Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[jung]

Hard to care about the media questioning Bard's ability when his own manager does. Which of those two do you think are more stressful?

 

I hope he comes out and shuts V's mouth for him along with everybody elses.

 

I am more concerned about walks with Bard than this stuff about not throwing the change. He threw 12 in the stint before his last when he only threw one. In the 4th and 5th innings of his last outing his was mowing em' down without throwing the change up. The way he was going I would likely not have thrown the change if I were him either. Clearly he was not under instructions from V to throw it.

 

V would have told us if Bard was under instructions to throw the change since V tells everybody everything. About the only thing V has not given up so far is the morning bowel movement report. We will likely get that one on a slow day. It must be a bad day for V unless he has something to say about something.

[Palodios]

Ryan Madson getting Tommy John Surgery. The Bailey trade is starting to look even better....

[iortiz]

Doubront has the most IPs (16) thus far this ST and a 2.7 ERA.

 

Maybe he and why not Cook/Padilla could take the 4th and 5th spots.

 

I'm not sure about Bard in the rotation anymore. As I said, at least be strong in 1 department: @ BP, sending Bard and why not Aceves too to BP. Our offense and this kind of BP (with Aceves, Bard, Melancon, Bailey, Miller, Albers, Morales) could help Doubront, Cook, Padilla if they s*** the bed early in the game.

[mvp 78]

Padilla is injured and BV stated he's not being considered for a starting role. He's also just not very good.

[Bellhorn04]

Padilla hasn't been terrible this spring. 11 innings, 13 hits, 5 ER, 9 K, 1 BB. We could probably do worse for middle relievers. But he's certainly out of the hunt for a starting slot.

[SoxSport]

Cafardo's Sunday baseball column:

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2012/03/25/ryan_lavarnway_and_jose_iglesias_could_offer_major_help_for_red_sox/?page=5

 

He is out and out saying Valentine wants Iglesias and Lavarnway on the roster.

 

He sees Iglesias as the only real starting SS, and Lavarnway as a major league ready hitter

about on par defensively as Salty. He apparently does not like Shoppach. And he prefers Bard in the bullpen, as he is concerned about Melancon and Bailey.

 

You take a veteran like Valentine and his differences with a newbie like Ben C. You have to wonder about Ben, although I think the trades he's made so far are good ones.

[SoxSport]

Hard to care about the media questioning Bard's ability when his own manager does. Which of those two do you think are more stressful?

 

I hope he comes out and shuts V's mouth for him along with everybody elses.

 

I am more concerned about walks with Bard than this stuff about not throwing the change. He threw 12 in the stint before his last when he only threw one. In the 4th and 5th innings of his last outing his was mowing em' down without throwing the change up. The way he was going I would likely not have thrown the change if I were him either. Clearly he was not under instructions from V to throw it.

 

V would have told us if Bard was under instructions to throw the change since V tells everybody everything. About the only thing V has not given up so far is the morning bowel movement report. We will likely get that one on a slow day. It must be a bad day for V unless he has something to say about something.

 

I don't think V dislikes Bard as a starter. From what I'm reading in Cafardo's column, he feels he needs him in the bullpen because he is concerned about Melancon and Bailey.He clearly has more options for starter than closer/setup.

[SoxSport]

Doubront has the most IPs (16) thus far this ST and a 2.7 ERA.

 

Maybe he and why not Cook/Padilla could take the 4th and 5th spots.

 

I'm not sure about Bard in the rotation anymore. As I said, at least be strong in 1 department: @ BP, sending Bard and why not Aceves too to BP. Our offense and this kind of BP (with Aceves, Bard, Melancon, Bailey, Miller, Albers, Morales) could help Doubront, Cook, Padilla if they s*** the bed early in the game.

 

Doubront has locked it up. Not sure about the other starter. V really wants Bard at closer or setup. He isn't sold on Melancon or maybe even Bailey.

[mvp 78]

Padilla hasn't been terrible this spring. 11 innings' date=' 13 hits, 5 ER, 9 K, 1 BB. We could probably do worse for middle relievers. But he's certainly out of the hunt for a starting slot.[/quote']

 

He's also been facing AAA hitters at the end of the game.

[Bellhorn04]

He's also been facing AAA hitters at the end of the game.

 

True.

[redsoxfan3]

Doubront has locked it up. Not sure about the other starter. V really wants Bard at closer or setup. He isn't sold on Melancon or maybe even Bailey.

