Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Elktonnick]

I don't see it like that. I see it as he's got 2 years left, and even if he is ok the next couple years he's looking at least at a Mark Buerhle type contract on the FA market. It depends on what they plan for the final years of Lesters deal. If they don't see themselves in contention in the next 2 years there's not much point in having Lester be the best pitcher on a losing team as his value falls as he approaches free agency.

 

KC on the other hand is looking like they are trying to build some momentum and win sooner rather then later. Adding an experienced LHP at the top of the rotation for at least the next 2 years(I think if they wanted to the could spend some $ to extend him) looks mighty tempting.

 

As for the Red Sox motivations. The team is in some sort of rebuilding mode and adding a cost controlled player of Myers offensive potential is extremely tempting. They would be moving Lester for a top 3 MiLB prospect. If they were shopping him for a bag of balls, I could see it being more of a get him outta town move.

 

IMO this is a smart baseball move to get a young potential middle of the order power bat at a time when teams seem to be locking these type of players up long term and not allowing them to hit FA.

 

If they thought he were ever likely to be a nbr 1 they'd never trade him for a prospect no matter how hyped that prospect was. If this ever comes to pass then (And that's a big if) I'd say the FO has decided to clear the team of all its problem personalities from a year ago i.e. Youkilis, Shoppach, Beckett etc. The only one that would remain is that slug Lackey who may be impossible to move, yet.

[BSN07]

The Mets offered David Wright a six-year, $100MM contract extension yesterday, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports. Wright prefers a deal of at least seven years, and he is expected to decline New York’s offer, according to Rosenthal.

 

If he turns that down then I would expect the Mets to shop him. I'm not sure how many teams would be willing to offer a 7 year extension though. 6/100M seems right when compared to Zimmerman and I guess to some extent Longoria. I wonder if he just wants out of Queens but isn't saying anything publicly?

 

I bring it up because I'm sure if he turns down the offer the trade rumors will start swirling and the Sox are sure to be mentioned eventually.

 

I kind of like the idea of having Wright at 3B and moving Middlebrooks to 1B. But I don't like the idea of the extension he's going to want. And a one year rental doesn't make a lot of sense.

[jung]

David Wright is a pretty popular Met. I doubt he can get anything like that deal elsewhere.

[Lucienbel]

I am not surprised that KC would dip its toes in the water but I would not do this deal if I were KC. It would be a stretch for them to believe they had the answer to Lester's issues. At least we can hope that Farrell has the key.

 

It will likely be half way through 2013 before Lester can really draw anything interesting in trade.

 

Even if he does start drawing decent value on the trade market, would you really want to let him go? He's one of the more solid pitchers in the game when he's good and it's not like they come around that often. Maybe he isn't quite good enough to be your 1 in the AL East, but if he slots in at 2 all of a sudden he's looking really good.

[BSN07]

If they thought he were ever likely to be a nbr 1 they'd never trade him for a prospect no matter how hyped that prospect was. If this ever comes to pass then (And that's a big if) I'd say the FO has decided to clear the team of all its problem personalities from a year ago i.e. Youkilis, Shoppach, Beckett etc. The only one that would remain is that slug Lackey who may be impossible to move, yet.

 

They would trade him if they don't see themselves contending in the 2 years Lester has left on his deal. Which at this point seems reasonable. They also would have to take into consideration the likelihood they will extend Lester beyond his current deal. When he hits the market( I don't see Lester taking another team friendly deal before he hits FA) he's going to get a Buerhle-CJ Wilson type deal. That's something the Sox might not want to commit. So if they don't feel like they will be contending in the next 2 years and don't envision themselves re-signing Lester, then it's not out of the question they would move him in the right deal. And for a kid like Myers it's really close to the right kind of deal.

 

I do agree with you on Lackey. I think as soon as he builds some sort of value he will be gone.

[Elktonnick]

They would trade him if they don't see themselves contending in the 2 years Lester has left on his deal. Which at this point seems reasonable. They also would have to take into consideration the likelihood they will extend Lester beyond his current deal. When he hits the market( I don't see Lester taking another team friendly deal before he hits FA) he's going to get a Buerhle-CJ Wilson type deal. That's something the Sox might not want to commit. So if they don't feel like they will be contending in the next 2 years and don't envision themselves re-signing Lester, then it's not out of the question they would move him in the right deal. And for a kid like Myers it's really close to the right kind of deal.

