Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[Bellhorn04]

Sorry I did not mean to be dodging a question. Yes I do think that eventually defense became an issue for this team last year. Notice if you will that it was particularly exposed as our pitching s*** the bed but that does not mean our defense was better when the pitching was better. It was just not as exposed and I am not convinced that they are as good defensively this year as they were last.

 

Does this look like a great pitching staff? It is an above average but not great staff IF there are no injuries to 1,2 or 3 in the rotation. If anything happens to any of those three guys for any length of time this staff goes from above average to below average in a heartbeat.

 

Yes, I think the pitching is what will decide it and we'll definitely need some things to go our way. And if Aviles stinks it up we'll see Iglesias.

[SCM33]

A lot of posts are silly. It's so hard to impress people on talksox.

 

Wow. Reading through the thread today. Just wow.

 

Some people need to get laid.

 

Today?

 

Its pretty much everyday.

[iortiz]

Beckett has an ERA below 1. Sure, this is only ST but it is a good sign that he is at least healthy and compromised with the team and who knows... He could end with an ERA below 3 next season. I would have preferred Beckett in the opening day, in the end he was our best pitcher last season beyond his attitude.

 

Seems like Beckett and Lester will be strong and very solid. Hopefully Buch be the Buch we all know and our top 3 stay healthy.

[BornToRun]

Beckett has an ERA below 1. Sure, this is only ST but it is a good sign that he is at least healthy and compromised with the team and who knows... He could end with an ERA below 3 next season. I would have preferred Beckett in the opening day, in the end he was our best pitcher last season beyond his attitude.

 

Seems like Beckett and Lester will be strong and very solid. Hopefully Buch be the Buch we all know and our top 3 stay healthy.

 

The new josh is here to stay I think. He's not just a fireballer anymore, he's a pitcher. I think josh has truly become that guy he was last year for good. I expect numbers on par with what we saw last year.

[Spudboy]

Wow. Reading through the thread today. Just wow.

 

Some people need to get laid.

 

Interesting observation.

 

I said this three years ago.

[a700hitter]

But it's going to be essentially the same defense as last year' date=' except substitute Aviles for Scutaro and Sweeney/Ross for last year's mishmash in right. I don't see a big dropoff.[/quote']Drew was over the hill offensively, but he was still an above-average defender.

[ibot2much]

My dear God. Panic already?!? The season hasn't even started!!!

 

Unreal. It really is.

 

Talk about needing to get laid. Over use of exclamation points is usually a sign of that.

 

Unreal? Yea, you are.

[ibot2much]

Interesting observation.

 

I said this three years ago.

 

And yet you are still here? I don't much care for self-important a'holes.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Talk about needing to get laid. Over use of exclamation points is usually a sign of that.

 

Unreal? Yea, you are.

 

I have an excuse for not getting laid. I'm married.

 

But since ST is so important and stats and records mean so much right now, I guess we're in good shape because the Rangers and Rays are going to be sub-.500 teams this year.

[Dojji]

Beckett has an ERA below 1. Sure, this is only ST but it is a good sign that he is at least healthy and compromised with the team and who knows... He could end with an ERA below 3 next season. I would have preferred Beckett in the opening day, in the end he was our best pitcher last season beyond his attitude.

 

Seems like Beckett and Lester will be strong and very solid. Hopefully Buch be the Buch we all know and our top 3 stay healthy.

 

Actually I hope Buch will not be the Buch we all know. The one we saw last year was unusually good. Far better than the bomb-prone, ten cent head guy we were looking at before.

 

We need to get 200 innings of 3 ERA from Buchholz. The problem is, he's literally never been able to give us that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Actually I hope Buch will not be the Buch we all know. The one we saw last year was unusually good. Far better than the bomb-prone, ten cent head guy we were looking at before.

 

We need to get 200 innings of 3 ERA from Buchholz. The problem is, he's literally never been able to give us that.

 

Requiring 200 IP of 3.00 ERA baseball from your #3 starter? Who in the AL East has that pitcher? Lester and Beckett won't even give that to us.

