Ben Cherington

[seabeachfred]

Why should Cherington do anything to convince you of anything? Why should he care about the arbitrary mental timelines of people out to confirm their own theories about his ineptitude?

 

He doesn't since I have already accepted that the guy is a total d ud and unfit for his job. To me he is a patsy and nothing more, but it might help you a tad if he showed some ability I and others don't think he has. If we have a replica of the off season we had last winter it is going to be very difficult for you at best to maintain the facade of a Cherington fan when evidence to the contrary will be so overwhelming. OTOH, I can concede being wrong if proven wrong, but I saw it last winter. No matter how miserable he does he's still going to have his little helpers shuking his corn some next Spring

[redsoxfan3]

He doesn't since I have already accepted that the guy is a total d ud and unfit for his job. To me he is a patsy and nothing more, but it might help you a tad if he showed some ability I and others don't think he has. If we have a replica of the off season we had last winter it is going to be very difficult for you at best to maintain the facade of a Cherington fan when evidence to the contrary will be so overwhelming. OTOH, I can concede being wrong if proven wrong, but I saw it last winter. No matter how miserable he does he's still going to have his little helpers shuking his corn some next Spring

 

I can understand what you are saying. The approach last offseason and this offseason should be extremely different. We were a 1st place team for a majority of 2011, and then we s*** our pants come September. Cherington and the FO did not feel that we needed to do a whole lot to improve the team last offseason because of some of the success we had in 2011. That was obviously a mistake and we continued the horrible play in 2012. BC avoided getting SP pitchers last offseason, aside from garbage players. This offseason, SP is clearly the number one need. In my book, this is his last chance. We have plenty of money to sign players this offseason, unlike last. We need at least one SP (preferably two), we need two corner OF's, we need a 1B, and need to think about SS and C for next year as well. He has a lot of work to do.

 

This is his last chance to show the fans that he can do something and that he is fit for the job. I am not ready to write him off yet, but if he does not have a good offseason, then I will be on the BC is unfit for his job list. There are players out there that we can add to this team to make us a contender. I am not saying we will win a WS, but with the right moves we can definitely make it to the playoffs. We will not be able to get everyone that we want, but please stay away from guys like Aaron Cook. Hopefully he actually does have a "plan."

[example1]

He doesn't since I have already accepted that the guy is a total d ud and unfit for his job. To me he is a patsy and nothing more, but it might help you a tad if he showed some ability I and others don't think he has. If we have a replica of the off season we had last winter it is going to be very difficult for you at best to maintain the facade of a Cherington fan when evidence to the contrary will be so overwhelming. OTOH, I can concede being wrong if proven wrong, but I saw it last winter. No matter how miserable he does he's still going to have his little helpers shuking his corn some next Spring

 

I would say that if the offseason goes by with no significant moves that are intended to make the team better--short term splash (Josh Hamilton, etc.,) or longterm development (trade for young guy like Upton, Stanton, etc.,) then I will share your disappointment. Of course, the other variable here is that Henry could be shopping the team and unwilling to spend anything significant until that deal has been made.

[seabeachfred]

I would say that if the offseason goes by with no significant moves that are intended to make the team better--short term splash (Josh Hamilton, etc.,) or longterm development (trade for young guy like Upton, Stanton, etc.,) then I will share your disappointment. Of course, the other variable here is that Henry could be shopping the team and unwilling to spend anything significant until that deal has been made.

 

Fair enough Ex but there has been no report or rumor that Henry is looking for a buyer for his team but is rather going to play an more important role in the team since he has given up his b usiness. Of course, he isn't a whiz himself when it comes to baseball knowledge and could wind up meddling too much and make things worse. Still it would mean he has the money and is willing to spend it. However, if Feb. comes and we the likes of types like Cook, Germano, Silv, Repko, Padilla, Lillibrige, Thomas, Gathright, Hermida, the types we've gotten stuck with these past five or so years, I think there should a lot of alarm bells going off on this board and more defending this poor excuse for a GM

[seabeachfred]

I would say that if the offseason goes by with no significant moves that are intended to make the team better--short term splash (Josh Hamilton, etc.,) or longterm development (trade for young guy like Upton, Stanton, etc.,) then I will share your disappointment. Of course, the other variable here is that Henry could be shopping the team and unwilling to spend anything significant until that deal has been made.

