Middlebrooks gone?

[Spudboy]

Dealing WMB would be a huge mistake at this point. He has too much upside and needs a chance to work it all out. Power bats are a premium feature in any lineup. I say play him until he either shows his stuff ( possibly 30+ HR power ) or he plays himself out of the lineup ( a good reason to have Drew around ).

[seabeachfred]

Dealing WMB would be a huge mistake at this point. He has too much upside and needs a chance to work it all out. Power bats are a premium feature in any lineup. I say play him until he either shows his stuff ( possibly 30+ HR power ) or he plays himself out of the lineup ( a good reason to have Drew around ).

 

That's how I feel Spudboy. You don't jettison a player capable of hitting 30 or more homers playing third base just because he had a sophomore slump that slowed him down. He has tremendous upside as does Bogaerts and these young guys have to play and while it is only my opinion, I believe both of them can have big futures in Boston if they are given a chance and left alone to develop. Drew isn't worth big money and our friend Dojii was willing to pay him $25 million for two years when he is worth barely $7 million a year and then only if he was a utility player or fill in or jack of all trades. Personally think if we hold back Bogaerts we will regret it deeply and if we scuttle Middlebrooks we will rue that day.

[User Name]

Yet they can get Drew with neither of those scenarios happening. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

Also, how is he "barely worth 7 million"? That is the definition of nonsense. His 3.4 WAR was worth 16.9 million last year per Fangraphs which, adjusting for the 20% overvalue people who know a lot more about the WAR formula than i do assign to the dollar value, it averages out around 13+ million, all of this even though he missed time then was severely limited by concussion issues during a portion of the season. Where do you come up with this stuff Fred?

[sk7326]

That's how I feel Spudboy. You don't jettison a player capable of hitting 30 or more homers playing third base just because he had a sophomore slump that slowed him down. He has tremendous upside as does Bogaerts and these young guys have to play and while it is only my opinion, I believe both of them can have big futures in Boston if they are given a chance and left alone to develop. Drew isn't worth big money and our friend Dojii was willing to pay him $25 million for two years when he is worth barely $7 million a year and then only if he was a utility player or fill in or jack of all trades. Personally think if we hold back Bogaerts we will regret it deeply and if we scuttle Middlebrooks we will rue that day.

 

Drew proved he is a quality starter at SS last year. Jhonny Peralta got $13M a year, so that is Drew's floor. He can hit - in streaks - and his approach prevents the slumps from being too terrible. His defense is outstanding, so much so he remained playable in October despite being useless at the plate.

 

The fangraphs $/WAR is a global average thing and ignores the realities that every market has its own business decisions to make ... that said, a 3-win player is worth well more than $7M. Now, on the bright side, there are 1300-1400 plate appearances that can be distributed between Drew, Bogaerts and Middlebrooks ... and sort of let the development of each guy sort of hash out the AB shares. With Bogaerts and Middlebrooks on pre-arb contracts, there is no financial pressure to solve that problem, and with Middlebrooks' trade value being at its lowest there is a lot of incentive to have him play his stock back up again. Because of Bogaerts' ability to play 3B, and Drew's near total incompetence against lefties - there is plenty of room for everyone for a while at least.

[Spudboy]

Drew proved he is a quality starter at SS last year. Jhonny Peralta got $13M a year, so that is Drew's floor. He can hit - in streaks - and his approach prevents the slumps from being too terrible. His defense is outstanding, so much so he remained playable in October despite being useless at the plate.

 

The fangraphs $/WAR is a global average thing and ignores the realities that every market has its own business decisions to make ... that said, a 3-win player is worth well more than $7M. Now, on the bright side, there are 1300-1400 plate appearances that can be distributed between Drew, Bogaerts and Middlebrooks ... and sort of let the development of each guy sort of hash out the AB shares. With Bogaerts and Middlebrooks on pre-arb contracts, there is no financial pressure to solve that problem, and with Middlebrooks' trade value being at its lowest there is a lot of incentive to have him play his stock back up again. Because of Bogaerts' ability to play 3B, and Drew's near total incompetence against lefties - there is plenty of room for everyone for a while at least.

 

 

Excellent post.

[rjortiz]

Drew proved he is a quality starter at SS last year. Jhonny Peralta got $13M a year, so that is Drew's floor. He can hit - in streaks - and his approach prevents the slumps from being too terrible. His defense is outstanding, so much so he remained playable in October despite being useless at the plate.

 

The fangraphs $/WAR is a global average thing and ignores the realities that every market has its own business decisions to make ... that said, a 3-win player is worth well more than $7M. Now, on the bright side, there are 1300-1400 plate appearances that can be distributed between Drew, Bogaerts and Middlebrooks ... and sort of let the development of each guy sort of hash out the AB shares. With Bogaerts and Middlebrooks on pre-arb contracts, there is no financial pressure to solve that problem, and with Middlebrooks' trade value being at its lowest there is a lot of incentive to have him play his stock back up again. Because of Bogaerts' ability to play 3B, and Drew's near total incompetence against lefties - there is plenty of room for everyone for a while at least.

