Bregman signs with the Cubs

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I am still thinking that the Red Sox will add either a 2nd baseman or a 3rd baseman to take care of the infield situation.  As I've said many times, we need some better infield depth, if nothing else.  And, if nothing else, the Sox should at least acquire a LH 2B to platoon with Romy.

I'll be really upset, if we don't add a decent 3Bman/2Bman. That's already me walking back from "We need KMarte."

The Suarez addition made us better in another area, so there is some justification in the walk-back, but we still have not replaced the Devers bat and the Bragman glove. Once can argue Contreras replaced Bregman's bat, and I guess it's close enough to not make a big deal about, but we need a 2B/3Bman and a big RH'd bat. I don't see any one player who fits both needs perfectly, since KMarte is off the table. Paredes might come closest. Suarez might give us the power RHB, but the Ks and OBP are not ideal, and he sucks on D.

Going for a young up and coming 2Bman sounds great, but bye-bye Tolle & Arias plus maybe more.

[Kimmi]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'll be really upset, if we don't add a decent 3Bman/2Bman. That's already me walking back from "We need KMarte."

The Suarez addition made us better in another area, so there is some justification in the walk-back, but we still have not replaced the Devers bat and the Bragman glove. Once can argue Contreras replaced Bregman's bat, and I guess it's close enough to not make a big deal about, but we need a 2B/3Bman and a big RH'd bat. I don't see any one player who fits both needs perfectly, since KMarte is off the table. Paredes might come closest. Suarez might give us the power RHB, but the Ks and OBP are not ideal, and he sucks on D.

Going for a young up and coming 2Bman sounds great, but bye-bye Tolle & Arias plus maybe more.

After signing Suarez and upgrading our pitching, I won't be extremely upset if we don't add a 2nd or 3rd baseman, but I agree that we really do need to add an infielder.  That's the last piece to make this offseason complete, IMO.  I'd be okay if we added a defensive oriented player over a big bat.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Kimmi said:

After signing Suarez and upgrading our pitching, I won't be extremely upset if we don't add a 2nd or 3rd baseman, but I agree that we really do need to add an infielder.  That's the last piece to make this offseason complete, IMO.  I'd be okay if we added a defensive oriented player over a big bat.

I've been searching and re-searching any and almost all options. If it's a defensive guy, I'd hope he's on the young side with some O potential, but that will be costly.

We can't afford to offer Mayer for an infielder, because we'd still be one short.

K Campbell has too much serious upside to sell low, now. Plus, I'm not sure he brings us a solid infielder. (I doubt HOU gives us Paredes for KC and Sandlin.)

Duran for a young infielder has to be to a contending team not in need os said young infielder. Who is that?

The 4 years of control on Abreu makes him more attractive to all teams- win now and those looking 1-3 years down the road. That seems like Houston, but I'm not sure the Paredes value is close enough to swap for Abreu. I'd probably do it, if they added King and maybe for Sousa or Janek. One year of Abreu thrown in doesn't quite get me to yes, but then I think: for 2 years we'd have a better line-up with Paredes over Abreu, since whoever replaces Abreu looks just as good, so there is little drop off, except on D.

Lastly, I consider Tolle or Early, and I recoil at the idea of trading one, but it seems like as long as they are options, other teams don't want Crawford, Sadnoval, Harrison and maybe even Bello. (I'm not sure Bello for Paredes is fair, either, but again, we'd be better with Paredes and they guy who replaces Bello than DHam/Romy at 2B.)

I'm at a loss on who we can get. I've made a few suggestions, and maybe one comes true. I do think we certainly need one more guy.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I do think we certainly need one more guy.

I think almost everyone is on the that same page.  More of the disagreement comes from whom we should trade, and whether we should focus on OPS, fielding, or both.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

I think almost everyone is on the that same page.  More of the disagreement comes from whom we should trade, and whether we should focus on OPS, fielding, or both.

It's not often we mostly agree on one thing. This could be it.

[mvp 78]

12 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I think almost everyone is on the that same page.  More of the disagreement comes from whom we should trade, and whether we should focus on OPS, fielding, or both.

It should be at least an adequate fielder. I don't think he can be an absolute dog out there. He needs to be a dawg. 

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

It should be at least an adequate fielder. I don't think he can be an absolute dog out there. He needs to be a dawg. 

I'm guessing the majority here likely agree.  I'm still trying to talk myself into Baty, despite being a lefty.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

I'm guessing the majority here likely agree.  I'm still trying to talk myself into Baty, despite being a lefty.

He's cheap because he's still pre-arb. LHB isn't ideal. I can't really speak to his defense as I don't watch the Mets much. Would the Sox keep Mayer at 3b and put Baty at 2b? Mets are planning to just make Baty a UTIL guy. 