 

Bard gets the start today against the Jays. Does anyone know how many innings they want him to pitch? If he wants to win a starting spot, this is probably his last chance he has to win it. Doubront probably locked up the 5th spot, but of course nothing is set in stone yet. I always want to know if Aceves and Cook are going to be starting at least one more game. I really want to give Cook a shot. If we try to have him go six innings and he has a solid outing, he might be worth giving a shot in the rotation to keep both Bard and Aceves in the pen. This is a big outing today for Bard, especially with him facing guys like Bautista, Encarnacion, Thames, Lind, Escobar, Johnson, and Lawrie.

[jung]

If (big if) but if Bard has a good outing today with respect to walks particularly, I don't wonder that we might something of a tit for tat between V and BC. Seems like the FO would want Bard to the rotation for obvious reasons. Bard's upside as a starter if it could be developed is very high and player development and long range goals are the domain of the FO.

 

V wants Iggy here this year again for obvious reasons. Maybe they compromise with Bard to the rotation and Iggy to the starting SS. Not sure about how Lavarnway will fit. That would seem to me to e a step way over the lines of reason in the discussion of short term goals and long range plans.

 

The Sox do not have a catcher on the horizon that has the potential to be what Lavarnway is. However if Salty is no better than Lavarnway according to V, that is more a comment on Salty than Lavarnway. Lavarnway needs to develop his catching skills more. V should stand down on that one and if he does not stand down then LL should stand him down!

[SoxSport]

So Bard has a so-so outing today, and V says hey he looked really good forget about all the runs scored--he had a good changeup and slider. So maybe Bard is still in the picture as a starter. They have a dilemma down there with Lavarnway, who got 3 hits today and will be hard to keep off the roster.

The Sox in recent years always seem to have some mediocre veteran standing in the way of a better, younger talent in the minors. Shoppach seemed to be a sensible signing for defense, but he's now standing in the way of Lavarnway.

[RedSoxNC84]

So Bard has a so-so outing today, and V says hey he looked really good forget about all the runs scored--he had a good changeup and slider. So maybe Bard is still in the picture as a starter. They have a dilemma down there with Lavarnway, who got 3 hits today and will be hard to keep off the roster.

The Sox in recent years always seem to have some mediocre veteran standing in the way of a better, younger talent in the minors. Shoppach seemed to be a sensible signing for defense, but he's now standing in the way of Lavarnway.

 

I still think defense is important. If we were to trade shoppach for a pitcher, and keep lavarnway on the roster, I wouldn't hate the move. Begs the question though, what about defense?

[Spudboy]

Хто ебать порушеної про цьому сезоні? Що ебать я! На Sox може відображатися завершена. Але те, що команда насправді? Пам'ятайте, що 2011 команда була завантажена для ведмедя. Ця команда не може з'явитися так добре. Проте, існує безліч з нетерпінням очікуємо.

[jacksonianmarch]

They got Shoppach because they have seen what happens to a pitching staff when your catcher is useless. Varitek was an awesome defensive catcher, but he was useless from 09 on and last yr Salty wasnt much better. Shoppach is a plus defender behind the dish and can actually act as a binky for some salty pitchers (read Beckett). If they want Lavarnway to develop anything defensively, he must go to AAA.

[User Name]

They got Shoppach because they have seen what happens to a pitching staff when your catcher is useless. Varitek was an awesome defensive catcher' date=' but he was useless from 09 on and last yr Salty wasnt much better. Shoppach is a plus defender behind the dish and can actually act as a binky for some salty pitchers (read Beckett). [b']If they want Lavarnway to develop anything defensively, he must go to AAA.[/b]

 

^This.

[jung]

Agreed.....the media is saying that V is making Lavarnway one of the guys he is trying to get up here this year. I actually do not think even half a season back at AAA is enough in Lavarnway's case. I think he will have to stay at AAA for the entire season or at least up until the September call ups.

 

V's position regarding Lavarnway is the best evidence we have that V is just a wee bit to focused on getting a result this season regardless of considerations even as near as next season.

[SoxSport]

Agreed.....the media is saying that V is making Lavarnway one of the guys he is trying to get up here this year. I actually do not think even half a season back at AAA is enough in Lavarnway's case. I think he will have to stay at AAA for the entire season or at least up until the September call ups.