 

Peralta didn't have compensation attached to him, and the numbers say that he's been a better fielder than Drew. Wildly inconsistent with the bat, but has had some good offensive seasons. He also took away the only landing spot that made any sense for Drew as a SS. Also, the Cardinals probably overpaid for Peralta. How many other teams would have gone that high for a PED user, and also needed a SS? Drew's value might be $13 million, but he'll only land that kind of AAV on a short-term deal. It's not his fault. He just is a free agency where only two teams might be interested, and one of those want him at 2B. If Toronto offers him 2/26, he should take it, because that's probably the best offer on the table.

 

I should add that I think you were refuting the $7 million comment. I agree that that is way too low of an offer, but I don't think the Peralta comparison is fair. I do agree about playing time distribution, but I think it's a moot point, because the Red Sox don't have the money to make him a competitive offer. I think they only have $9.2 million under the luxury tax, which won't get it done. I think he goes to Toronto for about 2/24.

Edited January 22, 2014 by rjortiz

[SoxSport]

For the Boras money Drew will get, he's a poor investment for the Red Sox because they don't need him as a full time position player. It comes down to that. And that's the way GMs think.

[iortiz]

While Drew would be a good addition, I want to see WM and XB playing everyday for once and for all. Also, while I want to be in POs again, I am more interested in watch what JBJ, XB, WM and probably Vasquez if called can bring to the table. If our former players perform close as expected, the future is set.

[rjortiz]

For the Boras money Drew will get, he's a poor investment for the Red Sox because they don't need him as a full time position player. It comes down to that. And that's the way GMs think.

 

For $10 million, he'd probably provides enough value playing 108 games. If he were a 2 WAR player it would be a good signing, and he'd also be nice insurance in case WMB flops.

 

I've been beating this dead horse for the last week, but it's a moot point. The Red Sox don't have the space under the luxury tax, and $10 million for one year won't get the deal done. I think even the people who want Drew back acknowledge this. They are simply arguing that if he's available that low, he'd be worth it, and it's hard to disagree with that. If WMB and Bogaerts are lighting it up, they can trade him for something of use. If WMB, or Bogaerts gets hurt, he's a great option to back up. If he has another monster year, the Sox can slap him the QO again. If he completely bombs next year, it's only a one year deal. There's no downside to this. The only wrong argument was from Dojji who wanted to give Drew 2/26, which would put the team over the tax, and could damage Bogaerts long term stay at SS. He was the one advocating that Drew should get 3/45, so take his arguments as you will.

 

The only possible argument I can think of against this move is that maybe the Red Sox want enough room to make a big splash at the deadline. I can go along with that line of thinking.

Edited January 22, 2014 by rjortiz

[sk7326]

For $10 million, he'd probably provides enough value playing 108 games. If he were a 2 WAR player it would be a good signing, and he'd also be nice insurance in case WMB flops.

 

I've been beating this dead horse for the last week, but it's a moot point. The Red Sox don't have the space under the luxury tax, and $10 million for one year won't get the deal done. I think even the people who want Drew back acknowledge this. They are simply arguing that if he's available that low, he'd be worth it, and it's hard to disagree with that. If WMB and Bogaerts are lighting it up, they can trade him for something of use. If WMB, or Bogaerts gets hurt, he's a great option to back up. If he has another monster year, the Sox can slap him the QO again. If he completely bombs next year, it's only a one year deal. There's no downside to this. The only wrong argument was from Dojji who wanted to give Drew 2/26, which would put the team over the tax, and could damage Bogaerts long term stay at SS. He was the one advocating that Drew should get 3/45, so take his arguments as you will.

 

The only possible argument I can think of against this move is that maybe the Red Sox want enough room to make a big splash at the deadline. I can go along with that line of thinking.

 

If the wins are significant, they pay for themselves, certainly enough to go over a soft cap by a little bit. This ain't the NFL and the Red Sox have much more flexibility than the Rays do. I think any hitch with Drew is a one year one - both sides would prefer that. Also - and this is relevant, he is a legitimate trade asset if signed at a reasonable rate. If you want to get under whatever budgetary apron that makes you happy (and it is entirely their choice, not the law), you can move him later in the season for a bag of baseballs (though hopefully more).

[Behindenemylines]

I think Drew turned down the Sox best offer (14 mil). Bogaerts and WMB start the season at SS and 3B for the Sox.

[SoxSport]

I figure the Yankees will sign Drew. He's bound to get sucked up by their huge YES Network free agent vacuum cleaner. Plus they only have to give up their 39th draft pick, having signed so many free agents.

 

I just found out their MF YES network is in my cable package. I'm actually paying for their FA gluttony, and I don't live remotely close to NY.

 

It's what makes possible those multi-million dollar salaries in sports. We are all paying for it.