 

Buchholz will be good for 180-200 IP of 3.35-3.50 ERA baseball, which is plenty enough for this team to win the AL East.

 

And bomb prone? Going all the way back to 2009 for that one. And by the way, over the last 2 years, he's thrown 256 IP to a 2.70 ERA. His ERA was bumped up to 3.48 before getting hurt last year, but he was finally starting to settle in right before he got hurt, going 5-0 with a 2.59 ERA in his final 9 starts.

[iortiz]

Actually I hope Buch will not be the Buch we all know. The one we saw last year was unusually good. Far better than the bomb-prone, ten cent head guy we were looking at before.

 

We need to get 200 innings of 3 ERA from Buchholz. The problem is, he's literally never been able to give us that.

 

Well, I meant the solid and strong Buch we have seen at some points in the past. He has the potential to be a #1 starter IMO. Sure, I'm concerned about his health but he is young and If he stays healthy, do not be surpriesed; he could give us an ERA around 3.0. and 180+ IP.

[RedSoxNC84]

Requiring 200 IP of 3.00 ERA baseball from your #3 starter? Who in the AL East has that pitcher? Lester and Beckett won't even give that to us.

 

Buchholz will be good for 180-200 IP of 3.35-3.50 ERA baseball, which is plenty enough for this team to win the AL East.

 

And bomb prone? Going all the way back to 2009 for that one. And by the way, over the last 2 years, he's thrown 256 IP to a 2.70 ERA. His ERA was bumped up to 3.48 before getting hurt last year, but he was finally starting to settle in right before he got hurt, going 5-0 with a 2.59 ERA in his final 9 starts.

 

Following that observation, I think it's possible that he gives us 200 innings of 3 ERA baseball.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Following that observation' date=' I think it's possible that he gives us 200 innings of 3 ERA baseball.[/quote']

 

I would love nothing more than that. But you have to expect a few bad games from any pitcher in any league, so 3.3-3.5 is a realistic expectation. Sub 3 is optimistic but I like it

[User Name]

Actually I hope Buch will not be the Buch we all know. The one we saw last year was unusually good. Far better than the bomb-prone, ten cent head guy we were looking at before.

 

We need to get 200 innings of 3 ERA from Buchholz. The problem is, he's literally never been able to give us that.

 

You find the most ridiculous arguments to criticize good players, and equally ridiculous arguments to defend s***** ones. Bucholz' transformation had been going on for two years before last year's injury.

[ORS]

You find the most ridiculous arguments to criticize good players' date=' and equally ridiculous arguments to defend s***** ones. Bucholz' transformation had been going on for two years before last year's injury.[/quote']

Internet Psychology Warning:

 

I think the guy has a pretty big compulsion to be/sound "original". I think this why so much off-the-wall stuff is posted.

[SoxSport]

Remember when Beckett beat the Yankees in Yankee Stadium to win the World series for the Marlins?

Didn't he shut them out? He's also pitched a few big games like that in Boston. I like his makeup. He gets injured too much, but the Red Sox are known to pussy their pitchers. So maybe it's not his fault. I've never had a high regard for how the organization handles pitching.

[mvp 78]

I have an excuse for not getting laid. I'm married.

 

Add a baby to the mix and you'll become a eunich.

[ibot2much]

Chris C...TE's compensation to have elbow surgery and will miss part of the season. Was that an even swap before?? What about now?

[Station 13]

Carpenter is Hansen II. Don't expect much.

[a700hitter]

Chris C...TE's compensation to have elbow surgery and will miss part of the season. Was that an even swap before?? What about now?

What a joke!! I guess Cherries didn't see the need for a medical evaluation.

[seabeachfred]

I would love nothing more than that. But you have to expect a few bad games from any pitcher in any league' date=' so 3.3-3.5 is a realistic expectation. Sub 3 is optimistic but I like it[/quote']

 

Forsyth and the rest of you guys---this isn't last year or the year before when we allowed ourselves to believe we had a deep starting rotation (which we really didn't). This year our so-called "Big Three" cannot just pitch decently; they have to pitch superbly. They have to win big, they have to stay healthy and they have to carry the load. Just thinking that Bard is going to open as our No. 4 starter should be enough to give all of us the shakes considering how s***** he has pitched this Spring in that role. He walks them, he gives up hits, he gives up runs, and he never can get out of a tough inning without creating damage to the team. Doubrant No. 5? We'll see. Cook? Maybe. See, we are in a bind after Beckett, Lester and Buchholz. They need to take care of themselves, the medical staff must be on top of things here, the coaching staff must monitor them daily and we better have luck working for us this year instead of taking a siesta at our expense a la 2009, 2010 and 2011.

