Sox Acquire Porcello, Miley, and Masterson

[iortiz]

You are saying that all it takes is knowledge of the game, and business acumen to succeed as a MLB owner/manager. John Henry is a billionaire, far more successful than 99% of most people with MBA's. He hired people around him that he believes will help this team win games and make money. If a self-made billionaire has only had mixed success, why do you believe arm-chair GMs with MBAs are going to be any more successful?

 

haha I have never said that he is not successful business man. What I'm saying is that a decent MBA professional should be capable to run a professional baseball team as well since MBA professionals are supposed to be prepared to run any business regardless the industry or the size, that's all.

Edited December 17, 2014 by iortiz

[Palodios]

haha I have never said that he is not successful business man. What I'm saying is that a decent MBA professional should be able to run a professional baseball team as well since MBA professionals are supposed to be prepared to run any business regardless the industry or the size, that's all.

 

Fair enough. I would argue that there is a big difference between being able to run a business successfully, and excel at one for consistent periods of time. Sometimes you make mistakes, but even worse is when bad luck happens. Here's an example : How many people do you know have sizeable investments in oil? It seemed like an extremely safe and profitable bet, but not so much now. Oil might as well be Jackie Bradley Jr. or Carl Crawford.

[iortiz]

Fair enough. I would argue that there is a big difference between being able to run a business successfully, and excel at one for consistent periods of time. Sometimes you make mistakes, but even worse is when bad luck happens. Here's an example : How many people do you know have sizeable investments in oil? It seemed like an extremely safe and profitable bet, but not so much now. Oil might as well be Jackie Bradley Jr. or Carl Crawford.

 

I would say that there is a big difference between CREATE a business and RUN a business.

 

Most of MBA professionals should be capable to run any kind of business like baseball or chemical companies, on the other hand only few MBA professionals are capable to create successful business from the ground up like probably JH did.

Edited December 17, 2014 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

You are saying that all it takes is knowledge of the game, and business acumen to succeed as a MLB owner/manager. John Henry is a billionaire, far more successful than 99% of most people with MBA's. He hired people around him that he believes will help this team win games and make money. If a self-made billionaire has only had mixed success, why do you believe arm-chair GMs with MBAs are going to be any more successful?

Baseball is not a business that needs geniuses or a masters of the business world to be successful. There are only 30 franchises. Expanding the number of franchises is up to the owners. They own 1 of 30 franchises for the highest level of professional baseball which is still America's Favorite Pastime. If you are a great baseball player who wants to reach the top of his profession, he must play for one of those thirty teams. There is no other choice. Any article of clothing or any other item with a team name or logo must pay licensing fees to be shared equally by these 30 teams. National Television networks pay the 30 teams equally to broadcast games. They have no competition. The 30 teams compete with each other and their profits are largely dictated by the size of their market and loyalty of their fanbase-- two things over which owners have no control. Baseball is a business which fits perfectly within Warren Buffett's investment strategy. His top principle for investing is:

 

"to buy stock in businesses that are so wonderful that an idiot can run them. Because sooner or later, one will."

 

Baseball is that type of business. Drunks, jocks, drunken jocks, history majors, and rich kids inheriting their daddy's business have been successfully running the business of baseball for more thn a hundred years. Is John Henry a genius and great businessman? He might be, but those are not skills needed to run a successful baseball team.

 

Oh, and by the way, he ran his investment firm into the ground and had to shut the doors.

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/11/10/red-sox-owner-john-henry-shutter-investment-firm-that-helped-build-sports-empire/Qr1dS62xlk7UJB23uCjhAL/story.html

Edited December 17, 2014 by a700hitter

[cp176]

Ah - Looks to me like a whole new thread.

[iortiz]

Baseball is not a business that needs geniuses or a masters of the business world to be successful. There are only 30 franchises. Expanding the number of franchises is up to the owners. They own 1 of 30 franchises for the highest level of professional baseball which is still America's Favorite Pastime. If you are a great baseball player who wants to reach the top of his profession, he must play for one of those thirty teams. There is no other choice. Any article of clothing or any other item with a team name or logo must pay licensing fees to be shared equally by these 30 teams. Television networks pay the 30 teams equally to broadcast games. They have no competition. The 30 teams compete with each other and their profits are largely dictated by the size of their market and loyalty of their fanbase-- two things over which owners have no control. Baseball is a business which fits perfectly within Warren Buffett's investment strategy. His top principle for investing is:

 

"to buy stock in businesses that are so wonderful that an idiot can run them. Because sooner or later, one will."

 

Baseball is that type of business. Drunks, jocks, drunken jocks, history majors, and rich kids inheriting their daddy's business have been successfully running the business of baseball for more thn a hundred years. Is John Henry a genius and great businessman? He might be, but those are not skills needs to run a successful baseball team.

