Red Sox sign Ranger Suarez. 5 years $130 Million

[mvp 78]

18 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

If Cora likes breslow and wants breslow in his role, then we are stuck with breslow until king cora says we can move on

If cora doesnt like breslow , breslow should be fired immediately

Cora can't even nut up to tell Raffy to grab a 1b mitt in ST. He should get canned first. 

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

No, its because run prevention elements include more than just pitching.

I understand the logic on your point, but where do you get 35/50% from?

even a bad defense is making 98% of the plays you should make.  If you are right I think you need to recheck those numbers.

 

Also, I think of it like this.  A good hitter is on average going to get 12% of the at bats.  But a good pitcher can pitch a complete game and shut down a team pitching 100% of the pitches.

im open to buying to your math (adjusted) but i still believe on a good day, elite pitching beats elite hitting.

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I understand the logic on your point, but where do you get 35/50% from?

even a bad defense is making 98% of the plays you should make.  If you are right I think you need to recheck those numbers.

 

Also, I think of it like this.  A good hitter is on average going to get 12% of the at bats.  But a good pitcher can pitch a complete game and shut down a team pitching 100% of the pitches.

im open to buying to your math (adjusted) but i still believe on a good day, elite pitching beats elite hitting.

okay, my main thing is that run prevention equals run creation.  If you think the run prevention side 35/15 is bad and its more like 40/10 even more, i wouldnt get triggered and id hear you out.

If baserunning = fielding in importance, than hitting the ball is prob pretty close to throwing the ball.

I just reject anythnign like pitches and defense wins because in my experience common sayings are for common men.

[drewski6]

Regarding does elite pitching beat elite hitting .... theres prob some data.  Like when the top 10% of ERA match up against top 10% of OPS, does the OPS go down more than the ERA goes up?

I dont want to go looking because i cant even find the zips projections by team

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

I dont want to go looking because i cant even find the zips projections by team

[moonslav59]

14 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I just reject anything like pitches and defense wins because in my experience common sayings are for common men.

I think you have to consider that when you have a great pitcher on the mound, he faces every batter, while in the game. That is an enormous value. A great batter might get 3-5 chances, buy he can also be pitched around.

I know you are talking about all batters vs all pitchers, so PAs for the offense are in general close to PAs against, so it seems "equal," but I feel having great pitchers, because the face all batters, seem to matter more.

Of course, offense matters, and it matters, a lot, but when we have Crochet on the mound, I'm not worried about the opps O.

[Hugh2]

28 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

.I just reject anythnign like pitches and defense wins because in my experience common sayings are for common men.

I think we've all seen that the elite teams that win it all often do both on a very good to elite level. 

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

I think we've all seen that the elite teams that win it all often do both on a very good to elite level. 

of course its better to be great at both.  Im prob fine leaving it there.  BUt I just really hate cliches.  I wanted John Farrell fired the first time i heard him spoke.  I stop listening immediately when i hear any cliche and its hard to get me to ever listen to you again

Folklore isnt logic, and im not interested in regurgitation.  not be too harsh but some of my buddies are regurgitators.  They arent the smart ones of my friend group.

 

[moonslav59]

23 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

of course its better to be great at both.  Im prob fine leaving it there.  BUt I just really hate cliches.  I wanted John Farrell fired the first time i heard him spoke.  I stop listening immediately when i hear any cliche and its hard to get me to ever listen to you again

Folklore isnt logic, and im not interested in regurgitation.  not be too harsh but some of my buddies are regurgitators.  They arent the smart ones of my friend group.

 

Regurgitation is not appealing.

That being said, we do need a stronger offense to think of ourselves as top contenders. We agree on that, for sure.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

buy he can also be pitched around.

I'd also throw in that, in the playoffs, the elite SPs throw more innings relative to the regular season.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I'd also throw in that, in the playoffs, the elite SPs throw more innings relative to the regular season.

...and it's not really possible for great batters to get more PAs by a manager's choice.

As great as Papi was, I found myself thinking, I'm so glad Pedro, or Schilling, or Beckett, Lester or Sale as being more comforting than hoping Papi can get up one more time with the winning runner on base.

[mvp 78]

16 hours ago, drewski6 said:

of course its better to be great at both.  Im prob fine leaving it there.  BUt I just really hate cliches.  I wanted John Farrell fired the first time i heard him spoke.  I stop listening immediately when i hear any cliche and its hard to get me to ever listen to you again

Folklore isnt logic, and im not interested in regurgitation.  not be too harsh but some of my buddies are regurgitators.  They arent the smart ones of my friend group.