 

I do agree with you on Lackey. I think as soon as he builds some sort of value he will be gone.

 

I don't think it the two years remaining on Lester or his future signability are the issue with the Red Sox. His attitude and the steady deterioration in his skills are though. They are real and more immediate. If KC makes they deal (and I am not saying they will) it will be because they believe a change in scenery are the ticket to save his career. The Royals need to make a splash and picking up Lester for two years might be one answer.

 

BTW next year is crucial for Lester. Another year like last year and he won't sniff big money again.

[Orange Juiced]

They would trade him if they don't see themselves contending in the 2 years Lester has left on his deal. Which at this point seems reasonable. They also would have to take into consideration the likelihood they will extend Lester beyond his current deal. When he hits the market( I don't see Lester taking another team friendly deal before he hits FA) he's going to get a Buerhle-CJ Wilson type deal. That's something the Sox might not want to commit. So if they don't feel like they will be contending in the next 2 years and don't envision themselves re-signing Lester, then it's not out of the question they would move him in the right deal. And for a kid like Myers it's really close to the right kind of deal.

 

I do agree with you on Lackey. I think as soon as he builds some sort of value he will be gone.

 

Maybe. The thing about Lackey is that he does have a pretty solid career track record, guys often do better after coming off TJ surgery, and his contract is actually not that bad right now, given the $500k vesting option for 2015 thanks to his injury. He's basically on a 3-year, $31 million deal.

 

Well, actually, maybe that's why they will be able to move him. Some team probably could use a guy like that and perhaps they can get something of real value for him.

[SoxSport]

I'm not oversold on prospects, but this proposed deal strikes me as an opportunity for the Sox to get an outfielder who is better than any that has come out of their farm system in a long time. He's the RHd power bat they've been missing. As for Lester, he's coming off a bad year and his contract makes him expendable. I'd like to see Morales given a shot to replace him. Plus they have other prospects who may surprise if given the opportunity. And they can use Lester's money to sign another starter--if they don't wait too long. They do have a propensity to wait for the leftovers.

 

I expect Lackey to come back better, though it might take a half a season.

[Elktonnick]

I'm not oversold on prospects, but this proposed deal strikes me as an opportunity for the Sox to get an outfielder who is better than any that has come out of their farm system in a long time. He's the RHd power bat they've been missing. As for Lester, he's coming off a bad year and his contract makes him expendable. I'd like to see Morales given a shot to replace him. Plus they have other prospects who may surprise if given the opportunity. And they can use Lester's money to sign another starter--if they don't wait too long. They do have a propensity to wait for the leftovers.

 

I expect Lackey to come back better, though it might take a half a season.

 

You make a good point about Morales. The more I think about it the Sox seem intent on clearing their clubhouse of those with an attitude problem. They seem to be going out of their way to look for guys with a good reputation for clubhouse chemistry. I wonder how much Lester's temperment is playing into their calculations.

[Bellhorn04]

Although the Sox biggest need is starting pitching, here's how the rest of the team looks today:

 

C. Salty, Ross, Lavarnway

1B. Gomez (yuk!)

2B. Pedroia

3B. Middlebrooks

SS. Iglesias, Ciriaco

LF. ?

CF. Ellsbury

RF. Gomes/Kalish

DH Ortiz

 

There is a lot of work that needs to be done aside from the pitching. Cherries needs to kick into gear soon. As I look at this collection of garbage mixed in with 2 stars, I think there will be some splashy moves.

 

So out of Ortiz, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Middlebrooks, you're including 2 of them as garbage.

[a700hitter]

So out of Ortiz, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Middlebrooks, you're including 2 of them as garbage.

No, I am not. Don't parse my words.

[jopete19]

Here is my take on the Myers trade.

 

First I am gonna ask a question.

 

Do the Red Sox need pitching?

Rhetorical ass question.