 

V's position regarding Lavarnway is the best evidence we have that V is just a wee bit to focused on getting a result this season regardless of considerations even as near as next season.

 

You got it. He has to win. This is an expensive team which has done nothing the past few years. Henry needs to get tougher.

[VA Sox Fan]

Projecting the Opening Day roster, 2.0

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff March 26, 2012 12:16 AM

 

 

 

The Red Sox break camp in Florida a week from today and head to Washington for their final exhibition game.

 

Here's our second shot at projecting the 25-man Opening Day roster. Our first version came on March 13. There have been a few changes.

 

Lineup (9)

Jacoby Ellsbury CF

Dustin Pedroia 2B

Adrian Gonzalez 1B

David Ortiz DH

Kevin Youkilis 3B

Cody Ross LF

Jarrod Saltalamacchia C

Ryan Sweeney RF

Mike Aviles SS

 

Bench (4)

Kelly Shoppach C

Darnell McDonald OF

Nick Punto INF

Ryan Lavarnway C

 

Explanation: Aviles has played well enough to earn the job and Jose Iglesias is hitting .174/.240/.261. He looks better at the plate, sure. But what has he earned? Until Carl Crawford comes back, keeping Lavarnway around makes sense. He's a heck of a hitter and could be useful in several ways. The alternative would be somebody like INF Pedro Ciriaco or OF Jason Repko.

 

Keeping Lavarnway in the majors for a few weeks would not hurt his development. If anything, it could further it.

 

Rotation (5)

Jon Lester LHP

Josh Beckett RHP

Clay Buchholz RHP

Felix Doubront LHP

Daniel Bard RHP

 

Bullpen (7)

Andrew Bailey RHP

Mark Melancon RHP

Alfredo Aceves RHP

Matt Albers, RHP

Franklin Morales, LHP

Michael Bowden, RHP

Vincente Padilla, RHP

 

Explanation: The Red Sox do not need a No. 5 starter until April 11, so in theory they could play some roster games with the staff. But we'll play it straight for now. Doubront deserves to the be the No. 4 starter ahead of Bard. Plus any innings you can conserve with Bard now could pay off later as there is little chance he can give you more than 150 or so this season. Not after throwing 73 last season.

 

Ideally you would like two lefties in the bullpen. But Andrew Miller has been hurt and Justin Thomas hasn't shown enough to unseat one of the righthanders. Tough break for Aceves going back to the bullpen. But if Bard can't handle the rotation, Aceves could get his chance later on in the season. Bobby Valentine likes Michael Bowden. Padilla, in theory at least, should be able to go multiple innings if needed.

 

Disabled List (7)

Daisuke Matsuzaka RHP

John Lackey RHP

Bobby Jenks RHP

Rich Hill, LHP

Andrew Miller LHP

Carl Crawford OF

Ryan Kalish OF

 

Explanation: Seven players on the DL before the season even starts? Dr. James Andrews should open a walk-in clinic in a back room at the Cask 'n Flagon.

 

Lackey and (quite possibly) Jenks are done for the year as they recover from surgery. Matsuzaka is on a sometime-in-June timetable barring a setback. Hill has made remarkable process and is throwing the ball better than any other lefty reliever in camp. But rehab protocol demands he build up gradually. Crawford isn't close to getting into a game. We could we talking more late April with him. Miller has so far had elbow and hamstring issues. Given that he is out of options, the Sox will happily allow him to dwell on the DL. Kalish has started baseball activities and should return to at least Pawtucket later this season.

[a700hitter]

Projecting the Opening Day roster' date=' 2.0[/b']

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff March 26, 2012 12:16 AM

 

 

 

The Red Sox break camp in Florida a week from today and head to Washington for their final exhibition game.

 

Here's our second shot at projecting the 25-man Opening Day roster. Our first version came on March 13. There have been a few changes.

 

Lineup (9)

Jacoby Ellsbury CF

Dustin Pedroia 2B

Adrian Gonzalez 1B

David Ortiz DH

Kevin Youkilis 3B

Cody Ross LF

Jarrod Saltalamacchia C

Ryan Sweeney RF

Mike Aviles SS

 

Bench (4)

Kelly Shoppach C

Darnell McDonald OF

Nick Punto INF

Ryan Lavarnway C

 

Explanation: Aviles has played well enough to earn the job and Jose Iglesias is hitting .174/.240/.261. He looks better at the plate, sure. But what has he earned? Until Carl Crawford comes back, keeping Lavarnway around makes sense. He's a heck of a hitter and could be useful in several ways. The alternative would be somebody like INF Pedro Ciriaco or OF Jason Repko.