2003 - terrible defense, 28th in bullpen ERA (bullpen by committee), 3rd offense

2004 - terrible defense, but they win because they had a healthy starting rotation all year and the bullpen pitched lights out in the playoffs

2005 - 4th offense, terrible defense, 18th pitching staff

2007 - 2nd in team ERA, lights out bullpen, only injury was to Schilling

2011 - 2nd offense, 16th in pitching, 7th in defense

2013 - starting pitching was healthy except for Buchholz, top 10 defense

2018 - top 5 pitching staff, top 5 defense

2019 - 6th offense, 12th pitching, 5th defense

I think punting on pitching would be a bad idea. They could get away with a bad defense, but would need to have a really, really great offense (which they don't have). 

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

2003 - terrible defense, 28th in bullpen ERA (bullpen by committee), 3rd offense

2004 - terrible defense, but they win because they had a healthy starting rotation all year and the bullpen pitched lights out in the playoffs

2005 - 4th offense, terrible defense, 18th pitching staff

2007 - 2nd in team ERA, lights out bullpen, only injury was to Schilling

2011 - 2nd offense, 16th in pitching, 7th in defense

2013 - starting pitching was healthy except for Buchholz, top 10 defense

2018 - top 5 pitching staff, top 5 defense

2019 - 6th offense, 12th pitching, 5th defense

I think punting on pitching would be a bad idea. They could get away with a bad defense, but would need to have a really, really great offense (which they don't have). 

Im not talking about trading Crochet.  ANd Im a believer in young pitching over young hitting because I think the more times a pitcher faces a hitter the more time it favors the batter.

I agree dont punt on pitching (or defense) but maybe secure a few very good hitters when you have 0 before pushing talented youngsters out of your rotation because [insert cliche]

[drewski6]

Not to imply that I hate what theyve done, there was always a point where we would audible to "build a dynamo" pitching staff in lieu of fixing the offense because the bats out there werent particularly plentiful and of course Schwarber, ALonso, and Bregman all have at least 1-2 red flags. And Im not excusing not getting tier 2 bats when we have 0 tier 2 (or tier 1 bats) but I am saying there was always a point where you are like "crap" need a plan b and building a dope staff isnt a terrible one.

Also, the hitting/positional player mix isnt complete (I hope).  ANd they did bring in Contreras and keep Duran (lol)

[drewski6]

the best move they made at the deadline: not trade duran
the best move theyve made this offseason: not trade duran

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

17 hours ago, drewski6 said:

I just reject anythnign like pitches and defense wins because in my experience common sayings are for common men.

Breslow disagrees -- if he's not BSing us again (is it another day that ends in a why?)

“We tend to get caught up in the pitching portion of run prevention, but there are other key components as well — defense being the most obvious,” said Brez. “It’s really important that we improve our defense, particularly our infield defense... our out conversion needs to be improved... any additions we may make will be mindful of the defensive skillset.”

My first thought is that ends any idea of signing of Geno Suarez -- but what does Craig really mean about being MINDFUL? 

1. Boston signs E Suarez, who plays soccer with a few of Ranger's grounders, and the CBO says, "I must have been out of my MIND."

2. E. Suarez throws a few hand grenades but hits a few more homers, and the CBO says, "He's like a Devers who likes me, so I don't MIND."

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Breslow disagrees -- if he's not BSing us again (is it another day that ends in a why?)

“We tend to get caught up in the pitching portion of run prevention, but there are other key components as well — defense being the most obvious,” said Brez. “It’s really important that we improve our defense, particularly our infield defense... our out conversion needs to be improved... any additions we may make will be mindful of the defensive skillset.”

My first thought is that ends any idea of signing of Geno Suarez -- but what does Craig really mean about being MINDFUL? 

1. Boston signs E Suarez, who plays soccer with a few of Ranger's grounders, and the CBO says, "I must have been out of my MIND."

2. E. Suarez throws a few hand grenades but hits a few more homers, and the CBO says, "He's like a Devers who likes me, so I don't MIND."

They say anything but the defense is already improved with Contreras, and I wouldnt hate E Suarez, hes not as bad defensively as you are making him out to be.  Hes not going to play soccer with ground balls, as he wouldnt have so many games played at 3b if he was that incompetent.

Hes also more athletic than he looks.  Cuz he looks kind of grungy with a pot-belly.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

They say anything but the defense is already improved with Contreras, and I wouldnt hate E Suarez, hes not as bad defensively as you are making him out to be.  Hes not going to play soccer with ground balls, as he wouldnt have so many games played at 3b if he was that incompetent.

Hes also more athletic than he looks.  Cuz he looks kind of grungy with a pot-belly.

I would say I resemble that remark, but I know you don't like cliches... unfortunately, that's the entire language of sports media, especially pro athletes programmed to answer interview questions with their backs against the wall, because there's no tomorrow, when they play within themselves, because it's too hard to play without themselves.

(I've always had a semi-proclivity at turning phrases... sour. That's why Bill Spaceman Lee was so refreshing, for those who also sprinkled mother nature on their buckwheat pancakes).