[a700hitter]

The rotation is thin. I can't optimistically overlook that. Even if Bard and Doubront can do the job for most of the season, I am not comfortable with Cook, Padilla and Ohlendorf backing them up.

[seabeachfred]

Remember when Beckett beat the Yankees in Yankee Stadium to win the World series for the Marlins?

Didn't he shut them out? He's also pitched a few big games like that in Boston. I like his makeup. He gets injured too much, but the Red Sox are known to pussy their pitchers. So maybe it's not his fault. I've never had a high regard for how the organization handles pitching.

 

Well with Valentine managing instead of pablum dispenser Francona, there will be no pussying of the pitching staff this year. Tito was notorious for that. And, yes, Beckett did beat the Yankees, 2-0, in the 6th game of the 2003 WS to wrap it up for the Marlins. I hope he is in good shape and the medical and conditioning staff does its job for a change this year because we need a top notch performance from Josh this year, not to mention the same from Lester and Buchholz.

[jung]

Well I was surprised to hear Cafardo's comments on Iggy today mainly because he was so much in agreement with things that many of us have been saying for weeks. I think Cafardo actually knows what he is talking about whereas I am often just shooting my mouth off based on what I am seeing or at least think I am seeing.

 

At any rate Cafardo is mystified with the Sox and their historical inability to come to terms with SS as a plus defensive position. This is something that I have talked about for weeks now so I won't belabor the point more than I have.

 

The key point is that this is going to be a pitching staff desperately looking for help in the field this year. When said pitching staff found to many bats with to many balls last year there was little to no help from the defense behind them and things went from bad to worse as to many struck baseballs were either booted in the field or were picked up but thrown poorly or to the wrong base. All kinds of s*** happened to that defense once bats started finding balls later in the season.

 

Now Youk is one year older and his range has continued in decline in recent years. I expect his range to be marginally worse this year than it was last and I don't expect him to play more than 120 games either. Aviles will have to pick up the remaining games at third which brings Punto in to play SS. There is a plus bat for you.

 

On the subject of batting and Iggy (and here is where Cafardo being there all spring and knowing what he is doing helps) Cafardo comments that Iggy has only struck out 3 times in 25 at bats so in Cafardo's view it is not like the kid is embarrassing himself out there. His view is that Iggy is holding his own at the plate given where he has been and is such a plus defender that he should be the Sox starting SS. I agree and hope that we see Iggy back sooner rather than later.

[redsoxfan3]

Well I was surprised to hear Cafardo's comments on Iggy today mainly because he was so much in agreement with things that many of us have been saying for weeks. I think Cafardo actually knows what he is talking about whereas I am often just shooting my mouth off based on what I am seeing or at least think I am seeing.

 

At any rate Cafardo is mystified with the Sox and their historical inability to come to terms with SS as a plus defensive position. This is something that I have talked about for weeks now so I won't belabor the point more than I have.

 

The key point is that this is going to be a pitching staff desperately looking for help in the field this year. When said pitching staff found to many bats with to many balls last year there was little to no help from the defense behind them and things went from bad to worse as to many struck baseballs were either booted in the field or were picked up but thrown poorly or to the wrong base. All kinds of s*** happened to that defense once bats started finding balls later in the season.

 

Now Youk is one year older and his range has continued in decline in recent years. I expect his range to be marginally worse this year than it was last and I don't expect him to play more than 120 games either. Aviles will have to pick up the remaining games at third which brings Punto in to play SS. There is a plus bat for you.