[BSN07]

Only way Drew comes back is if they trade a SP imo. Other than that I don't see them breaking the LT for him. Edited January 23, 2014 by BSN07

[rjortiz]

If the wins are significant, they pay for themselves, certainly enough to go over a soft cap by a little bit. This ain't the NFL and the Red Sox have much more flexibility than the Rays do. I think any hitch with Drew is a one year one - both sides would prefer that. Also - and this is relevant, he is a legitimate trade asset if signed at a reasonable rate. If you want to get under whatever budgetary apron that makes you happy (and it is entirely their choice, not the law), you can move him later in the season for a bag of baseballs (though hopefully more).

 

That makes sense. The Red Sox luxury tax rate reset after last year, so they wouldn't be taxed very much at all.

[seabeachfred]

That makes sense. The Red Sox luxury tax rate reset after last year, so they wouldn't be taxed very much at all.

 

Correct me if you think I'm wrong but I believe the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry will be hotter than ever this coming season. It has to be because we know why they went on another ridiculous spending spree this winter. It must eat at their innards to see the Red Sox on top of the baseball world while they're sucking wind. I hope we really ream the hell out of them this season.

[SoxSport]

Most of us can breathe a sigh of relief--maybe. The MF Yankees are rumored to be thinking about signing Drew.

[Bellhorn04]

Most of us can breathe a sigh of relief--maybe. The MF Yankees are rumored to be thinking about signing Drew.

 

I can't see that being good news for us.

[User Name]

I can't see that being good news for us.

 

But then again, you're not an idiot.....

[Palodios]

Most of us can breathe a sigh of relief--maybe. The MF Yankees are rumored to be thinking about signing Drew.

 

Has SoxSport been a Yankee fan all this time? So many things make sense to me right now.

[Whatsinaname]

Most of us can breathe a sigh of relief--maybe. The MF Yankees are rumored to be thinking about signing Drew.

 

I'd be happy for them to sign JD Drew and they can go after Willy Mo Pena while they're at it.

[BSN07]

Correct me if you think I'm wrong but I believe the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry will be hotter than ever this coming season. It has to be because we know why they went on another ridiculous spending spree this winter. It must eat at their innards to see the Red Sox on top of the baseball world while they're sucking wind. I hope we really ream the hell out of them this season.

 

After the Sox down 2012 the whole rivalry angle seem to level off a bit this season. I expect with the Sox winning it all and the Yankees implementing their doomsday reaction plan, I expect the media to be back behind the "greatest rivalry" in sports mumbo jumbo before each and every Yanks-Sox series this year.

[BSN07]

Has SoxSport been a Yankee fan all this time? So many things make sense to me right now.

 

The Yes network has moved in and occupied SoxSports home and started the conversion process while also, taking all his money, impregnating his wife and kicking his dog..

[mvp 78]

The Yes network has moved in and occupied SoxSports home and started the conversion process while also, taking all his money, impregnating his wife and kicking his dog..

 

Good on them. It's tough impregnating octogenarians.

[a700hitter]

Has SoxSport been a Yankee fan all this time? So many things make sense to me right now.

I have to laugh that when a poster doesn't fall in line with the conventional wisdom Red Sox Nation, posters jump to the conclusion that he must be a Yankee fan. It's like the people that put the tag "miracle" on everything they can't understand or explain. LOL!!

[Palodios]

I have to laugh that when a poster doesn't fall in line with the conventional wisdom Red Sox Nation, posters jump to the conclusion that he must be a Yankee fan. It's like the people that put the tag "miracle" on everything they can't understand or explain. LOL!!

 

To paraphrase what he said "Hey -- a good player is joining the Yankees instead of the Red Sox! Hooray!"

 

That is not going against conventional wisdom. That is going against common sense... unless he is a Yankee fan.

[User Name]

Palodios, common sense is not a common trait around here.

[Palodios]

Palodios, common sense is not a common trait around here.

 

It tends to be hit or miss. I just found that post to be a particularly large miss.

[a700hitter]

To paraphrase what he said "Hey -- a good player is joining the Yankees instead of the Red Sox! Hooray!"

 

That is not going against conventional wisdom. That is going against common sense... unless he is a Yankee fan.

LOL!! Fans are often emotional and don't make sense. I was just laughing that you were so confused trying to make sense of his statement that you resorted to the TalkSox version of the Race Card in politics. Let me just say tongue in cheek that as with the race card in politics, using the "he must be a Yankee fan" card for everything we don't understand cheapens the true meaning of the accusation.

[Palodios]

LOL!! Fans are often emotional and don't make sense. I was just laughing that you were so confused trying to make sense of his statement that you resorted to the TalkSox version of the Race Card in politics. Let me just say tongue in cheek that as with the race card in politics, using the "he must be a Yankee fan" card for everything we don't understand cheapens the true meaning of the accusation.

 

In all fairness, I don't pull the race card often. No one should be happy about good Red Sox players going to the Yankees, and no Red Sox fans should consider Jeter their favorite player. Those are the only times I can think of that I have used it

[a700hitter]

In all fairness, I don't pull the race card often. No one should be happy about good Red Sox players going to the Yankees, and no Red Sox fans should consider Jeter their favorite player. Those are the only times I can think of that I have used it

Fair enough. It should only be used judiciously.