Bregman signs with the Cubs

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

1. Sox should do whatever it takes to fill their 2b/3b need and that may mean trading a pitcher instead of Duran.

2. If #1 happens, they could then trade Abreu or Duran for prospects to replenish the farm and fix the roster constructions issues. 

1. Yes.

2. No, if we do #1.

The farm is more than fine. The lack of everyday top prospects is not a major concern, since almost all our 13 players on the 26 are under team control for 3+ years.... many for 5-9.

If anything, our pitching is logjammed.

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

No way anyone wants to trade Duran for lower return.

I think notin is the only one suggesting prospects be a part of the return value.

Just Dalton Rushing, and only because the Sox were previously linked to him and the Dodgers had not yet signed Tucker…

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

1. Sox should do whatever it takes to fill their 2b/3b need and that may mean trading a pitcher instead of Duran.

2. If #1 happens, they could then trade Abreu or Duran for prospects to replenish the farm and fix the roster constructions issues. 

1.  Bello.  Hes a decent pitcher but quite possibly not among the Sox five best.  And unlike someone like Sandoval, every team in MLB will at least listen on Bello.  They might not give up what you want for him, but they won’t hang up upon hearing his name …

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, notin said:

1.  Bello.  Hes a decent pitcher but quite possibly not among the Sox five best.  And unlike someone like Sandoval, every team in MLB will at least listen on Bello.  They might not give up what you want for him, but they won’t hang up upon hearing his name …

I would much rather pin my hopes on any two from these guys filling the 4-5 rotation slots than counting on DHam at 2B.

Oviedo, Crawford, Sandoval, Harrison, Tolle & Early.

I'm at the point where Bello looks like the logical "give."

I feel pretty good about those 6 to fill 2 slots and any injuries. After DHam, we have Sogard & Eaton. I don't count Romy, because he may be DH'ing and playing 1B, some, and would likely only play 2B vs LHPs. DHam is the worst vs LHPs, out of Masa (DH), Contreras (1B) and Mayer (3B).

Maybe Romy wins the FT 2B job. We should not bank on it.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

1. Sox should do whatever it takes to fill their 2b/3b need and that may mean trading a pitcher instead of Duran.

2. If #1 happens, they could then trade Abreu or Duran for prospects to replenish the farm and fix the roster constructions issues. 

I agree with that.  The Duran conversation sometimes gets too restrictive.  It could be any of Abreu, Ceddanne, or imho, Duran.  And we can trade any of our SPs from the #4 on down.

But most importantly, once we have the 2b/3b, we control our own destiny.  Whether we trade Duran or Bello for a IF, makes no difference to me.  Once that happens, we would be in a position to take calls, but a better position to dictate terms.

[moonslav59]

47 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I agree with that.  The Duran conversation sometimes gets too restrictive.  It could be any of Abreu, Ceddanne, or imho, Duran.  And we can trade any of our SPs from the #4 on down.

But most importantly, once we have the 2b/3b, we control our own destiny.  Whether we trade Duran or Bello for a IF, makes no difference to me.  Once that happens, we would be in a position to take calls, but a better position to dictate terms.

Agreed. To me, there is no reason we can't add a real good 3B/2Bman by offering what we want from our 2 logjam areas: OF and SP depth.

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed. To me, there is no reason we can't add a real good 3B/2Bman by offering what we want from our 2 logjam areas: OF and SP depth.

The reason would be: we don't have a need in OF and don't like the pitchers you are willing to give up.

[Old Red]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed. To me, there is no reason we can't add a real good 3B/2Bman by offering what we want from our 2 logjam areas: OF and SP depth.

When you come right down to it why is there a need for a 2B anyway? Seems like that need has been there for quite a few years now. Of course 3B is a whole different story altogether.

[moonslav59]

32 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The reason would be: we don't have a need in OF and don't like the pitchers you are willing to give up.

Yes, many teams fall into one or both of those categories, but we do know a few teams need an OF'er and many teams need a SP'er- even if a #4 or 5 type.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, many teams fall into one or both of those categories, but we do know a few teams need an OF'er and many teams need a SP'er- even if a #4 or 5 type.

The only team that NEEDS an OFer and has a 2b/3b that the Sox are reportedly interested in is HOU. Haven't heard anyone else mentioned. At this point in the offseason, it'd be a big surprise for a mystery team to be announced. Seems like HOU & BOS aren't matching up for whatever reason.

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, Old Red said:

When you come right down to it why is there a need for a 2B anyway? Seems like that need has been there for quite a few years now. Of course 3B is a whole different story altogether.

It's not like we didn't try to fix 2B a few times.

K Campbell was the shiny "suspect," last year... OUCH!

Grissom was a gamble, for sure, but he was supposed to be a decent gamble.

E Valdez was never good on D, but when his bat failed... poof, he was gone.

DHam was never a serious hope, despite his half a good season back in '24.

