Ben Cherington

[a700hitter]

Nope.

 

I said he wasn't allowed to do his job last year. How is that his fault?

 

You are judging his performance based on a month. Did you forget that he found a team stupid enough to get rid of that cancer Beckett, Crawford and Gonzalez as well?

One school of thought on that trade is that JH was the moving force on that trade. Make up your mind is he a puppet or not. He was a puppet when he didn't make moves, but he was the mastermind of the huge salary dump? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you think calling him a puppet is defending him, good for you. As I said earlier, i don't care who is calling the shots. I just want the team to be rebuilt enough not to play some meaningful games after the first week of August.

[SoxSport]

It's foolish to think Cherington pulled that salary dump with the Dodgers off. Two independent news sources outside of Boston reported in some detail the deal was made at the owners' meetings by Henry and Kasten, who represented the Dodger owners. A deal of this magnitude is made at the ownership level--obviously.

 

Where the front offices undoubtedly came in would be in the selection of the prospects coming to Boston. The owners wouldn't be expected to deal with that.

 

The Boston media, at least some of it, chose to attach Cherington's name to the deal--partly because that's the way the Red Sox announced it--the way Henry wanted it. As a signal of support for Cherington, who had a mediocre first year as GM. Plus I'm almost sure Cherington et al were involved in the prospects--what they are expected to know. I think they did a good job there.

[jacksonianmarch]

Of course the deal was struck through the higher ups. You think this first yr GM puppet was the guy given the keys to the 2+ billion dollar ferrari without strings attached? Especially when the team would be gutted in the process?

[Elktonnick]

While I have a very low opinion of Cherrington who IMO is way over his head, the role of GM in MLB has dimished since the days of Joe Cronin, Dick O'Connell Lou Gorman and those of that era. Perhaps the greatest GM of all time Branch Rickey was originally hired as "business manager" I think Cherrington functions more as a baseball operations coordinator. Everyone knows the real decisions are made above his "pay grade."

[Behindenemylines]

Toronto signed Melky and look like they are going for it in 2013. I hope their is a Sox plan or it could a long 2013 with Sox finishing in last again. BC is saying all of the right things, but actions speak louder then words. I'm hoping the Sox make a splah at the winter meetings because I'm tried of seeing everyone else in the division improve themselves.

[seabeachfred]

You are putting a bigger slam on Cherries than any of us. Calling him a stooge and a puppet is not exactly a compliment.

 

It would be nice to take SCM's advice and give the guy a chance to redeem himself but his own words betray him....to wit....WHEN THIS SEASON IS OVER I EXPECT TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING. Those were Benny's own words and so far he has made glacial seem like Speedy Gonzales. The guy operates at two levels---slower and slowest and seems to have a great deal of trouble pulling the trigger or even making a decision. How all this inactivity and the paltry move of getting a second string catcher adds up to hitting the ground running is beyond me. If the guy is a stooge as I personally suspect we have total dysfunction in the front office. The last four years have been a disaster and all the good will that Prune Face Henry had garnered in his first half-dozen years as majority owner has been wiped away like piss down the porcelan.

 

Now players like Hunter and Cabrera have signed nice contracts the prices for people like LaRoche and Napoli will only go higher. Cherington no doubt will also fail to resign Cody Ross and most likely we will get a lesser player like the fast fading Shane Victorino who has less power and run producing ability than Ross has. Sorry guys, I think I have Cherington pegged and have since he became a GM. He is stooge and, worse, is unfit for the job.

[SoxSport]

While I have a very low opinion of Cherrington who IMO is way over his head, the role of GM in MLB has dimished since the days of Joe Cronin, Dick O'Connell Lou Gorman and those of that era. Perhaps the greatest GM of all time Branch Rickey was originally hired as "business manager" I think Cherrington functions more as a baseball operations coordinator. Everyone knows the real decisions are made above his "pay grade."

 

My impression is they gave the keys to the Ferrari to Epstein, and look what happened.

 

Also, Cherington is a first year GM and you wouldn't expect him to have the authority to spend big bucks on his own. Notice they re-hired James and a few other experienced scouts to assist in talent evaluations in the FO.

 

The big money stakes have really changed things from the old days. Big ticket items need approval from ownership these days--everywhere.

[Elktonnick]

My impression is they gave the keys to the Ferrari to Epstein, and look what happened.

 

Also, Cherington is a first year GM and you wouldn't expect him to have the authority to spend big bucks on his own. Notice they re-hired James and a few other experienced scouts to assist in talent evaluations in the FO.

 

The big money stakes have really changed things from the old days. Big ticket items need approval from ownership these days--everywhere.

 

I think all the evidence suggests that John Henry is playing a larger role in the day to day decisions of running this club, as evidenced bu his comments regarding Bill James. Cherries is merely a staff aide with a fancy title.