 

Fair enough Ex but there has been no report or rumor that Henry is looking for a buyer for his team but is rather going to play an more important role in the team since he has given up his b usiness. Of course, he isn't a whiz himself when it comes to baseball knowledge and could wind up meddling too much and make things worse. Still it would mean he has the money and is willing to spend it. However, if Feb. comes and we the likes of types like Cook, Germano, Silv, Repko, Padilla, Lillibrige, Thomas, Gathright, Hermida, the types we've gotten stuck with these past five or so years, I think there should a lot of alarm bells going off on this board and no more defending this poor excuse for a GM

[mvp 78]

Actually, there have been a ton of rumors that he's shopping the team.

[example1]

Actually, there have been a ton of rumors that he's shopping the team.

 

Yes there have. I don't believe them because I think they are at the pre-smoke stage (i.e. where there's smoke there's fire).

[seabeachfred]

Actually, there have been a ton of rumors that he's shopping the team.

 

Well MVP, I concede to you on that with no hesitation whatsoever. I'm out here in So.Cal and we rarely get any stories coming out of Boston. We have to hear the same old worn out propaganda pieces on the damn Dodgers and their kinky neighbors to the South. What I do find interested is that you give the impression that you believe that Henry is getting ready to sell the team while our friend Ex thinks it's all a smoke screen.

 

So how the hell am I going to be able to separate fact from fiction. If the Red Sox are not going to be sold (via Ex) I would think that money will be spent to upgrade the team. If you are right we could be in for a real skinflint and cheapskate winter. What a disappointing year.....The Lakers sucked, the Red Sox sucked worse, the Raiders and Dolphins are pathetic and even my party came a cropper this election. I can use some good news for a change.

[bubbakeg52]

Pipe down fred..You have orders to start spreading rumors the Red Sox are going to get Asdrubel Cabrera. It will only help

[mvp 78]

I think Dracula would sell in a heartbeat (if he had one), but I think he'll have trouble finding a buyer. I'm just glad he got the winning bidfor the Sox and McCourt got the Dodgers instead.

[jacksonianmarch]

From a sheer business perspective, Henry has the right and the obligation to his shareholders to inquire about the worth of his team. If what he says is true, then the sox shareholders havent taken dividends on their investment, meaning they have seen zero return on investment. By getting the estimated worth of the franchise, it will not only give the investors some idea as to what their part is worth, but also might give Henry the impetus to buy some of his investors out.

 

Also, if I was the owner of the Yankees (to make it more equal) and I knew that I could sell my share for 4-5X what I bought it for pre-recession, then I would sell in a f***ing heartbeat. There is being a businessman who is a fan, and there is being a fan who is an idiot investor. Henry is no idiot investor

[bubbakeg52]

I'm liking the idea that Luchinno runs the team.. Ya what I said!

[bubbakeg52]

I'm spitting with the big boys...My mom would be proud!

[seabeachfred]

Pipe down fred..You have orders to start spreading rumors the Red Sox are going to get Asdrubel Cabrera. It will only help

 

Yes sir Bub, I'll get right on it. You know, though, this is as far fetched as some may think it is. Francona is new to Cleveland and we would like to avoid the abuse he got in Philly (totally deserved) and what he had to endure in Boston (deserved only the last three years). I really think Cleveland is desirous of rebuilding its franchise and this way it would give Terry and GM Antonetti a few years of cover to retool their team. Cabrera would net them two or three good young prospects and he is sure a hell of a lot better than what we can put out at SS next season. I think I would like such a deal just fine. However, keep in mind that we will cost us a blue chip prospect and a gold one as well.

[seabeachfred]

I think Dracula would sell in a heartbeat (if he had one), but I think he'll have trouble finding a buyer. I'm just glad he got the winning bidfor the Sox and McCourt got the Dodgers instead.