 

During the summer I live at the Royals AAA ballpark. I've seen Myers play. The kid is a absolute beast.

 

The Red Sox just hired a pitching coach as their head coach. I'm positive Farrell will turn Lester around. Farrell knows his stuff. Why would we trade our best pitcher? If we do it's going to be just another bridge year.

[Dojji]

Don't parse your words? Do you even know what "parse" means?

 

Perhaps instead of being prickly about people reading and comprehending your words correctly as written, you might care to rephrase?

[a700hitter]

Don't parse your words? Do you even know what "parse" means?

 

Perhaps instead of being prickly about people reading and comprehending your words correctly as written, you might care to rephrase?

It's pretty obvious what I was saying. Pedroia and Ortiz are our only reliable star players. The rest when looked at as a whole is a collection that is unimpressive. There we just wasted everyone's time, most importantly my time, explaining something that wasn't important and didn't need explaining.

 

BTW, I am pretty sure that I used the word parse correctly. Do you know what it means?

[Elktonnick]

Here is my take on the Myers trade.

 

First I am gonna ask a question.

 

Do the Red Sox need pitching?

Rhetorical ass question.

 

During the summer I live at the Royals AAA ballpark. I've seen Myers play. The kid is a absolute beast.

 

The Red Sox just hired a pitching coach as their head coach. I'm positive Farrell will turn Lester around. Farrell knows his stuff. Why would we trade our best pitcher? If we do it's going to be just another bridge year.

 

I think you just answered your own question. Such a deal would never happen unless Farrell agreed. Even Cherries, Lucchino et al wouldn't be that shortsighted to do that to their new manager. Farrell would never agree if you thought he could turn Lester around. That's why I conclude if this deal does happen it is because the FO and Farrell believe that Lester's best days are well behind him.

[a700hitter]

Rival teams say the Red Sox are open to dealing Andrew Bailey, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney reports (on Twitter). However, the reliever’s trade value remains low, so it doesn’t appear likely that the Red Sox will move him. Olney reported last month that the Blue Jays considered acquiring Bailey for manager John Farrell.

I guess that the Sox have given up the thought of Bailey becoming our next Papelbon.

[SoxSport]

From Fangraphs, a breakdown of how much TV money each team in MLB gets:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/dodgers-send-shock-waves-through-local-tv-landscape/

 

The LA teams are eclipsing everybody thanks to Fox.

 

The Yankees get a surprisingly small $90 million/yr from their cable channel. But the NY taxpayers got hooked on the new Yankee stadium plus concessions to the team.

 

The Red Sox are in the hunt at $60 million.

[jacksonianmarch]

I guess that the Sox have given up the thought of Bailey becoming our next Papelbon.

 

This makes no sense. Why deal Bailey now? He's completely useless in a trade offer as his arb number will be pricier than his production indicated. You have to hold him, build his value and either keep him or deal him when the stock is high

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If the Red Sox have the chance to make that Lester/Myers trade with KC, they have to do it. Absolutely have to.

[seabeachfred]

I can't believe the Royals would do this deal but, if they do I am all for it. But make no bones about it, it is a run this guys out of town move, if it happens. No one trades a quality starter if you believe his best years are ahead of him. This deal only happens because the the Sox don't believe that Lester's best years are ahead of him. Plus, it also tells me that the FO thinks Lester's attitude problem wasn't just confined to BV. Furthermore I can't believe the Sox do this deal without touching base with Farrell.

 

Perhaps the Red Sox want to clear the decks of all the bad actors and divas before they infect the good young talent that is starting to arrive in Fenway. There is no way we need a virus to infect the likes of Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Brentz, Bradley and Boegarts, not to mention Barnes, Owens, Renaudo and our other young players moving up. Lester has turned out to be a very irritating and nasty person and whether it was because of his hanging our with Beckett, and Lackey, the fact is that the gu y was a total ass last year attitude wise. It would mean that next year is a rebuilding one but it also means a large amount of home grown talent could join Myers and by the middle or end of this decade see us once again dominate the American League.

 

Of course, the fly in the ointment is Lucchino who likes big names and reputations, and a GM who I believe is too timid to make any such of a daring move as this. Just my opinion.

