Red Sox's Trade Deadline Wishlist Following Curtis Mead Blockbuster

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I think you're understimating how cheap the worse teams can be. 

Burger king was notorious for not spending a dime on market research of where to put their stores, they just looked at where McDonalds was going and set up shop as close to them as they could. 

We overestimate the value BTV has comparatively.  

[Old Red]

19 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

The early trade was an "overpay" by btv but it was still accepted.  

HE was DFA twice, so it seems the Red Sox could have gotten him a lot cheaper at some point, but I guess they had to wait until he started hitting some HR, which cost more.

[notin]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You liking something is not even a good example of what a Mets fan fan would like to start with, and throw in reports the Mets aren’t interested in unloading, or rebuilding it’s nothing from nothing leaves nothing.🙈

Now you speak for Mets’ fans, too?Im not surprised Mets don’t want to deal Lindor.  Right or wrong course of action, they just dropped three quarters of a billion on Soto and didn’t do so to rebuild in year two of that deal.  And while Lindor’s contract is bad, it’s not the worst on the team.  Semien and Manaea are both worse.   And maybe another deal or two are as well. But that wasn’t the question.  The question you posed was “if I was a Mets’ fan, would I like that trade for Lindor?”   And I answered it exactly as it was asked.

Of course the Mets are not averse to shedding the occasional questionable contract, like Nimmo. And they were willing to move him for a worse deal that was shorter term.  So maybe you don’t speak for the Mets as well as they do…

[notin]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

We overestimate the value BTV has comparatively.  

A surprising number of real trades di meet their model.

of course a more surprising number of people claim BTV is wrong because they feel they better understand player valuations…

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Now you speak for Mets’ fans, too?Im not surprised Mets don’t want to deal Lindor.  Right or wrong course of action, they just dropped three quarters of a billion on Soto and didn’t do so to rebuild in year two of that deal.  And while Lindor’s contract is bad, it’s not the worst on the team.  Semien and Manaea are both worse.   And maybe another deal or two are as well. But that wasn’t the question.  The question you posed was “if I was a Mets’ fan, would I like that trade for Lindor?”   And I answered it exactly as it was asked.

Of course the Mets are not averse to shedding the occasional questionable contract, like Nimmo. And they were willing to move him for a worse deal that was shorter term.  So maybe you don’t speak for the Mets as well as they do…

Saying you wouldn’t be a good example of what a Mets fan would like is speaking for Mets fans? You wouldn’t be a good example for anything, so you answered, and I answered back that you would be a bad example.

[notin]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Saying you wouldn’t be a good example of what a Mets fan would like is speaking for Mets fans? You wouldn’t be a good example for anything, so you answered, and I answered back that you would be a bad example.

Right.

Well thank you for being the pulse of Met Nation along with Red Sox Nation and the One True Voice of Baseball Fandom…

 

[Hugh2]

26 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

We overestimate the value BTV has comparatively.  

I don't disagree, but when you compare the surplus value at the time of actual trades it's very much on a lot.  So if someone posts a trade where one team is getting $60 surplus value it's almost certainly a bad trade.  Could it happen? sure but BTV has held up better than that 

Lets do it with actual trades this deadline and see how much it can vary. 

[Hugh2]

13 minutes ago, notin said:

A surprising number of real trades di meet their model.

of course a more surprising number of people claim BTV is wrong because they feel they better understand player valuations…

I would say the same thing MVP would, still would.....but it holds up surprisingly well.  Outliers will always exist as teams value guys differently 

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

Right.

Well thank you for being the pulse of Met Nation along with Red Sox Nation and the One True Voice of Baseball Fandom…

 

So you would pawn off Duran, and Mayer as a Red Sox fan, but would want them as a Met fan?🤭 Never been a pulse of RSN, but have a lot more of a notion than what you do, and that’s the bottom line cause Stone Cold says so.

[mvp 78]

28 minutes ago, notin said:

A surprising number of real trades di meet their model.

of course a more surprising number of people claim BTV is wrong because they feel they better understand player valuations…

I'm not claiming it's wrong. I'm just claiming that MLB teams have better proprietary models than it. I don't think that should be a shocking statement. 🤔

[mvp 78]

16 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I would say the same thing MVP would, still would.....but it holds up surprisingly well.  Outliers will always exist as teams value guys differently 

I think it relies on projection models that I don't think work all that well for every player (see: 2026 Willson Contreras, Wilyer Abreu). It's the best thing fans get to play around with. Trade talk online was much sillier before it existed TBH.

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

I think it relies on projection models that I don't think work all that well for every player (see: 2026 Willson Contreras, Wilyer Abreu). It's the best thing fans get to play around with. Trade talk online was much sillier before it existed TBH.