 

Oh, and by the way, he ran his investment firm into the ground and had to shut the doors.

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/11/10/red-sox-owner-john-henry-shutter-investment-firm-that-helped-build-sports-empire/Qr1dS62xlk7UJB23uCjhAL/story.html

As I said, Beyond the business operations, I have seen better baseball ideas in this board than some executed by our FO.

 

Happens the same in soccer, some people specially players are always trying to sell us that the sport industry is rocket science, and it is not.

[a700hitter]

As I said, Beyond the business operations, I have seen better baseball ideas in this board than some executed by our FO.

 

Happens the same in soccer, some people specially players are always trying to sell us that the sport industry is rocket science, and it is not.

Nevermind Rocket Science. It is not even science.

[iortiz]

Nevermind Rocket Science. It is not even science.

 

LOL, yeah!

 

I think that if they round this team with at least one No1. SP, they could be competitive given the division. Also, Hopefully one of this combo or Buch or Kelly turn into a solid No. 2 and the others eat the innings that everybody is projecting.

Edited December 17, 2014 by iortiz

[Palodios]

Oh, and by the way, he ran his investment firm into the ground and had to shut the doors.

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/11/10/red-sox-owner-john-henry-shutter-investment-firm-that-helped-build-sports-empire/Qr1dS62xlk7UJB23uCjhAL/story.html

 

It sounds like he moved his attention to baseball and lost interest in the firm, and investors moved onto other firms. I wouldn't call that running it into the ground.

[a700hitter]

It sounds like he moved his attention to baseball and lost interest in the firm, and investors moved onto other firms. I wouldn't call that running it into the ground.

It would have been smarter business to sell the firm while it was big and robust rather than to shut the doors after you have run it into the ground. Sorry Pal, but there is no good way to spin this business story. Attributing the collapse of a billion dollar business to a loss of interest isn't a valid excuse. It's an indictment of him.

[Palodios]

It would have been smarter business to sell the firm while it was big and robust rather than to shut the doors after you have run it into the ground. Sorry Pal, but there is no good way to spin this business story. Attributing the collapse of a billion dollar business to a loss of interest isn't a valid excuse. It's an indictment of him.

 

When you make your first billion, let's revisit this.

[a700hitter]

When you make your first billion, let's revisit this.

Donald Trump is a billionaire and he is no genius either. Accretion of personal wealth does not equate to being smart.

[Palodios]

Donald Trump is a billionaire and he is no genius either. Accretion of personal wealth does not equate to being smart.

 

Donald Trump's father was a millionaire. John Henry's father was a farmer.

[a700hitter]

Donald Trump's father was a millionaire. John Henry's father was a farmer.

Yes and all farmers are poor.

[a700hitter]

But even if JH is a genius investor with a bankrupt investment firm, those skills are not needed for and don't transfer to baseball about which he really knows little.

[Palodios]

But even if JH is a genius investor with a bankrupt investment firm, those skills are not needed for and don't transfer to baseball about which he really knows little.

 

When you make your first billion, lets revisit this.

[a700hitter]

When you make your first billion, lets revisit this.

 

Sure, I will not disagree with JH until I make my first billion if you don't disagree with me until your net worth surpasses mine.;-)

[seabeachfred]

As I said, Beyond the business operations, I have seen better baseball ideas in this board than some executed by our FO.

 

Happens the same in soccer, some people specially players are always trying to sell us that the sport industry is rocket science, and it is not.

 

Well the guy has had some success in the baseball world. Whether it was dumb luck, talent or the starts aligning just right, the Red Sox have won three World Series since Henry took over in 2002, that's three in 13 seasons---not too shabby. OTOH, we have seen some mistakes made in the personnel department and our failure to sign some of our free agents, not to mention bad signings. I can only speak for myself on this, but I have to admit I gotten a little, what would be the better term, selfish, greedy, or entitled and maybe a little of all three. One thing I do believe in, though, and that the Red Sox are a big market team, should think like one and should contend for the playoffs every year. There should be no 2012's or 2014's, and it's up to ownership to make sure that never happens again.

[iortiz]

Well the guy has had some success in the baseball world. Whether it was dumb luck, talent or the starts aligning just right, the Red Sox have won three World Series since Henry took over in 2002, that's three in 13 seasons---not too shabby. OTOH, we have seen some mistakes made in the personnel department and our failure to sign some of our free agents, not to mention bad signings. I can only speak for myself on this, but I have to admit I gotten a little, what would be the better term, selfish, greedy, or entitled and maybe a little of all three. One thing I do believe in, though, and that the Red Sox are a big market team, should think like one and should contend for the playoffs every year. There should be no 2012's or 2014's, and it's up to ownership to make sure that never happens again.