 

Wow MVP, talk about putting things in perspective-----right on my friend, and damn good on your part to remind me of that. I live in the LA area and I can tell you McCourt was a sleaze bag of the first order, a top rated liar and phony who kept talking about how he was going to make his team great but nearly killed the franchise. There would have been no titles in 2004 and 2007 if he has gotten the team.

 

I remember some guy at a local eatery tell me his good fortune was our bad fortune until I took off my windbreaker and showed him my Red Sox shirt. Appaently you Bostinians had this guy pegged right from the start.

[SoxSport]

While Toronto steals half the Marlins team, the Red Sox are interviewing for their 2nd batting coach.

That doesn't bode too well for the fans in Boston. They are patient, but at some point they have to ask when this team is going to act on plugging some obvious holes and getting better? Maybe a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes.Maybe not. There is zero rumor talk in the media about the Red Sox. That could be a good sign, but they better get off their asses and do something pretty soon--before the prizes get scarfed up by other teams. I have my doubts about Mr Procrastinator Cherington.

[mvp 78]

Not fond of the Lance Berkman rumor then?

[SoxSport]

Not fond of the Lance Berkman rumor then?

 

Why would a team like the Red Sox be interested in a guy on his last legs? Is this a joke?

[seabeachfred]

While Toronto steals half the Marlins team, the Red Sox are interviewing for their 2nd batting coach.

That doesn't bode too well for the fans in Boston. They are patient, but at some point they have to ask when this team is going to act on plugging some obvious holes and getting better? Maybe a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes.Maybe not. There is zero rumor talk in the media about the Red Sox. That could be a good sign, but they better get off their asses and do something pretty soon--before the prizes get scarfed up by other teams. I have my doubts about Mr Procrastinator Cherington.

 

For what it's worth, I have had doubts about that patsy since he became GM. If you notice almost every time he is in a picture there is Lucchino sitting right next to him. The guy is not only a procrastinator, he is totally risk averse, afraid to make a move, and always late in making one. He appears to have absolutely no confidence in himself. Now let me say right off that I HOPE I AM VERY WRONG AND CATCH HELL FOR IT IF THAT IS PROVEN BY SOME GREAT MOVES SOON, but I'm guessing that when all is said and done our colleagues on this board will be agreeing with us that Cherington as GM is a total disaster. I think the guy is worthless.

[SCM33]

For what it's worth, I have had doubts about that patsy since he became GM. If you notice almost every time he is in a picture there is Lucchino sitting right next to him. The guy is not only a procrastinator, he is totally risk averse, afraid to make a move, and always late in making one. He appears to have absolutely no confidence in himself. Now let me say right off that I HOPE I AM VERY WRONG AND CATCH HELL FOR IT IF THAT IS PROVEN BY SOME GREAT MOVES SOON, but I'm guessing that when all is said and done our colleagues on this board will be agreeing with us that Cherington as GM is a total disaster. I think the guy is worthless.

 

Unreadable.

[a700hitter]

Unreadable.

Unnecessary.

[Spitball]

I did not include the notes on the catching and some other topics. These notes relate to this thread.

 

Red Sox Notes:

 

By Steve Adams [November 19 at 10:47pm CST]

 

Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe interviewed Red Sox GM Ben Cherington on a number of Hot Stove topics earlier today, including the pace of the offseason, a pair of Rosses, and the team's bulk of quality catchers. Here are the highlights...

 

•Cherington doesn't feel that the team is moving at a slow pace thus far this offseason. He tells Abraham that the team is well ahead of where it was at this juncture in 2011: "We’ve spent a lot more time on player issues at this time as compared to last year. That doesn’t always turn into announcements."

•The Red Sox will have a "significant" payroll and will be adding free-agent talent to the team, according to Cherington. He also wouldn't rule out trading prospects for established talent, though he stressed that he'd need to acquire another long-term piece in return if he were to do so.

 

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#KRvGqdU1HFALi7dg.99

[mvp 78]

Why would a team like the Red Sox be interested in a guy on his last legs? Is this a joke?