[seabeachfred]

It's pretty obvious what I was saying. Pedroia and Ortiz are our only reliable star players. The rest when looked at as a whole is a collection that is unimpressive. There we just wasted everyone's time, most importantly my time, explaining something that wasn't important and didn't need explaining.

 

BTW, I am pretty sure that I used the word parse correctly. Do you know what it means?

 

AARRRRFFFPPPHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Go get 'em Ted. Why are there so many hair splitters on the various and sundry baseball boards? I guess it gets to be an art form making a short story a long and tedious one.

[Orange Juiced]

I think you just answered your own question. Such a deal would never happen unless Farrell agreed. Even Cherries, Lucchino et al wouldn't be that shortsighted to do that to their new manager. Farrell would never agree if you thought he could turn Lester around. That's why I conclude if this deal does happen it is because the FO and Farrell believe that Lester's best days are well behind him.

 

Not necessarily. They could think that Lester will be good, but that Myers has a chance to be a perennial all-star, 40 hr middle of the order bat, *and* they think they have a good chance of replacing Lester from the free agent market. If they think those things, they they might still be willing to do the deal even if they think highly of Lester.

[Palodios]

This makes no sense. Why deal Bailey now? He's completely useless in a trade offer as his arb number will be pricier than his production indicated. You have to hold him, build his value and either keep him or deal him when the stock is high

 

I don't think there is anything here. Just Buster Olney re-hashing a story from a month ago.

[Behindenemylines]

I guess that the Sox have given up the thought of Bailey becoming our next Papelbon.

 

If this is the case the J Reddick trade is looking better and better, not!

[SoxFanForsyth]

It's pretty obvious what I was saying. Pedroia and Ortiz are our only reliable star players. The rest when looked at as a whole is a collection that is unimpressive. There we just wasted everyone's time, most importantly my time, explaining something that wasn't important and didn't need explaining.

 

BTW, I am pretty sure that I used the word parse correctly. Do you know what it means?

 

I don't see how you can say that Ellsbury and Middlebrooks are unimpressive? That's a very strong core, the 4 of them.

 

Ells had 2 freak injuries. Middlebrooks had a freak injury. The only player in that whole group that had recurring injuries over 2 seasons is Ortiz, with his heel, but he is somehow the reliable one?

 

Can't agree with this at all.

[a700hitter]

I don't see how you can say that Ellsbury and Middlebrooks are unimpressive? That's a very strong core, the 4 of them.

 

Ells had 2 freak injuries. Middlebrooks had a freak injury. The only player in that whole group that had recurring injuries over 2 seasons is Ortiz, with his heel, but he is somehow the reliable one?

 

Can't agree with this at all.

The collection of the remaining 7 players other than Pedroia and Ortiz are unimpressive. That's my opinion. Ellsbury had one great season, but when he was healthy last year, he was a shell of that 2011 player. Middlebrooks still has to prove he can do it on a day in and day out basis for a full season. I am not saying either of them are bad players, but I am not ready to call them stars just yet. We have 2 bona Fide stars in our lineup. Although I think Ellsbury and WMB are good players, they are not good enough for me to be impressed by the remainder of our lineup.

[a700hitter]

Jair Jurgens will be non-tendered by the Braves. What do you think of him?

[mvp 78]

Jair Jurgens will be non-tendered by the Braves. What do you think of him?

 

Rather him than Lackey.

[Palodios]

Jair Jurgens will be non-tendered by the Braves. What do you think of him?

 

He's had exactly one bad season in his career and several decent-to-excellent ones, and he's 26 years old. Definitely worth a hard look.

[Elktonnick]

Not necessarily. They could think that Lester will be good, but that Myers has a chance to be a perennial all-star, 40 hr middle of the order bat, *and* they think they have a good chance of replacing Lester from the free agent market. If they think those things, they they might still be willing to do the deal even if they think highly of Lester.

 

That is convoluted thinking and a reach Starting pitching wins championships. I can't imagine a GM as risk adverse as Cherrington and Farrell giving up on some one who they thought were an effective starter for an unproven prospect who hasn't played a single game in the bigs.