Sox Acquire Porcello, Miley, and Masterson

[User Name]

Not sure why you whine all the time about other people whining when they are not even whining at all. Don't you get tired of this?

 

You don't get tired of holding a700's and fred's jockstrap and no one says anything. Also, as usual, you don't even make any goddamned sense. I'm not whining about people whining or anything of the sort. I am arguing that trading Bogaerts for an overpriced pitcher when there are options that cost only money is stupid, and would come back to bite the Sox on the ass. How hard is it to read the words that i am actually typing? Is there a language barrier problem here?

[iortiz]

Discussion is what forums are for. If you don't like people supporting their opinions about the Red Sox here, then you shouldn't be on a Red Sox forum.

 

yeah, I do not have problem when you talk about baseball but when you come up with your "trading him now would only give you license to whine about the fo when he becomes a star" and sarcastic comments, it is just pathetic man.

 

Unfortunately this is your modus operandi around here.

Edited December 16, 2014 by iortiz

[iortiz]

You don't get tired of holding a700's and fred's jockstrap and no one says anything. Also, as usual, you don't even make any goddamned sense. I'm not whining about people whining or anything of the sort. I am arguing that trading Bogaerts for an overpriced pitcher when there are options that cost only money is stupid, and would come back to bite the Sox on the ass. How hard is it to read the words that i am actually typing? Is there a language barrier problem here?

The only two No. 1s arms left are Shields and Scherzer. I do not see our FO landing Scherzer. Shields? it could be more realistic. The thing is that some of us think that we are two pitchers away to get it this done, not one, 2. I wanted Lester and Shields when the offseason began. Lester is gone due to the horrible management by our brilliant FO. so... the other arm if landed, most likely would be via trade and if you want a guy like Hamels, Cueto or recently JZ, you have to give some top value in the process... so XB would be my trade chip... I do not like this as you do, but our FO shitted the bed with Lester big time and if they want to land a 2nd solid arm, it will cost you top value most likely.

 

I think this is how some of us feel about our current pitching staff. While some think that the current staff is ok to go and/or with another solid arm, some of us think that we are 2 arms away. Again this is an opinion given the question marks and big Ifs in the current staff. Is it a terrible idea? well it is how I see the thing, and some as well.

Edited December 16, 2014 by iortiz

[User Name]

Whatever bro. Go agree with a700.

[iortiz]

Whatever bro. Go agree with a700.

 

I do not agree with him or Fred all the time. For example, In the same post, I said do not bring back Drew, and he did... I think that you are not looking at the whole picture, and you just are seeing what you want to see.

 

Damn, when the offseason began I said... please land pitching via FA since they apparently have money and some fat contracts will come off the books and I didn't want to give up top value like XB as well; unfortunately things have changed and if you want 2 top pitchers as I do, you most likely have to give up top value in the process.

 

What bothers me more is that landing Lester and Shields as I and some here suggested, was perfectly affordable and our FO shitted the bed.

Edited December 16, 2014 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

The only two No. 1s arms left are Shields and Scherzer. I do not see our FO landing Scherzer. Shields? it could be more realistic. The thing is that some of us think that we are two pitchers away to get it this done, not one, 2. I wanted Lester and Shields when the offseason began. Lester is gone due to the horrible management by our brilliant FO. so... the other arm if landed, most likely would be via trade and if you want a guy like Hamels, Cueto or recently JZ, you have to give some top value in the process... so XB would be my trade chip... I do not like this as you do, but our FO shitted the bed with Lester big time and if they want to land a 2nd solid arm, it will cost you top value most likely.

 

I think this is how some of us feel about our current pitching staff. While some think that the current staff is ok to go and/or with another solid arm, some of us think that we are 2 arms away. Again this is an opinion given the question marks and big Ifs in the current staff. Is it a terrible idea? well it is how I see the thing, and some as well.

He would rather complain about the behavior of others that he predicts will occur years down the road if hypothetical transactions were to occur. What a waste of time. That is why I have him on ignore. He just doesn't bring enough to the discourse to be bothered with all the confrontational insulting BS.

[iortiz]

He would rather complain about the behavior of others that he predicts will occur years down the road if hypothetical transactions were to occur. What a waste of time. That is why I have him on ignore. He just doesn't bring enough to the discourse to be bothered with all the confrontational insulting BS.

 

I do not think that you, Fred or somebody here want to trade XB or any top kid. Thing is, you have to, if you want a solid pitcher and this 2nd arm is not coming via FA, as some of us want. We have seen enough from our pitching staff in the recent years and some of us are tired of busts and do not feel comfortable at all with the addition of only one arm to the current rotation regardless the name. Since they shitted the bed with Lester and Scherzer apparently is out of the radar, the 2nd arm will be via trade if so and giving up top value in the process.