Arroyo, Holt and that one partial season by Story were the best we've had since 2018. If we didn't need Kike in CF and later at SS (YUCK!) he might have been okay.

It's rather astounding that since 2018, the Sox have not had one player get more than 550 PAs at 2B!

544 Arroyo, 412 Holt, 396 Story, 375 Nunez, 304 Kike

277 DHam, 254 Chavis, , 227 Campbell, 194 Romy
141 Kinsler, 131 Marco, 119 Marwin, 109 Grissom, 100 PReyes. 100 Ceddanne

91 Arauz, 89 Peraza, 88 Urias, 73 Sogard, 51 Iggy, 44 Yolmer, 39 Westbrook, 36 Lin

5 guys between 23-29

Total clown circus.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The only team that NEEDS an OFer and has a 2b/3b that the Sox are reportedly interested in is HOU. Haven't heard anyone else mentioned. At this point in the offseason, it'd be a big surprise for a mystery team to be announced. Seems like HOU & BOS aren't matching up for whatever reason.

A third team might help fit the needs between HOU & BOS, and it's always hard to know if talks have broken down or just put on hold as one team seeks a better deal elsewhere. We just don't know.

I'm not so sure the Cubs need an OF'er, but they did lose Tucker and like Suzuki at DH, so they may have a need and an "extra" infielder to spare after signing Breggie.

Maybe KCR or NYY need OF help, but likely don't match up giving us an infielder. There was word Chisholm was being shopped.

Do the Cubs trade us Shaw for Abreu or Duran?

I still like Duran or Abreu for Paredes + one from King, Sousa, Janek or maybe B Abreu.

 

[Old Red]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

A third team might help fit the needs between HOU & BOS, and it's always hard to know if talks have broken down or just put on hold as one team seeks a better deal elsewhere. We just don't know.

I'm not so sure the Cubs need an OF'er, but they did lose Tucker and like Suzuki at DH, so they may have a need and an "extra" infielder to spare after signing Breggie.

Maybe KCR or NYY need OF help, but likely don't match up giving us an infielder. There was word Chisholm was being shopped.

Do the Cubs trade us Shaw for Abreu or Duran?

I still like Duran or Abreu for Paredes + one from King, Sousa, Janek or maybe B Abreu.

 

IP just signed for $9.35M with Houston.

[mvp 78]

18 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

A third team might help fit the needs between HOU & BOS, and it's always hard to know if talks have broken down or just put on hold as one team seeks a better deal elsewhere. We just don't know.

I'm not so sure the Cubs need an OF'er, but they did lose Tucker and like Suzuki at DH, so they may have a need and an "extra" infielder to spare after signing Breggie.

Maybe KCR or NYY need OF help, but likely don't match up giving us an infielder. There was word Chisholm was being shopped.

Do the Cubs trade us Shaw for Abreu or Duran?

I still like Duran or Abreu for Paredes + one from King, Sousa, Janek or maybe B Abreu.

Is Craig a good enough communicator to do a three team deal?

Cubs have Ballesteros at DH and I think they are going to give him a bit of runway at the start of the year. He could have a decent ceiling. 

I think Shaw is unlikely due to the cost of the trade. Hoerner is more likely, BUT is only for one year. Seems like it's really HOU or nothing so probably nothing at this point. Maybe there is one of those unspoken Breslow deals that we'll be surprised by? I'm not counting on it.

[Kimmi]

22 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not sure Rafaela is better on offense than Romy, but I think he is better than DHam, even if DHam only faces RHPs. (Rafaela has career reverse splits.)

Romy may be used to platoon with Mayer, but my guess is he'll platoon with DHam at 2B more, and maybe even Masa at DH. I think Mayer gets a long look as our FT 3Bman

I have to think we are adding a 2Bman (or 3Bman,) soon. Let's see who it is, and maybe everything seems clearer, then.

I will be rather surprised if we don't add a 2B or a 3B soon.  It may not be as strong an upgrade as we'd like, but we have to improve our infield depth options, if nothing else.

I don't think that Mayer will be platooned.  Barring injury, he'll play mostly everyday at either 2nd or 3rd base.  

[drewski6]

52 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, many teams fall into one or both of those categories, but we do know a few teams need an OF'er and many teams need a SP'er- even if a #4 or 5 type.

We know that weve been struggling for over a year to line up a buy-buy trade.

If a team is looking to acquire Duran or Abreu then they are trying to win and the 2b/3b they give you in return will likely not be very good.

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Is Craig a good enough communicator to do a three team deal?

Cubs have Ballesteros at DH and I think they are going to give him a bit of runway at the start of the year. He could have a decent ceiling. 

I think Shaw is unlikely due to the cost of the trade. Hoerner is more likely, BUT is only for one year. Seems like it's really HOU or nothing so probably nothing at this point. Maybe there is one of those unspoken Breslow deals that we'll be surprised by? I'm not counting on it.