 

Keeping Lavarnway in the majors for a few weeks would not hurt his development. If anything, it could further it.

 

Rotation (5)

Jon Lester LHP

Josh Beckett RHP

Clay Buchholz RHP

Felix Doubront LHP

Daniel Bard RHP

 

Bullpen (7)

Andrew Bailey RHP

Mark Melancon RHP

Alfredo Aceves RHP

Matt Albers, RHP

Franklin Morales, LHP

Michael Bowden, RHP

Vincente Padilla, RHP

 

Explanation: The Red Sox do not need a No. 5 starter until April 11, so in theory they could play some roster games with the staff. But we'll play it straight for now. Doubront deserves to the be the No. 4 starter ahead of Bard. Plus any innings you can conserve with Bard now could pay off later as there is little chance he can give you more than 150 or so this season. Not after throwing 73 last season.

 

Ideally you would like two lefties in the bullpen. But Andrew Miller has been hurt and Justin Thomas hasn't shown enough to unseat one of the righthanders. Tough break for Aceves going back to the bullpen. But if Bard can't handle the rotation, Aceves could get his chance later on in the season. Bobby Valentine likes Michael Bowden. Padilla, in theory at least, should be able to go multiple innings if needed.

 

Disabled List (7)

Daisuke Matsuzaka RHP

John Lackey RHP

Bobby Jenks RHP

Rich Hill, LHP

Andrew Miller LHP

Carl Crawford OF

Ryan Kalish OF

 

Explanation: Seven players on the DL before the season even starts? Dr. James Andrews should open a walk-in clinic in a back room at the Cask 'n Flagon.

 

Lackey and (quite possibly) Jenks are done for the year as they recover from surgery. Matsuzaka is on a sometime-in-June timetable barring a setback. Hill has made remarkable process and is throwing the ball better than any other lefty reliever in camp. But rehab protocol demands he build up gradually. Crawford isn't close to getting into a game. We could we talking more late April with him. Miller has so far had elbow and hamstring issues. Given that he is out of options, the Sox will happily allow him to dwell on the DL. Kalish has started baseball activities and should return to at least Pawtucket later this season.

It will be interesting to see who Miller replaces when he is off the DL. Bowden has no options, and I think Padilla could also refuse a minor league assignment after he has been promoted to the big club.

[SoxSport]

Cafardo this morning seems to be bending a bit--maybe after a little talk with his boss. He now says Aviles has had a good spring--no mention of Iglesias. And he has climbed on board to Bard starting. Actually, most of the wavering about Bard has been generated by the media. I don't think the management has changed their view one bit about him starting. I do think bringing him in the 8th inning that one appearance was ill-conceived--a mistake by V.

 

The spin in the Globe, except for Cafardo, has been Aviles for his hitting and "holding his own" at SS.

And, of course, how dreadfully poor a hitter Iglesias is. No mention of the fact, with their questionable pitching and left side infield defense, they need Iglesias' range more than they need Aviles' bat. Much more.

 

Lavarnway? No mention. The Red Sox have had a habit in recent years of leaving Florida without their best team-- thanks to their undying loyalties to a few over-the-hill veterans.

They have managed to break that cord, but you still have to wonder if there are enough opportunities being afforded for young players on this team.

[a700hitter]

Cafardo this morning seems to be bending a bit--maybe after a little talk with his boss. He now says Aviles has had a good spring--no mention of Iglesias. And he has climbed on board to Bard starting. Actually, most of the wavering about Bard has been generated by the media. I don't think the management has changed their view one bit about him starting. I do think bringing him in the 8th inning that one appearance was ill-conceived--a mistake by V.

 

The spin in the Globe, except for Cafardo, has been Aviles for his hitting and "holding his own" at SS.

And, of course, how dreadfully poor a hitter Iglesias is. No mention of the fact, with their questionable pitching and left side infield defense, they need Iglesias' range more than they need Aviles' bat. Much more.

 

Lavarnway? No mention. The Red Sox have had a habit in recent years of leaving Florida without their best team-- thanks to their undying loyalties to a few over-the-hill veterans.

They have managed to break that cord, but you still have to wonder if there are enough opportunities being afforded for young players on this team.