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Not to imply that I hate what theyve done, there was always a point where we would audible to "build a dynamo" pitching staff in lieu of fixing the offense because the bats out there werent particularly plentiful and of course Schwarber, ALonso, and Bregman all have at least 1-2 red flags. And Im not excusing not getting tier 2 bats when we have 0 tier 2 (or tier 1 bats) but I am saying there was always a point where you are like "crap" need a plan b and building a dope staff isnt a terrible one.

Also, the hitting/positional player mix isnt complete (I hope).  ANd they did bring in Contreras and keep Duran (lol)

What's "tier 2?" Maybe 30-60th?

300+ PAs

2025 wRC+

15 Anthony

57 Contreras

59 Romy

108 Duran

113 Abreu

2024-2025 (600+ PAs)

30. Contreras (top of tier 2)

56 Duran (does make tier 2 group)

89 Abreu (just makes the tier 3 group)

I'm not posting this to show we don't need a bat, because WE DO NEED A BAT, BADLY!!!!

[mvp 78]

24 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

They say anything but the defense is already improved with Contreras, and I wouldnt hate E Suarez, hes not as bad defensively as you are making him out to be.  Hes not going to play soccer with ground balls, as he wouldnt have so many games played at 3b if he was that incompetent.

Hes also more athletic than he looks.  Cuz he looks kind of grungy with a pot-belly.

Suarez

'23 -3 DRS

'24 -4 DRS

'25 -6 DRS

He's only going to get worse since he'll be 35 this season. Sox showed interest last trade deadline so that they could move him to 1B. Don't see the fit at 3B going forward TBH. 

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Suarez

'23 -3 DRS

'24 -4 DRS

'25 -6 DRS

He's only going to get worse since he'll be 35 this season. Sox showed interest last trade deadline so that they could move him to 1B. Don't see the fit at 3B going forward TBH. 

This is better but trending the same way:

'22 +5 DRS

'23 +2 DRS

'24 -2 DRS

'25 -4 DRS

This is Paredes at 3B. Also...

OAA: +2> 0> -1> -3

[mvp 78]

19 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

This is better but trending the same way:

'22 +5 DRS

'23 +2 DRS

'24 -2 DRS

'25 -4 DRS

This is Paredes at 3B. Also...

OAA: +2> 0> -1> -3

I don't think Paredes is a defensive whizz, but he's more likely to plateau at below average than see his skills absolutely crater due to age in the near future. 

[Old Red]

42 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Suarez

'23 -3 DRS

'24 -4 DRS

'25 -6 DRS

He's only going to get worse since he'll be 35 this season. Sox showed interest last trade deadline so that they could move him to 1B. Don't see the fit at 3B going forward TBH. 

Is Brez making this a lot harder than it should, or needs to be to get a 3B/2B?

[mvp 78]

How about this guy:

2.8 bWAR/162 over his career

8 DRS '25 at 2b

8 DRS '24 at 2b

[Hugh2]

53 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Is Brez making this a lot harder than it should, or needs to be to get a 3B/2B?

Isn't that a very subjective question? 

I mean he could of just handed Bo Bichette a blank check and made it easy?

He could of just offered Tolle/Bello/Arias/Early/Witherspoon for Marte and that would be easy too. 

Not trying to throw shade here Red, there is a very open pathway to Bres getting lots of criticism for not plugging in that gap, but the offseason isn't over yet. 

....but the clock is ticking. 

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Isn't that a very subjective question? 

I mean he could of just handed Bo Bichette a blank check and made it easy?

He could of just offered Tolle/Bello/Arias/Early/Witherspoon for Marte and that would be easy too. 

Not trying to throw shade here Red, there is a very open pathway to Bres getting lots of criticism for not plugging in that gap, but the offseason isn't over yet. 

....but the clock is ticking. 

No he couldn’t have just handed Bo a blank check. Brez bungled the whole Raffy situation for a one year rental, and then he bungled the whole Bregman situation this year who was the Red Sox PLAN A. Just throw In Anthony too for Marte, and make it a real fabrication.

[mvp 78]

29 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I mean he could of just handed Bo Bichette a blank check and made it easy?

He could of just offered Tolle/Bello/Arias/Early/Witherspoon for Marte and that would be easy too. 

[moonslav59]

I'm glad we didn't pay for Bichette.

I wanted Breggie, but in 2-3 years we might view him like we view Bogey, now.

We need a bat, still, and options are dwindling and expensive.

[Hugh2]

36 minutes ago, Old Red said:

No he couldn’t have just handed Bo a blank check. Brez bungled the whole Raffy situation for a one year rental, and then he bungled the whole Bregman situation this year who was the Red Sox PLAN A. Just throw In Anthony too for Marte, and make it a real fabrication.

I know that was my point. 

he may have bungled the Raffy situation but I think he was backed into a corner.  Henry obviously wanted him off the team. 

[Hugh2]

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

No way they say no right?