[seabeachfred]

I think all the evidence suggests that John Henry is playing a larger role in the day to day decisions of running this club, as evidenced bu his comments regarding Bill James. Cherries is merely a staff aide with a fancy title.

 

We could get a better handle on this and all patsy Ben needs to do is to announce that he going after this and that guy to sign contracts with the Red Sox and make them a monetary offer that isn't a cheap joke. If he goes through with it and we get one or two or three of the said players we would be assurred that t he guy is in charge and pulling the trigger. If those offers are s uddenly contradicted or pulled back even the pollyannas on all the boards would be able to see that the guy is nothing more than a flnky and that Lucchino still has his rotten palsied hands on the Red Sox ship of state and is on co urse to run the team into the ground as he did with the Orioles and Padres before both teams got new ownership and ran the bum out of town. We need answers very quickly as to whether there is someone in charge or if we as dysfntional as we've been the past few years.

 

For my part I have absolutely no confidence in Cherington and believe he is four packs of turd in a one pound package.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

[example1]

Why should Cherington do anything to convince you of anything? Why should he care about the arbitrary mental timelines of people out to confirm their own theories about his ineptitude?

[User Name]

Fred, can we get a couple of posts from ya that aren't rants? Maybe something about how nice the weather is?

[Behindenemylines]

BC's words and actions have not been in line this of season, unless he has been in discussion with teams and FA setting up deals with both. I think the Nation has a fear of last off season and repeating that and then going through another 2012 season in 2013.

[SoxSport]

I have a hunch Henry will make a splash and try to sign Hamilton. They need the big star to replace AdGon, and they are one team who can absorb the cost, plus risk the downside in a division that is slipping away from them.

[mvp 78]

Fred, can we get a couple of posts from ya that aren't rants? Maybe something about how nice the weather is?

 

I really liked the "rotten palsied hands" comment about LL though. Screw that guy.

[reYoukilis]

I dont want to be in last place again but I dont think we HAVE to make the playoffs either. BC has said he's trying to be patient and smart, its way too early to judge whether he's living by those words or not.

 

Also consider who won the last three World Series. San Fran twice and St Louis. Why? Not because of high priced batters but because of solidity in all phases of the game, especially pitching.

[jung]

Well for one thing I don't think any of the guys I really thought the Sox would possibly be targeting have disappeared off the board as yet. Guys have been signed and some trades have happened but not necessarily guys you would think the Sox would have been after anyway. Johnson might have been the one guy the Sox might have been after but they sure as heck would have been hard pressed to mess with the deal that went down that included Johnson. The only other guy I really thought they would take a run at that is gone was Cabrera cause he would go fairly cheaply. I have to think that Cabrera's agent gave them a shot. They must not have offered for him what the Jays offered. Maybe I thought the Sox would at least make an offer for him but maybe in truth they had no interest.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Juan Pierre signed to the Marlins, cue the "Cherington sucks posts". He's suh a good speedy OF, Ben is an idiot!!!

 

 

Juan Pierre was the reason I started playing baseball, I'm so catching much more Marlins games.

[ibot2much]

What is so dificult to understand? People want action. Ben said that he would hit the ground running after the WS and so far nothing. Granted, under normal circumstances ( not coming in last ), the RS fan base would be more patient...not this year. After suffering through several "bridge" years that ended up going nowhere under the most over rated GM in baseball, the fan base is disgusted.

 

We also are concerned that Ben was an underling to the MORGMIB so what did he learn?

[example1]

Action for actions sake would be foolish and would leave the exact same group of fans complaining when hasty moves don't work out. For all we know they could be acting really aggressively with numerous FAs and on many trades with players and teams trying to feel out the market themselves. Given that it is mid-November (not mid February) the people who mock your indignation would just ask for a small bit of patience. We might all be criticizing Ben in a few months but right now, when many places say he's the most active team out there seems unnecessary.

[Spitball]

Google "mlb off season trade and free agent activity" for any given year, and you will find there is rarely much activity in October and November. In fact, there is generally little significant activity until the major free agents start signing. Teams will then start to size up the market and begin making moves.

[a700hitter]

We might all be criticizing Ben in a few months but right now, when many places say he's the most active team out there seems unnecessary.

Are we supposed to give him credit for working the phones? I don't think so. His worth will be proved by the moves he makes. I have worked with many people who are a whirlwind of activity and work very long hours who get outproduced by others in a fraction of the time without breaking a sweat. If you want us to acknowledge that Cherries is trying hard, I'll give you that, but it is meaningless.

[example1]

I don't want you to give anybody credit for anything and never said as much. Another poster was complaining that nothing was getting done and I simply said that just because no moves have been made does not mean nothing is being done. Deals and signings usually take time and finding the right deals usually takes exploration.

