Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[ORS]

Why is the focus only on whether or not they are getting ultimate value out of Bard? While I agree that it is ideal to achieve the best possible payment/performance value, focussing solely on that kind of ignores a more general good that can be achieved here. If Bard reaches his ultimate potential as a SP, that is going to be a very good thing for the Sox chances to win a title, even if it is only in short window. Better, IMO, and the stats kind of back this up, than their chances this year with him in the BP.

[a700hitter]

Why is the focus only on whether or not they are getting ultimate value out of Bard? While I agree that it is ideal to achieve the best possible payment/performance value' date=' focussing solely on that kind of ignores a more general good that can be achieved here. If Bard reaches his ultimate potential as a SP, that is going to be a very good thing for the Sox chances to win a title, even if it is only in short window. Better, IMO, and the stats kind of back this up, than their chances this year with him in the BP.[/quote']I didn't say that it wouldn't be good for the Sox. I just stated my opinion that I hate developing players to play their prime years for other teams. I posted the first thread last August about Bard becoming a starter. I was one of the few posters at that time who thought it would be a good idea. ORS, I realize that you are a man of science, but not everything in life or sports has to be proved right or wrong. I just don't like being the training grounds for players to be successful elsewhere.

[Bellhorn04]

I didn't say that it wouldn't be good for the Sox. I just stated my opinion that I hate developing players to play their prime years for other teams. I posted the first thread last August about Bard becoming a starter. I was one of the few posters at that time who thought it would be a good idea. ORS' date=' I realize that you are a man of science, but not everything in life or sports has to be proved right or wrong. I just don't like being the training grounds for players to be successful elsewhere.[/quote']

 

I don't like that much either. So let's develop him quickly into a good starter and sign him to just the right deal at just the right time.

[a700hitter]

I don't like that much either. So let's develop him quickly into a good starter and sign him to just the right deal at just the right time.

I agree with this.

[RedSoxNC84]

I just don't like being the training grounds for players to be successful elsewhere.

 

 

Since when were we the Padres?

[VA Sox Fan]

Ha ha, U.N. remains obsessed with me! A700Hitter remains a must read, love him or hate him.

 

VA, I apologize for the 3rd person reference, but it's not really a 3rd person reference when you think about it. A700Hitter is just an internet identity-- not who I am by a long shot. A700Hitter is whoever the reader has conjured up in his/her own minds, and none of it approaches the real person. Again, I apologize, because I know it is a pet peeve of yours.

 

Dammit 700, I was getting ready to give you s*** about your 3rd person use in another thread:angry:;) You beat me to it!

[a700hitter]

Dammit 700' date=' I was getting ready to give you s*** about your 3rd person use in another thread:angry:;) You beat me to it! [/quote']

[iortiz]

The season has not even started and our closer and #2 SP are among cottons?, regardless Crawford is not ready either.

 

Our question marks were already there, and now this? Unbelievable.

[Station 13]

Baily expected to have surgery. Likely July before he is back if so.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

#RedSox closer Andrew Bailey will be in Cleveland on Tuesday to get a second opinion on his injured right thumb from Dr. Thomas Graham, a hand specialist and surgeon. Bailey was examined today in Boston. According to major league sources, the news was not good and Bailey may require surgery. It is not clear how long he would be out. -Peter Abraham broke the story

 

Already we have to deal with this s***?

[SCM33]

Already we have to deal with this s***?

 

Are you shocked?

 

He's missed 100 games over the last 2 years because of injury.

 

He strained his lat on a vertical exercise on day 1 of camp. Now hes hurt again.

 

Why can't we compete with big market teams like the Phillies to sign free agents like Jonathan Papelbon?

[User Name]

Or Adrian Gonzales, or Carl Crawford?

 

Oh, wait.....

[iortiz]

Because our payroll is clogged...

[jacksonianmarch]

It obviously depends on the surgery they are recommending. The hand is a tricky area and I would assume they are talking about surgery on one of his tendons. If they are just opening a sheath, he'll miss 6 weeks or so. If they need to repair a partial or complete tendon tear, then he's out 12 weeks. If the adductor muscle is torn, then he might need 8-12 weeks. We'll see what that is. Obviously, this is his pitching arm, so he'll need to then build his arm back up. You can only do so much dry tossing to keep your arm in shape

[a700hitter]

Basically, we will not get even 40 innings out of this guy who is obviously made of glass. He pulled a lat during his physical and now a mystery thumb injury? Of course he still has an elbow hanging together by a thread. Is it any wonder that Billy Beane dumped him on us for trash like Josh Reddick.

[RedSoxNC84]

700, they may just call it BC surgery after all.

 

 

Andrew Bailey takes a shower, requires Ben Cherington surgery on his thumb.

 

Josh Beckett scratches balls, requires surgery.

 

What's next?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wonder what it would cost this team to get a guy like Brandon League? Hard throwing closer from SEA, FA in 2013.

[seabeachfred]

Oh boy!!!!! My colleagues, I think there is a blizzard coming on. I can vouch for 700 and a couple of others who warned that Bailey was a tin man when we got him. Well, you injure yourself on the first day of ST and then mysteriously hurt your thumb and don't even know how you did it? You know guys, Cook pitched pretty well today. You suppose in light of what's been going down we face reality, put him in the rotation and pray that he holds up---and send Bard to the bullpen, at least until Beckett gets back? Remember, we don't need a fifth starter until the 11th game. What could be wrong with that?