 

Unfortunately, at this point your idea of landing Hamels and Shields sounds to me like science fiction Ted LOL.

Edited December 16, 2014 by iortiz

[MJantomaso]

Why would anyone in their right mind trade XB for Hammels? Especially when there are BETTER options still available through FA.

[a700hitter]

I do not think that you, Fred or somebody here want to trade XB or any top kid. Thing is, you have to, if you want a solid pitcher, if the 2nd arm is not coming via FA. We have seen enough from our pitching staff in the recent years and some of us are tired of busts and do not feel comfortable at all with the addition of only one arm to the current rotation regardless the name. Since they shitted the bed with Lester and Scherzer apparently is out of the radar, the 2nd arm will be via trade if so and giving up top value in the process.

 

Unfortunately, at this point your idea of landing Hamels and Shields sounds to me like science fiction Ted LOL.

 

My wish to get Shields and Hamels is nothing more than wishful thinking. Realistically, landing Hamels would cost some big prospects. I'd prefer to part with XB instead of Betts. They are not going to hand him over for Cecchini and Brentz and a bucket of slop.

[iortiz]

Why would anyone in their right mind trade XB for Hammels? Especially when there are BETTER options still available through FA.

 

If you want 2 solid SPs as we are suggesting, wonder what options you are talking about? Shields? oks. Scherzer? I do not see them inking him, do u?. Who else?

[iortiz]

My wish to get Shields and Hamels is nothing more than wishful thinking. Realistically, landing Hamels would cost some big prospects. I'd prefer to part with XB instead of Betts. They are not going to hand him over for Cecchini and Brentz and a bucket of slop.

 

Plus, Probably he will cost more, when Shields and Scherzer are out of the market.

Edited December 16, 2014 by iortiz

[MJantomaso]

Looking at the past few years, Hammels has been absolutely s*** on by the American league. There are only 3 starts in the past 3 years where he has been able to go more that 6ip vs the AL. Not something I am too thrilled to sell the farm for.

[MJantomaso]

If you want 2 solid SPs as we are suggesting, wonder what options you are talking about? Shields? oks. Scherzer? I do not see them inking him, do u?. Who else?

 

Sign Shields and start the season with what we have. There are a s*** ton of pitchers available next offseason. Im not selling the franchise's future for Cole f***ing Hammels...I'm sorry

[iortiz]

Looking at the past few years, Hammels has been absolutely s*** on by the American league. There are only 3 starts in the past 3 years where he has been able to go more that 6ip vs the AL. Not something I am too thrilled to sell the farm for.

 

Santana is gone, but would u have preferred Santana as your number two and say Shields as your number one? I liked the idea as well.

 

If we really want Shields, we have to hurry up IMO, otherwise be prepared to see XB or other top prospect go if we want a No. 1.

 

BTW is it me or our FO apparently seem not that interested to get Shields.

[iortiz]

Sign Shields and start the season with what we have. There are a s*** ton of pitchers available next offseason. Im not selling the franchise's future for Cole f***ing Hammels...I'm sorry

 

Well in that scenario, a big IF will come around. Who is going to turn into your No. 2.?. IMHO None, and this is why I want an extra solid arm.

[example1]

Santana is gone, but would u have preferred Santana as your number two and say Shields as your number one? I liked the idea as well.

 

If we really want Shields, we have to hurry up IMO, otherwise be prepared to see XB or other top prospect go if we want a No. 1.

 

BTW is it me or our FO apparently seem not that interested to get Shields.

 

Shields is a workhorse who has thrown 200 IP for eight straight seasons. He should project to consistently have a 1.20ish WHIP and a 3.50ish ERA. That's really valuable, but he's not an ace in the traditional sense. He wouldn't be the world's strongest #1 but he could certainly anchor a decent staff. I would offer 4 x $19m (4/$76) and probably wouldn't get him. Pitching is just so expensive this year.

 

As for trading Xander, I don't see it. Bogaerts just has too much value to part with unless they got a truly elite player in his early-mid 20's, with a few years under his belt. Sale, Bumgarner, Felix (4 years ago), Matt Harvey, etc., Otherwise he's not going anywhere. For all the criticism he got last year there were definite moments where I could see what makes him pretty special. That said, it is risky to hold him in such high regard so as to not trade him for a guy like Cole Hamels. Hamels is a very good pitcher and this team could use him.

 

Hopefully they will find another direction to go. It would be foolish for Philly to really be holding out for a guy like Bogaerts if the Sox offered Barnes, Owens and Margot.

[iortiz]

Shields is a workhorse who has thrown 200 IP for eight straight seasons. He should project to consistently have a 1.20ish WHIP and a 3.50ish ERA. That's really valuable, but he's not an ace in the traditional sense. He wouldn't be the world's strongest #1 but he could certainly anchor a decent staff. I would offer 4 x $19m (4/$76) and probably wouldn't get him. Pitching is just so expensive this year.