Yeah, I generally use it as a measuring stick.  If BTV grades the trade as fair I don't think that's the end all be all because it certianly doesn't entertain how the teams feel and value the players.  But if I plug the numbers in and one team is getting $60-$100 million in surplus value over the other I just know it's a trade that no team is going to entertain.  

It's a filter, and nothing more, and it's fun. 

[notin]

31 minutes ago, Old Red said:

So you would pawn off Duran, and Mayer as a Red Sox fan, but would want them as a Met fan?🤭 Never been a pulse of RSN, but have a lot more of a notion than what you do, and that’s the bottom line cause Stone Cold says so.

I never said I would “pawn off” either one. 
 

I do consider both to be available due to deoth at each’s respect position.  Duran, however, is a definite “sell low” candidate right now.  If I were a Mets’ fan, a team that just traded away Nimmo and watched it help crater the offense, I could absolutely get behind buying low on Duran. 
 

Now tell me as the self-appointed Voice of Reason - why is it you think Sox players with expensive contracts  like Story and Yoshida are completely unwanted around the league, but Lindor, who himself has struggled, is roughly the same age, but is more expensive for far more years than either Sox players - is strongly desired by Mets’ fans and impossible to pry away from them?

[notin]

13 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think it relies on projection models that I don't think work all that well for every player (see: 2026 Willson Contreras, Wilyer Abreu). It's the best thing fans get to play around with. Trade talk online was much sillier before it existed TBH.

Agreed, outside of the WAPM (inside joke), all projection models are flawed.  BTV isn’t definitive and never claims to be.  But it has enhanced trade talk significantly…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

I think BTV is using surplus and how close in value they were when deciding when to accept or not. 

Outliers exist, but it's really impressive how close it is on almost all real trades. 

Oh yes, that final value is what is used and should  be.

I'm just saying the player value assigned, which is increased by years of control, is the real indicator of how good the player is and what performance value he is projected to give.

For teams like the Mets and Dodgers, that line matters more than the one with the salary included.

Mead was assigned a 46 performance value for 4.4 years. That's about a 10 value per year.

Early was given a 59.8 for 5.4 years. That comes to about 10.5 per year and for a year longer.

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, notin said:

I never said I would “pawn off” either one. 
 

I do consider both to be available due to deoth at each’s respect position.  Duran, however, is a definite “sell low” candidate right now.  If I were a Mets’ fan, a team that just traded away Nimmo and watched it help crater the offense, I could absolutely get behind buying low on Duran. 
 

Now tell me as the self-appointed Voice of Reason - why is it you think Sox players with expensive contracts  like Story and Yoshida are completely unwanted around the league, but Lindor, who himself has struggled just as much if not more, is roughly the same age, but is more expensive for far more years than either Sox players - is strongly desired by Mets’ fans and impossible to pry away from them?

Pawn off is my words. Huh? Huh? You don’t think the Red Sox have been trying to get rid of Masa for at least two years now with NO success? I also don’t believe, and especially now that Story is in any low demand let alone high demand.  I have no idea what Mets fans think about Lindor, and nor do I care, but I would take a hard pass on him in a Red Sox uniform.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, notin said:

I never said I would “pawn off” either one. 
 

I do consider both to be available due to deoth at each’s respect position.  Duran, however, is a definite “sell low” candidate right now.  If I were a Mets’ fan, a team that just traded away Nimmo and watched it help crater the offense, I could absolutely get behind buying low on Duran. 
 

Now tell me as the self-appointed Voice of Reason - why is it you think Sox players with expensive contracts  like Story and Yoshida are completely unwanted around the league, but Lindor, who himself has struggled, is roughly the same age, but is more expensive for far more years than either Sox players - is strongly desired by Mets’ fans and impossible to pry away from them?

Well, Lindor is better, so there is that.

It's funny how people think when you suggest a trade you are 'giving up on" that player. Of course, sometimes some absurd suggestions are for only players under water. Duran and Mayer are not, although some Sox fans view them as such.

I was super high on Early, and last summer, when teams wanted one or the other, I did not want to trade either and felt Early was more of the "sure bet" of the two and more "ML ready." I still have strong feelings Early will do well to great. In now way is saying I like the Early-Mead trade anything close to a "pawn off" or "giving up on" trade.

You gotta give to get. For example, the value I had for Teel, Monty and others given up for Crochet was very high, but I still loved the trade.

Trades for high salary and or aging players are much more difficult to value.

[Duran Is The Man]

6 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Keeping Cheng on the roster probably requires them seeing Mead play 2b for a little while and seeing him underwhelm. 

Not sure they can keep Jones, Romy, Masa, Monasterio and Cheng on the same roster now. Cheng is the best SS, but another move has to be made and another after that if Story comes back in a few weeks. 

does he have to?