 

Just refuting your "zero rumors" comment, that's all.

[jacksonianmarch]

He may be on his last legs, but he is also a guy you buy low on. When he is healthy, he mashes everything. When he isnt, he's on the shelf. He's had surgery, he is presumably healthy, he will come on a 1 yr deal on the cheap and if he continues to hit, you have your protection for Ortiz. Hell, I wish the Yankees would be looking at this opportunity

[ibot2much]

Unreadable.

 

No, it is not. It is literate and it makes sense.

[jacksonianmarch]

For what it's worth, I have had doubts about that patsy since he became GM. If you notice almost every time he is in a picture there is Lucchino sitting right next to him. The guy is not only a procrastinator, he is totally risk averse, afraid to make a move, and always late in making one. He appears to have absolutely no confidence in himself. Now let me say right off that I HOPE I AM VERY WRONG AND CATCH HELL FOR IT IF THAT IS PROVEN BY SOME GREAT MOVES SOON, but I'm guessing that when all is said and done our colleagues on this board will be agreeing with us that Cherington as GM is a total disaster. I think the guy is worthless.

 

Guys, while he may be redundant and sometimes inane, Fred has been pretty spot on the last 1 plus seasons in calling the sox moves what they were, crap. In terms of his point, I think it is less about Cherington lacking confidence and more about him lacking power. Ben is a figurehead, and if you think he actually orchestrated the Melancon and Bailey moves, I have a bridge to sell you. He was barely in his new digs when the deals were struck. My guess is Lucchino saw them as potentially risky from a PR standpoint and decided to stick the new boy wonder's neck out there. I also think it is pretty obvious that LL put himself into the front of the Dodgers negotiations since they knew that sox fans would be receptive of it. LL is not a great baseball man, but he is a phenomenal PR and marketing person. He is going to try to come off squeaky clean in everything he does. And by having Ben around, he can decide which deals he can take a PR backseat on and which ones he can get out in front of. It likely means Ben won't be running this team for long. He'll be there through the sox turnaround and once the team looks like it is on the precipice of contending, I am guessing that LL will find someone else, make it look like his move and take all the credit

[onlybereaved]

Agreed. And Ben knows it too.

 

As long as decent moves are made and Boston starts playing better than the last 2 seasons, I really couldn't give a rats ass who is making those decisions.

[SoxSport]

He may be on his last legs, but he is also a guy you buy low on. When he is healthy, he mashes everything. When he isnt, he's on the shelf. He's had surgery, he is presumably healthy, he will come on a 1 yr deal on the cheap and if he continues to hit, you have your protection for Ortiz. Hell, I wish the Yankees would be looking at this opportunity

 

The Yankees keep piling up on LHd hitting oldies, who no longer have much value anywhere else but Yankee Stadium. They have been successful doing that for 60 years--going back to Big Klu and Johnny Mize. But how many of these guys do you need? Right now, they seem to have their fill of aging LHd hitters. Berkman would be a better fit in NY, but you never know with his knees. Besides, the Yankees had him a couple of years ago, and let him go because he looked washed up. He got in shape and came back well with the Cardinals. But I doubt his knees can hold up.

[SoxSport]

Agreed. And Ben knows it too.

 

As long as decent moves are made and Boston starts playing better than the last 2 seasons, I really couldn't give a rats ass who is making those decisions.

 

Somebody needs to light a fire under this guy. He always looks like he's in a fog.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees keep piling up on LHd hitting oldies, who no longer have much value anywhere else but Yankee Stadium. They have been successful doing that for 60 years--going back to Big Klu and Johnny Mize. But how many of these guys do you need? Right now, they seem to have their fill of aging LHd hitters. Berkman would be a better fit in NY, but you never know with his knees. Besides, the Yankees had him a couple of years ago, and let him go because he looked washed up. He got in shape and came back well with the Cardinals. But I doubt his knees can hold up.

 

Berkman is a switch hitter who, when healthy, can hit 30 bombs and OPS .900. He can also play a corner OF spot or 1b and DH when our elderly regulars are ready to play the field