Aviles has done nothing but pound the ball this spring. His offense has been very impressive, and his D has been adequate.

[Spudboy]

Aviles has done nothing but pound the ball this spring. His offense has been very impressive' date=' and his D has been adequate.[/quote']

 

I have not seen much of the ST games but what I have seen of Aviles he sure makes solid contact and gets on base at a good clip. I think he's going to pepper the Monster with line drives. I hope he does have an adequate glove. We'll need it!

[a700hitter]

I have not seen much of the ST games but what I have seen of Aviles he sure makes solid contact and gets on base at a good clip. I think he's going to pepper the Monster with line drives. I hope he does have an adequate glove. We'll need it!

He's demonstrated a good Fenway stroke at Fenway South.

[jung]

Aviles has had a great spring "against Laffey". As I said in another post if Mike could hit against Laffey for a career he would be going to the HOF as a result. The Sox have had Laffey in two of the last 5 games (I think, maybe 6 games) and Aviles has pounded him both times.

 

The point is I don't think Aviles plate performance would be that impressive without seeing Laffey twice in the last 7 days.

 

Over the course of a season. Iggy's defense would turn out to be more valuable preventing runs especially for this team, than Aviles offense combines with his defense.

 

His range is not adequate for a SS and I hate the way the Sox have regularly taken utility defenders and plugged them into a plus defensive position like SS (probably the consummate plus defensive position) just because they can "play" the position without tripping over themselves and they have a plus bat.

 

Iggy is never going to climb to 250 in the majors. Get over it and get on with it. We are past the steroid era and it is time to stop thinking about every hitter in terms of that damn left field wall!

[Spudboy]

I don't know that Iggy will "NEVER CLIMB TO 250" in the majors. How do you?

[Elktonnick]

Aviles has had a great spring "against Laffey". As I said in another post if Mike could hit against Laffey for a career he would be going to the HOF as a result. The Sox have had Laffey in two of the last 5 games (I think, maybe 6 games) and Aviles has pounded him both times.

 

The point is I don't think Aviles plate performance would be that impressive without seeing Laffey twice in the last 7 days.

 

Over the course of a season. Iggy's defense would turn out to be more valuable preventing runs especially for this team, than Aviles offense combines with his defense.

 

His range is not adequate for a SS and I hate the way the Sox have regularly taken utility defenders and plugged them into a plus defensive position like SS (probably the consummate plus defensive position) just because they can "play" the position without tripping over themselves and they have a plus bat.

 

Iggy is never going to climb to 250 in the majors. Get over it and get on with it. We are past the steroid era and it is time to stop thinking about every hitter in terms of that damn left field wall!

 

I agree. Iggy at 235 is fine by me, especially on this team. I suspect that Aviles will end up playing a lot of 3rd base. Call it a hunch but Youklis won't play 100 games this year. My dark house position player is Spears. The only position he can't play is catcher. I'd love see him with the big club. I am not sold on Punto, nor Sweeney for that matter.

[jung]

I don't know for a fact that he will not climb to 250 in the majors but the Sox stopped grooming him to improve his hitting substantially long before V got here.

 

The point is that they should not wait for him to improve his hitting when that is not how he is going to earn his keep anyway and they need him now.

 

If they really wanted him to improve his hitting they would have left him in AA where the opposing pitchers are generally developing apace, mainly developing their secondary pitches. The Sox decided not to do that and as a result exposed him to the possibility that he would never really hit anything because he is has never seen anything he can hit! He has not hit in AAA. What a surprise....what a shock!

 

I think based on performance, expectation and the road the Sox have taken him down, Iggy can climb above the Mendoza line and can likely even stay there for a career if he is handled properly. He does have decent straight line speed and should be able to leg out some infield hits and lay down a bunt for a hit on occasion.

 

I also think they should bring him up now because V is one of the few guys in the Sox organization that knows how to appreciate him and help him improve. While I am not the biggest V fan in the world, V might be the one guy that can actually help Iggy continue to develop as a major league SS. He is one of the few guys in the Sox organization that is not enamored with that damn left field wall and that knows how to use a plus defensive SS. It just so happens that V is also our ML Manager.

[Bellhorn04]

jung, I'm not sure the Sox organization is enamored with the left field wall. As has been noted, they have drafted a lot of left-handed hitters, and their big acquisitions last year were both lefty hitters.