 

As for trading Xander, I don't see it. Bogaerts just has too much value to part with unless they got a truly elite player in his early-mid 20's, with a few years under his belt. Sale, Bumgarner, Felix (4 years ago), Matt Harvey, etc., Otherwise he's not going anywhere. For all the criticism he got last year there were definite moments where I could see what makes him pretty special. That said, it is risky to hold him in such high regard so as to not trade him for a guy like Cole Hamels. Hamels is a very good pitcher and this team could use him.

 

Hopefully they will find another direction to go. It would be foolish for Philly to really be holding out for a guy like Bogaerts if the Sox offered Barnes, Owens and Margot.

 

Heeey example...how are u man?, been a while since the last time I talked to u here. Hopefully everything is oks with you.

 

We better add Shields, otherwise it will cost us top prospects if we go for a No. 1 and since we are not going for Scherzer.

 

The only thing, I think we all agree is that we just can not go like this.

[iortiz]

Also, I do not remember the last time when a top FA was a bargain; they are usually overpaid... it is what it is... so... show Shields the money already haha

[dupree]

This offseason as far as saying we are not in on Scherzer is kinda like the Yankees saying they are not in on anyone and swoop in a get top players. All journalist have been on every sports show and radio saying that the red sox are not going after him and won't shell out the money to get him. Well if they would shell out 135 for Lester and 120 for Sheilds why is it so far fetched to think that to get the #1 for years to come in Scherzer at say 7 years at 175. Why not. I know that's a s*** ton of money but think about it. Hes anyones game 1 starter, and coming out ahead in any series is basically priceless. Going to what User said earlier, It's Only Money. I like keeping our prospects as good as anyone, but sometimes you have to know when to fold em.

 

I like the idea of Jordan Zimmerman as much as anyone that has been mentioned this offseason. If he's available and Washington needs a second baseman if it takes Betts and Zim agrees to an extention I hope Ben pulls the trigger.

 

Also I think it's weird that everyone knows we need to #1 and the main man is Scherzer. The FO did s*** the bed in the Lester whole process but wouldn't it be the ultimate bitch slap to sign Scherzer and have Larry, Tom, and John saying f*** You John we went after a true #1. This FO is butt hurt now and they know the fan base is tired of them spending on the soccer team and going bargain high ceiling shopping on the baseball team starting pitching and hope the propects pan out and hope the fans drink the Kool aide. It may just be a pipe dream and it probably will be. But, I'd rather all the experts be like they are in on him than say no way in hell. Too big of need for the #1 ace and if they have spent this much on position players what the hell is the big deal with giving Max 25 million per to go out and give 17 - 20 wins per season and give us game one of the World Series. This team, FO, fans, and the city are not looking to just make a playoff appearance they are there to win it all. I hope in the next coming weeks that it shocks the world when the opening line in the paper is Max to the Sox.

[User Name]

I have actually read a couple mlb.com columnists predicting Scherzer to the Sox and theorizing that he was their target all along.

[User Name]

This offseason as far as saying we are not in on Scherzer is kinda like the Yankees saying they are not in on anyone and swoop in a get top players. All journalist have been on every sports show and radio saying that the red sox are not going after him and won't shell out the money to get him. Well if they would shell out 135 for Lester and 120 for Sheilds why is it so far fetched to think that to get the #1 for years to come in Scherzer at say 7 years at 175. Why not. I know that's a s*** ton of money but think about it. Hes anyones game 1 starter, and coming out ahead in any series is basically priceless. Going to what User said earlier, It's Only Money. I like keeping our prospects as good as anyone, but sometimes you have to know when to fold em.

 

I like the idea of Jordan Zimmerman as much as anyone that has been mentioned this offseason. If he's available and Washington needs a second baseman if it takes Betts and Zim agrees to an extention I hope Ben pulls the trigger.

 

Also I think it's weird that everyone knows we need to #1 and the main man is Scherzer. The FO did s*** the bed in the Lester whole process but wouldn't it be the ultimate bitch slap to sign Scherzer and have Larry, Tom, and John saying f*** You John we went after a true #1. This FO is butt hurt now and they know the fan base is tired of them spending on the soccer team and going bargain high ceiling shopping on the baseball team starting pitching and hope the propects pan out and hope the fans drink the Kool aide. It may just be a pipe dream and it probably will be. But, I'd rather all the experts be like they are in on him than say no way in hell. Too big of need for the #1 ace and if they have spent this much on position players what the hell is the big deal with giving Max 25 million per to go out and give 17 - 20 wins per season and give us game one of the World Series. This team, FO, fans, and the city are not looking to just make a playoff appearance they are there to win it all. I hope in the next coming weeks that it shocks the world when the opening line in the paper is Max to the Sox.