[ORS]

Oh boy!!!!! My colleagues' date=' I think there is a blizzard coming on. I can vouch for 700 and a couple of others who warned that Bailey was a tin man when we got him. Well, you injure yourself on the first day of ST and then mysteriously hurt your thumb and don't even know how you did it? You know guys, Cook pitched pretty well today. You suppose in light of what's been going down we face reality, put him in the rotation and pray that he holds up---and send Bard to the bullpen, at least until Beckett gets back? Remember, we don't need a fifth starter until the 11th game. What could be wrong with that?[/quote']

Given the transition he's making, I think sending Bard to the BP now means he's there for the balance of the season. That's what's wrong with that.

 

EDIT: That, and Beckett isn't out officially yet.

[jung]

Besides, Bard is not a closer and if Bailey is gone for 6-8-12 weeks at least in my view the Sox will have to go get a closer somehow.

 

Amazing how Bailey just cannot stay healthy. It is not like he has a chronic injury that keeps coming back. All of his injures have been one offs of this that and the other thing.

[iortiz]

Oh boy!!!!! My colleagues' date=' I think there is a blizzard coming on. I can vouch for 700 and a couple of others who warned that Bailey was a tin man when we got him. Well, you injure yourself on the first day of ST and then mysteriously hurt your thumb and don't even know how you did it? You know guys, Cook pitched pretty well today. [b']You suppose in light of what's been going down we face reality, put him in the rotation and pray that he holds up---and send Bard to the bullpen, at least until Beckett gets back? Remember, we don't need a fifth starter until the 11th game. What could be wrong with that?[/b]

 

I agree with this Fred.

 

Send Bard to pen and give him the closer role for once and for all and if Bailey returns give him the set up job, and pray for Cook or other holds up the 5th spot in our rotation.

 

But please... do not convert him SP for 4 games and then send him to pen for 20 games and then, give him a SP role again... You could damage his arm and we definitely do not need that.

[Elktonnick]

Besides, Bard is not a closer and if Bailey is gone for 6-8-12 weeks at least in my view the Sox will have to go get a closer somehow.

 

Amazing how Bailey just cannot stay healthy. It is not like he has a chronic injury that keeps coming back. All of his injures have been one offs of this that and the other thing.

 

The guy hurt himself jumping up in the air! Now he hurts his thumb doing lord knows what and we haven't even started the season. I'd be surprised if he goes 40 innings this year assuming he is only out for a couple of weeks with this latest injury.

[User Name]

I agree with this Fred.

 

Send Bard to pen and give him the closer role for once and for all and if Bailey returns give him the set up job, and pray for Cook or other holds up the 5th spot in our rotation.

 

But please... do not convert him SP for 4 games and then send him to pen for 20 games and then, give him a SP role again... You could damage his arm and we definitely do not need that.

 

 

This is a very inconsistent thought process. To follow through with your scenario, he shouldn't be moved to the BP at all, because he's been stretched out and prepared as a starter.

 

Keep him in the rotation and find another option.

[jung]

UN is right. Keep Bard in the rotation.

 

Look folks the entire reason Bailey is here is because Paps was let go and it was determined that Bard is not a closer. He was not a closer then and he is not a closer now. Worse than that as UN points out, he is prepped to start now.

 

Sox are likely going to have to get an arm if the 6-8-12 week scenario on Bailey is what is in the works.

 

In addition you would have to have blinders on not to recognize how committed the FO is to having Bard in the rotation.

[iortiz]

I didn't like what I saw from him this ST and I think he has better chances to succed in the BP. Only time will tell, though.

[User Name]

He's already succeeded in the bullpen. But his Spring training showing is not enough to pass judgement as to what he can become in the rotation. They think he has the upside to become a top-flight starter, and even as an above-average one he has more value than in the BP.

[jung]

In my view the FO is going to vet the idea of developing Bard as a starter. Even with recent injury developments there is no better year or time for them to do that than this year and they are committed to doing that.

 

You might not have seen Aceves comments from his presser. He said "it does not matter how I pitch. They want Bard in the rotation." If Aceves has concluded that it is what it is, I think it is about time that we do the same.

[iortiz]

How many games or what do we need to see to send him back to pen?. Do not take me wrong, I want that he succeed in the rotation if that is the plan for him... but I thought that ST was going to be the go/no-go.

[a700hitter]

UN is right. Keep Bard in the rotation.

 

Look folks the entire reason Bailey is here is because Paps was let go and it was determined that Bard is not a closer. He was not a closer then and he is not a closer now. Worse than that as UN points out, he is prepped to start now.

 

Sox are likely going to have to get an arm if the 6-8-12 week scenario on Bailey is what is in the works.

 

In addition you would have to have blinders on not to recognize how committed the FO is to having Bard in the rotation.

I don't think this accurate. Bard isn't closing, because he has been pressuring the Sox for sometime to get the chance to start.

[Elktonnick]

In my view the FO is going to vet the idea of developing Bard as a starter. Even with recent injury developments there is no better year or time for them to do that than this year and they are committed to doing that.

 

You might not have seen Aceves comments from his presser. He said "it does not matter how I pitch. They want Bard in the rotation." If Aceves has concluded that it is what it is, I think it is about time that we do the same.

 

Bard will be in the rotation unless he bombs out in his first few starts during the regular season. We'll know if he will remain a starter by mid May. That being said he is very unlikely to finish the year as a sttarter even if he is successful. They'll shut him down at about 130-140 innings and he'll end up in the pen, at least that's what most analysts are saying now.

 

I am among those who are skeptical that he'll succeed as a starter. Bard is still a thrower not a pitcher. Tempermentally he may not be suitable as a closer but I don't think he has the temperment to start either. In sum though I believe he is more likely to succeed as a closer than starter because that's where his talent is. Time will tell