[Duran Is The Man]

5 hours ago, notin said:

They’re all rostered now, and even with Mead added the Sox still have one open 40 man roster spot.  Plus, let’s face it, very few tears would be shed if they DFA’d Brett Harris or Mickey Gasper. Not counting tears actually shed by Harris and Gasper, of course.

Do Monasterio and/or Romy have options?

who the hell is Brett Harris?

[notin]

17 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Pawn off is my words. Huh? Huh? You don’t think the Red Sox have been trying to get rid of Masa for at least two years now with NO success? I also don’t believe, and especially now that Story is in any low demand let alone high demand.  I have no idea what Mets fans think about Lindor, and nor do I care, but I would take a hard pass on him in a Red Sox uniform.

Find a post where I “pawned off” Duran.  Whether or not the Sox want to love Yoshida wasn’t even remotely thr question that you (naturally) completely avoided.  Not that I expected an actual answer…

[notin]

1 minute ago, Duran Is The Man said:

who the hell is Brett Harris?

Utility guy an acquired from the Athletics after he was DFAd.  His primary position is Expendable Extra…

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

Find a post where I “pawned off” Duran.  Whether or not the Sox want to love Yoshida wasn’t even remotely thr wuestion that you (naturally) completely avoided.  Not that I expected an actual answer…

He suggested you'd "pawn off Duran and Mayer," then moved the goalposts to Yoshida.

[Duran Is The Man]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

Utility guy an acquired from the Athletics after he was DFAd.  His primary position is Expendable Extra…

never heard of him. the ultimate nobody. probably doesn't even have a baseball card.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

never heard of him. the ultimate nobody. probably doesn't even have a baseball card.

Corner infielders with about 200 PAs and a sub .600 OPS. I think we got him as insurance for the Contreras suspension.

He did have an .850 OPS in AAA (900+ PAs) with 31 HRs in 800 ABs.

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, notin said:

Find a post where I “pawned off” Duran.  Whether or not the Sox want to love Yoshida wasn’t even remotely thr question that you (naturally) completely avoided.  Not that I expected an actual answer…

Huh? Huh? Huh? I already said pawn off was MY words. Use trade if you like, because that’s what was being discussed in the first place that I responded too.

[Old Red]

41 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He suggested you'd "pawn off Duran and Mayer," then moved the goalposts to Yoshida.

NO goal post moved at all. I wasn’t the one who mentioned Yoshida in the first place. As usual late to the conversation, got it wrong, and didn’t even add a cent to the conversation let alone two. You’ve tried to run the biggest pawnshop on here with your suggested trades especially for Masa, Duran, and Story. Must have gone broke by now with NO takers.

[moonslav59]

The updated needs list from the Brez POV:

1. SP'er.

2. RP'er

......

10. Catcher (C/DH) I'm not even sure RHB is more important than a LHB.

[JoeBrady]

6 hours ago, UtahSox said:

The deal is sitting there, the real one at least, and it’s ripe for the taking. Lindor
 

But it requires JH to do something he hasn’t done in years…. Close the spending gap to the big dogs. And take a player in his 30’s for probably a year or 2 longer than you really want him. 
 

Lindor costs you Mayer, Duran, and a top 7-8 prospect. You want to compete with Yankees without crushing your farm? There is the move RIGHT THERE. Maybe throw 1 more top 10 prospect add weaver and Peralta.

Red Sox get: Lindor, Weaver, Peralta (maybe 20m) 

Mets get: Duran, Mayer, Azocar, Delzine

 

 

 

 

Lindor is an under-water contract.  Without payroll relief, he shouldn't get anything back.  Let alone Mayer, Duran+.  I see no way Lindor happens.  Arias will likely be our 2027 SS.  I also see no interest in Peralta with our rotation.  But I do like Weaver.

[Hugh2]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

HE was DFA twice, so it seems the Red Sox could have gotten him a lot cheaper at some point, but I guess they had to wait until he started hitting some HR, which cost more.

What does it matter if he was DFA’d? If he performs how he had this year so what? Every other team could have got him too but they didn’t.

 

if he hits well, it’s a great trade, if early becomes an ACE and Mead becomes a pumpkin it will be a whole lot of egg of BreSLOWS face.

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

5 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

This trade provides the Mets with surplus value of $68.50 million and the Sox with $8.50  Breslow should be chased out of town if he ever makes a deal like this. 

The deal evens out when the Mets add in $80 million.  That turns Lindors contract into about $18.5 million per year. Still, I see Lindor moving to 2B sooner rather than later and we just traded for a guy who will play 2nd. 

Lindor and his agent have said that Lindor will not play 2nd base.