 

I agree with everything you say here except the trade scenario. You need a base of very good to elite controllable talent in order to compete consistently. That's something the seld-anointed old-timey and bas-english speaking gurus of this site refuse to understand.

[User Name]

Shields is a workhorse who has thrown 200 IP for eight straight seasons. He should project to consistently have a 1.20ish WHIP and a 3.50ish ERA. That's really valuable, but he's not an ace in the traditional sense. He wouldn't be the world's strongest #1 but he could certainly anchor a decent staff. I would offer 4 x $19m (4/$76) and probably wouldn't get him. Pitching is just so expensive this year.

 

As for trading Xander, I don't see it. Bogaerts just has too much value to part with unless they got a truly elite player in his early-mid 20's, with a few years under his belt. Sale, Bumgarner, Felix (4 years ago), Matt Harvey, etc., Otherwise he's not going anywhere. For all the criticism he got last year there were definite moments where I could see what makes him pretty special. That said, it is risky to hold him in such high regard so as to not trade him for a guy like Cole Hamels. Hamels is a very good pitcher and this team could use him.

 

Hopefully they will find another direction to go. It would be foolish for Philly to really be holding out for a guy like Bogaerts if the Sox offered Barnes, Owens and Margot.

 

Hamels and his hefty price tag are not worth a guy like Bogaerts.

[cp176]

So all of the scouts and analysts who see potential for superstar offense and adequate defense in XB are wrong, but the pundits here at talksox have him all figured out because of rookie struggles? You know what happens when you make stupid panic moves like that? Lance Berkman happens.

 

Yea - Kind of like this. I think that a good deal of our latest young talent has in fact been grossly overrated. I do believe XB will hit but adequate at ss just doesn't make it for me. If he can be dealt for a top quality arm, I would make that move in a heartbeat. If he remains in Boston, I will support him for as long as he is there. Discussion, not always anger based critiques of other opinions that you don't like, is in fact what forums are for.

[cp176]

In addition, I hope that I am wrong about XB. But you see I am and have been a fan of the Red Sox for a while. I'll offer my opinion well knowing what any opinion is worth. In the end, I won't be jumping ship. For that matter, I still hope Jackie Bradley can realize all of the potential that all of the scouts said he had. If he could hit, there would be no better option in cf. You don't need a power bat in center field. Hit just a little bit.

[Bellhorn04]

Sign Shields and start the season with what we have. There are a s*** ton of pitchers available next offseason. Im not selling the franchise's future for Cole f***ing Hammels...I'm sorry

 

I like your posts, but I'm deeply disappointed in your change of avatar. Please bring back Kate or something nicer to look at.

[a700hitter]

Yea - Kind of like this. I think that a good deal of our latest young talent has in fact been grossly overrated. I do believe XB will hit but adequate at ss just doesn't make it for me. If he can be dealt for a top quality arm, I would make that move in a heartbeat. If he remains in Boston, I will support him for as long as he is there. Discussion, not always anger based critiques of other opinions that you don't like, is in fact what forums are for.

I think XB still has a lot of value athough it is not as high as last offseason. I don't think that he is a good SS. His footwork and instincts are not good at all. Maybe that part of his game will come around, or maybe he will soon grow out of SS as many scouts have projected. If he does grow out of SS, there is a log jam at 3B with Panda. I have no dislike of XB. I just think it will cost a big time prospect to land Hamels and the Phils just traded Rollins. I'd rather keep Betts instead of XB if it comes down to parting with one or the other. I'd prefer to keep both of them, but I don't see us landing Hamels without including one of them. This type of discussion offends certain unbalanced posters. LOL!! Thankfully, most most of us (like you and I) can discuss this like adults.

[User Name]

Yea - Kind of like this. I think that a good deal of our latest young talent has in fact been grossly overrated. I do believe XB will hit but adequate at ss just doesn't make it for me. If he can be dealt for a top quality arm, I would make that move in a heartbeat. If he remains in Boston, I will support him for as long as he is there. Discussion, not always anger based critiques of other opinions that you don't like, is in fact what forums are for.

 

Bluntness and anger are very very different things. And the point stands. The Sox can hype their own prospects, like every other team, but when uninterested parties are doing the hyping, it's a good idea to listen.

[Palodios]

This team needs another top pitcher, and I still think improving the infield defense at SS needs to be a priority with all the groundballers.

 

Trading Bogaerts for Hamels could come back and bite this team, but if you get the Phillies to eat 20-30 million to make the trade, and get Hamels for 70 million/90 million vested, that saves payroll space for the big wave of pitching coming next year. Bogaerts for Hamels straight up makes zero sense unless they sweeten the pot.

[User Name]

And they've been unwilling to do so. The Phillies' GM is notably difficult to negotiate with.

[mvp 78]

And they've been unwilling to do so. The Phillies' GM is notably difficult to negotiate with.

 

To the detriment of his own team even.