 

On the subject of batting and Iggy (and here is where Cafardo being there all spring and knowing what he is doing helps) Cafardo comments that Iggy has only struck out 3 times in 25 at bats so in Cafardo's view it is not like the kid is embarrassing himself out there. His view is that Iggy is holding his own at the plate given where he has been and is such a plus defender that he should be the Sox starting SS. I agree and hope that we see Iggy back sooner rather than later.

 

Punto is known for his defense, so if he has to play some games at SS if Youk goes down, then it isn't the end of the world. I still wouldn't say Punto is as good as a defensive SS as Iglesias, but he is a decent backup option who could do fine filling in. If Youk does go on the DL this season, Iglesias will most likely get called up. Aviles will be at 3B and Iglesias will more than likely start SS. Punto might even get some time at 3B. I do understand where you are coming from with wanting Iglesias to be in the majors, but you also have to understand that Iglesias needs more time to develop. The same thing is happening for Lavarnway more than likely.

 

Iglesias actually had a better AVG, OBP, SLG, and OPS in the previous two years in Spring Training. I am sure they are aware of his stats from Spring Training in 2010 and 2011. His approach to the plate might be better this year and that is a step in the right direction. Just be patient with him. There is no point in rushing him into the majors. The kid is only 22. He will more than likely be with the Sox for several years to come. I do agree with you in saying that we will see Iggy sooner rather than later. He might be given a chance at some point this year. If he is not give a chance this year, then something is telling me that he will be our opening day SS next year as long as he improves his bat. He is getting a lot of compliments about his defense. I don't know exactly what Pedroia said, but he said something along the lines that he is one of the best SS's he has ever seen defensively. That is coming from one hell of a defender himself and from a guy who has played with several major league SS's. I know if I were a pitcher, I would want Iggy playing behind me.

[BornToRun]

Forsyth and the rest of you guys---this isn't last year or the year before when we allowed ourselves to believe we had a deep starting rotation (which we really didn't). This year our so-called "Big Three" cannot just pitch decently; they have to pitch superbly. They have to win big' date=' they have to stay healthy and they have to carry the load. Just thinking that Bard is going to open as our No. 4 starter should be enough to give all of us the shakes considering how s***** he has pitched this Spring in that role. He walks them, he gives up hits, he gives up runs, and he never can get out of a tough inning without creating damage to the team. Doubrant No. 5? We'll see. Cook? Maybe. See, we are in a bind after Beckett, Lester and Buchholz. They need to take care of themselves, the medical staff must be on top of things here, the coaching staff must monitor them daily and we better have luck working for us this year instead of taking a siesta at our expense a la 2009, 2010 and 2011.[/quote']

I think the rotation isn't much of a problem. The talent is there and we have some veteran guys to keep things stable if someone goes down. Beckett Lester and buchholz are all ace level pitchers. Bard I think should be in the pen but Felix has had a decent spring and Padilla and cook are good insurance policies along with Aceves should it prove necessary. So what if the retreads don't look great, no one thought Garcia and Colin would do s*** last year.

[a700hitter]

I think the rotation isn't much of a problem. The talent is there and we have some veteran guys to keep things stable if someone goes down. Beckett Lester and buchholz are all ace level pitchers. Bard I think should be in the pen but Felix has had a decent spring and Padilla and cook are good insurance policies along with Aceves should it prove necessary. So what if the retreads don't look great' date=' no one thought Garcia and Colin would do s*** last year.[/quote']Garcia and Colon were at one time top pitchers. Cook, Padilla and Ohlendorf are over the hill pitchers who never were top pitchers.

[RedSoxNC84]

As long as Beckett stays consistent with last year's performance, and not his typical odd year even year performances like history suggests, then the rotation isn't AS thin as we might think. The retreads could hold up, and if they don't, there are plenty of options there. They may not be the best options, but it beats the hell out of the options we had last season.

[User Name]

Garcia and Colon were at one time top pitchers. Cook' date=' Padilla and Ohlendorf are over the hill pitchers who never were top pitchers.[/quote']

 

That doesn't mean they were top pitchers when the Yankees signed them, rendering this point completely and absolutely moot.

 

Garcia lives on deception, since his stuff is all but gone, and Colon got a little "outside" help.