Houston is talking about IP playing 2B, so I don’t know where he would play if traded to Boston, but I just think if all the mentioned trades with Houston, or the Cubs would have happened by now if they were going to.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I will be rather surprised if we don't add a 2B or a 3B soon.  It may not be as strong an upgrade as we'd like, but we have to improve our infield depth options, if nothing else.

I don't think that Mayer will be platooned.  Barring injury, he'll play mostly everyday at either 2nd or 3rd base.  

He had a 416 OPS last year vs LHP. I think he's going to have to be paired with somebody to (a) provide rest for his body and (b) give him a break from tough lefties.

[Kimmi]

2 hours ago, notin said:

1.  Bello.  Hes a decent pitcher but quite possibly not among the Sox five best.  And unlike someone like Sandoval, every team in MLB will at least listen on Bello.  They might not give up what you want for him, but they won’t hang up upon hearing his name …

I still don't like the idea of trading Bello, but acknowledge that 1. we are very strong in starting pitching, and 2. other teams will listen.  I would not trade Bello if the trade does not result in a net positive gain for the Red Sox, regardless of whether it fills an infield need or not.

[drewski6]

10 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I will be rather surprised if we don't add a 2B or a 3B soon.  It may not be as strong an upgrade as we'd like, but we have to improve our infield depth options, if nothing else.

I don't think that Mayer will be platooned.  Barring injury, he'll play mostly everyday at either 2nd or 3rd base.  

He was hilariously bad against lefties though.  I was too and I never figured it out.

[Kimmi]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He had a 416 OPS last year vs LHP. I think he's going to have to be paired with somebody to (a) provide rest for his body and (b) give him a break from tough lefties.

Possibly.  I realize that he struggled against lefties last year.  I just feel like the Red Sox are committed to him as a FT player rather than as a platoon player.  Sure, he will sit against some tough lefties from time to time as a day of rest, but not as a platoon.  As of now, we don't have the right-handed bats to fill the role anyway.  That may change.

[Kimmi]

7 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

He was hilariously bad against lefties though.  I was too and I never figured it out.

Yes, I realize that.  Hopefully, he will figure it out.  He won't figure it out if he doesn't get the playing time.

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Houston is talking about IP playing 2B, so I don’t know where he would play if traded to Boston, but I just think if all the mentioned trades with Houston, or the Cubs would have happened by now if they were going to.

Its just so hard to line up these types of trades.  Weve been trying to trade an OF'er to a team in a win now for a long time.  Since last year.  I wouldnt assume it cant happen or wont happen, but I think the fact that it hasnt happened does show that its difficult and/or unlikely

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

IP just signed for $9.35M with Houston.

Pre-ARB or was that the ARB ruling?

That was about what was projected and $1.5M more than Duran's AAV.

[moonslav59]

59 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

We know that weve been struggling for over a year to line up a buy-buy trade.

If a team is looking to acquire Duran or Abreu then they are trying to win and the 2b/3b they give you in return will likely not be very good.

That is normally the case, but a team like HOU wants Yordan at DH FT and has 5 infielders. They want to win, now and need an OF'er real bad- about as badly as we need a 3Bman.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Houston is talking about IP playing 2B, so I don’t know where he would play if traded to Boston, but I just think if all the mentioned trades with Houston, or the Cubs would have happened by now if they were going to.

They tried Altuve in LF, last year and they gave up.

They are NOT trading Altuve or Walker.

They are not trading Pena or Correa.

Paredes can play 3B or 2B, and even 1B, but I think we'd put him at 3B. Just my guess. They could put Mayer at 3B and paredes at 2B- fine with me.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Pre-ARB or was that the ARB ruling?

That was about what was projected and $1.5M more than Duran's AAV.

It was agreed to.

[moonslav59]

39 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Its just so hard to line up these types of trades.  Weve been trying to trade an OF'er to a team in a win now for a long time.  Since last year.  I wouldnt assume it cant happen or wont happen, but I think the fact that it hasnt happened does show that its difficult and/or unlikely

There have been a lot of OF'ers traded in 2 years. Maybe it's just Brez being tight or overvaluing our OF'ers. Maybe other GM are undervaluing them. Maybe they know the correct value, and we do not.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It was agreed to.

I think we can add him and not go over line 3.

JH should be okay with that.

There’s also a 2027 club option on the deal worth $13.35MM

That's a good deal and team-friendly.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

They tried Altuve in LF, last year and they gave up.

They are NOT trading Altuve or Walker.

They are not trading Pena or Correa.

Paredes can play 3B or 2B, and even 1B, but I think we'd put him at 3B. Just my guess. They could put Mayer at 3B and paredes at 2B- fine with me.

My guess is that it is a bluff.  The Cubs could hang on to everyone and only lose one year out of five service  years with Shaw.  If the Astros hang onto IP they lose half of his value.  He likely won't start.