 

You say consistently that you aren't criticizing him an that I misread your intentions. Yet you jump into this discussion, seemingly arguing against my call to be patient and withhold criticism. If you are advocating not withholding criticism them you are advocating criticism (at least by others). You have said you are patient and envision something by early December, yet you are choosing to argue with a post where I say essentially the same thing but without the December deadline. Weird.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

How bad the Sox have been looking the past few years, I'd want them to take their time and build a nice solid team. What's the rush? I don't want a team that'll be good for a year, I want a team that we build on and will be a contender for multiple years.

[a700hitter]

I don't want you to give anybody credit for anything and never said as much. Another poster was complaining that nothing was getting done and I simply said that just because no moves have been made does not mean nothing is being done. Deals and signings usually take time and finding the right deals usually takes exploration.

 

You say consistently that you aren't criticizing him an that I misread your intentions. Yet you jump into this discussion, seemingly arguing against my call to be patient and withhold criticism. If you are advocating not withholding criticism them you are advocating criticism (at least by others). You have said you are patient and envision something by early December, yet you are choosing to argue with a post where I say essentially the same thing but without the December deadline. Weird.

People can criticize him all that they want. That makes no difference to me. I just don't like to be accused of dispensing the criticism when I am not. That being said no activity is no activity. Telling me that they are really busy in the background is meaningless. I'll save my criticism/praise for the actual activity or when inactivity reaches a point where he has missed most of the good opportunities. That would be around February 1st.

[redsoxfan3]

How bad the Sox have been looking the past few years, I'd want them to take their time and build a nice solid team. What's the rush? I don't want a team that'll be good for a year, I want a team that we build on and will be a contender for multiple years.

 

That is the thing, we can make moves now without trading away our prospects. We need to wait for some guys like Bradley, Bogaerts, Brentz, De La Rosa, Webster, Barnes, etc. to develop. We can sign FA's to short-term deals (1-2 year contracts) to fill the gaps until those guys are ready. I think we can still build a solid team for the future, while signing short-term contracts now and have immediate success.

[a700hitter]

How bad the Sox have been looking the past few years, I'd want them to take their time and build a nice solid team. What's the rush? I don't want a team that'll be good for a year, I want a team that we build on and will be a contender for multiple years.

I'm willing to settle for respectable. Last place and less than 70 wins is a low bar for next year. I don't think hoping for a .500 team that doesn't embarrass itself is a very high or unreasonable expectation. Some meaningful games after August 1st is not an entitlement mentality.

[example1]

Action for actions sake would be foolish and would leave the exact same group of fans complaining when hasty moves don't work out. For all we know they could be acting really aggressively with numerous FAs and on many trades with players and teams trying to feel out the market themselves. Given that it is mid-November (not mid February) the people who mock your indignation would just ask for a small bit of patience. We might all be criticizing Ben in a few months but right now, when many places say he's the most active team out there seems unnecessary.

 

People can criticize him all that they want. That makes no difference to me. I just don't like to be accused of dispensing the criticism when I am not. That being said no activity is no activity. Telling me that they are really busy in the background is meaningless. I'll save my criticism/praise for the actual activity or when inactivity reaches a point where he has missed most of the good opportunities. That would be around February 1st.

 

So you agree in just about every way with me. Glad we have that settled now.

[example1]

I'm willing to settle for respectable. Last place and less than 70 wins is a low bar for next year. I don't think hoping for a .500 team that doesn't embarrass itself is a very high or unreasonable expectation. Some meaningful games after August 1st is not an entitlement mentality.

 

This. Combines with the introduction of some younger players to get them started in a less pressured season would be nice. Bradley Jr and maybe Xander could both be ready. Trade Ellsbury for something unless he's willing to resign.

[a700hitter]

So you agree in just about every way with me. Glad we have that settled now.

You've been the one in my face this past week about things I haven't proposed or posted. You have been disagreeing with some phantom a700 the past week.

[seabeachfred]

Toronto signed Melky and look like they are going for it in 2013. I hope their is a Sox plan or it could a long 2013 with Sox finishing in last again. BC is saying all of the right things, but actions speak louder then words. I'm hoping the Sox make a splah at the winter meetings because I'm tried of seeing everyone else in the division improve themselves.

 

Ben is slower than dirt, is risk averse and takes eons to make a decision, BUT HE COULD ALWAYS TALK-----and really that's all we've gotten out of him so far. Some like SCM say he might be biding his time. OK on that, but I saw what went down last year. He was awful....and it's not like we're coming off a drumfire season. Hell, we were 69-93 this past season, dead last in the division and with another disastrous September. I suggested we could find out if Cherington really has the balls to act like a credible GM and actually say he is going after this or that guy. There's no secret because every other GM knows what we need---but by dithering and crawling at a snail's pace will not get the job done and I would like what kind of Benny defense is going down if people like Swisher, Napoli, Ross and Kuroda come and go and we're left holding the bag on the stiffs that are left over.

 

Because of our miserable 2012 season, our choke collapse of 2011 and the fact that for the last five seasons we haven't won dung, I think a little sense of urgency might be a good idea.