... and the the 2011 epic collapse.

 

Aside 2013, most of our issues in recent years have been the lack and the ability to assemble good pitching staffs. Sometimes it was the BP. Sometimes it was the SP. Sometimes it was the lack of depth. Sometimes we went with the low-risk/high-reward mentality which turned into disasters, and sometimes it was the combination of some of the above.

 

Thing is, Since 2011 I've seen this debate over and over again, and for each pitching situation turned into a nightmare and made by our FO, I saw here a lot of brilliant and specific ideas/solutions of how those situations could have been addressed before those decisions were taken by the FO (like the Lester thing). All I'm saying is that you do not need to be a super genius in order to emit an opinion of how this team should be assembled, since our FO has shitted the bed big time as well so many times that I just can not remember how many. They are not the twelve olympians who have everything figured it out and immune to questions and explications by those who load their wallets. Funny thing is that some here and there still think that our FO is a deity or something just because we won 3 WS.

 

When we entered into the 2015 offseason we all knew all along AGAIN, that we needed solid SP, at least 2, IMO. When you see the recent acquisitions and see how they lost Lester, I say to myself, oh boy, here we go again. Sure, There's still time to round the team but considering the recent past hopefully this is not one of those years when I said, I told u.

Edited December 17, 2014 by iortiz

[mvp 78]

2013 was basically the same pitching staff as 2011, 2012 and 2014. Aside from health, what really was the difference? Juan Nieves?

[cp176]

I would like to see a team that is competitive every year. There are various ways to do it obviously. I am thinking that the current makeup of this year's team does give us a little better chance than we had last year. In order to do it, you do need strong healthy arms. I do not need a World Series winner every year but I don't want to be hanging my head by the first of July.

[Palodios]

Sure, I will not disagree with JH until I make my first billion if you don't disagree with me until your net worth surpasses mine.;-)

 

I would be very willing to make that deal.

[a700hitter]

I would be very willing to make that deal.

Fine. When you think you have reached that point, we can meet in Boston for a drink at the Manadarin Oriental to compare our financial statements. If you fall short, you pick up the tab.

[vjcsmoke]

So back to the pitching staff. Does anybody else covet Zimmerman of the Nationals and what would it take to pry him away? I know there's only 1 year of contract control left but I feel this guy is coming into his prime and would be a true staff ace if the Red Sox could get him.

[mvp 78]

So back to the pitching staff. Does anybody else covet Zimmerman of the Nationals and what would it take to pry him away? I know there's only 1 year of contract control left but I feel this guy is coming into his prime and would be a true staff ace if the Red Sox could get him.

 

Depends on asking price. He's only got 1 year left under contract.

[cp176]

Donald Trump is a billionaire and he is no genius either. Accretion of personal wealth does not equate to being smart.

 

Just out of curiosity, don't you really think that it has to do with what a person's definition of what smart is? Some of the most highly educated people I have ever known, were also the biggest numbskulls I have ever seen. Tough to judge someone until you have actually sat in their seat. I think that you two need to put a little more than just a drink on the line - come on. It's a slow baseball day isn't it. With respect to our beloved Sox and their owners, our opinions are fun to read but ultimately they will spend their money the way they want to. On a baseball note - If you amass a pitching staff that encourages a great deal of ground balls then you better have a ss than can make the plays.

[Palodios]

On a baseball note - If you amass a pitching staff that encourages a great deal of ground balls then you better have a ss than can make the plays.

 

I have been saying this for some time as well. I'm wondering if the Red Sox are looking to package Xander for a controllable ace, ie a Sale/Harvey type.

[Palodios]

Fine. When you think you have reached that point, we can meet in Boston for a drink at the Manadarin Oriental to compare our financial statements. If you fall short, you pick up the tab.

 

It'll take me a few years to get there. I was more interested in the other deal -- I won't disagree with you if you don't disagree with JH

[iortiz]

Depends on asking price. He's only got 1 year left under contract.

 

If we want to trade a No. 1 like Cueto, JZ, Hamels, Sale, etc, it will always cost us a package around a top prospect(s) or a very good player. If the FO is thinking going that way, wonder what are they willing to give up?.

 

I do not like that way at all mostly if we are going to only one arm and since out there still are a couple of FAs. If the scenario were going for two arms as I have been suggesting I would explore that way, though.

Edited December 17, 2014 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

It'll take me a few years to get there. I was more interested in the other deal -- I won't disagree with you if you don't disagree with JH

Oh, okay. LOL!! I'd still like to meet for a drink when I am up there this coming season. We can meet before a game at Remy's instead of the Mandarin. It would be a blast to meet have an offsite TS meeting with you, SFF and others in the area who want to join.