[JoeBrady]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He's cheap because he's still pre-arb. LHB isn't ideal. I can't really speak to his defense as I don't watch the Mets much. Would the Sox keep Mayer at 3b and put Baty at 2b? Mets are planning to just make Baty a UTIL guy. 

If we got Baty, I'd guess he'd go to 2nd, much like if we got Paredes, but that's guesswork.

On the Mets side, my guess is that they platoon him and Vientos at DH.  But, just like Paredes, it feels like a waste to platoon a player if you can trade him for a position of need.

[moonslav59]

51 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Mets are planning to just make Baty a UTIL guy. 

Just don't tell Fred we signed someone else's UT guy.

[notin]

21 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'll be really upset, if we don't add a decent 3Bman/2Bman. That's already me walking back from "We need KMarte."

The Suarez addition made us better in another area, so there is some justification in the walk-back, but we still have not replaced the Devers bat and the Bragman glove. Once can argue Contreras replaced Bregman's bat, and I guess it's close enough to not make a big deal about, but we need a 2B/3Bman and a big RH'd bat. I don't see any one player who fits both needs perfectly, since KMarte is off the table. Paredes might come closest. Suarez might give us the power RHB, but the Ks and OBP are not ideal, and he sucks on D.

Going for a young up and coming 2Bman sounds great, but bye-bye Tolle & Arias plus maybe more.

Would you trade Payton Tolle straight up for Matt Shaw?

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

He's cheap because he's still pre-arb. LHB isn't ideal. I can't really speak to his defense as I don't watch the Mets much. Would the Sox keep Mayer at 3b and put Baty at 2b? Mets are planning to just make Baty a UTIL guy. 

Baty has decent range but not much for an arm.  He’s a good 2b candidate…

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, notin said:

Would you trade Payton Tolle straight up for Matt Shaw?

No. 

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

Baty has decent range but not much for an arm.  He’s a good 2b candidate…

We didn't see much of Mayer's arm, but what we did was close to Baty's. 

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, notin said:

Would you trade Payton Tolle straight up for Matt Shaw?

To be honest, I don't know much about other team's players, except by looking at stats and BTV values, years of control and AAV.

Shaw looks very promising and is just 24. I think he has 5 years of control. Gotta love that, as long as he's good. We thought Jeter Downs might/would be good. We thought Grissom might/would be good.

Baty has 4 years of control. I'd rather have a RHB, but he shows promise, too

I'm pretty big on Tolle, and I'd still prefer to trade an OF'er for an infielder, but I'd probably do it, if I felt either of these two was going be valuable.

 

[notin]

42 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

To be honest, I don't know much about other team's players, except by looking at stats and BTV values, years of control and AAV.

Shaw looks very promising and is just 24. I think he has 5 years of control. Gotta love that, as long as he's good. We thought Jeter Downs might/would be good. We thought Grissom might/would be good.

Baty has 4 years of control. I'd rather have a RHB, but he shows promise, too

I'm pretty big on Tolle, and I'd still prefer to trade an OF'er for an infielder, but I'd probably do it, if I felt either of these two was going be valuable.

 

Shaw did look pretty good at the plate after his recall, and his second half OPS was an impressive .839.   Add that he is a very solid defender…

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Would you trade Payton Tolle straight up for Matt Shaw?

No.  Shaw had a very good year, but suspiciously low EV and swing speed.

[moonslav59]

I'm really not sure what to think on Shaw and Baty.

[Kimmi]

20 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I've been searching and re-searching any and almost all options. If it's a defensive guy, I'd hope he's on the young side with some O potential, but that will be costly.

We can't afford to offer Mayer for an infielder, because we'd still be one short.

K Campbell has too much serious upside to sell low, now. Plus, I'm not sure he brings us a solid infielder. (I doubt HOU gives us Paredes for KC and Sandlin.)

Duran for a young infielder has to be to a contending team not in need os said young infielder. Who is that?

The 4 years of control on Abreu makes him more attractive to all teams- win now and those looking 1-3 years down the road. That seems like Houston, but I'm not sure the Paredes value is close enough to swap for Abreu. I'd probably do it, if they added King and maybe for Sousa or Janek. One year of Abreu thrown in doesn't quite get me to yes, but then I think: for 2 years we'd have a better line-up with Paredes over Abreu, since whoever replaces Abreu looks just as good, so there is little drop off, except on D.

Lastly, I consider Tolle or Early, and I recoil at the idea of trading one, but it seems like as long as they are options, other teams don't want Crawford, Sadnoval, Harrison and maybe even Bello. (I'm not sure Bello for Paredes is fair, either, but again, we'd be better with Paredes and they guy who replaces Bello than DHam/Romy at 2B.)

I'm at a loss on who we can get. I've made a few suggestions, and maybe one comes true. I do think we certainly need one more guy.

There has to be someone out there who can fill our needs.  It probably won't be as big an impact bat as we'd like.  It also probably won't be a Gold Glove defender.  But there's someone out there who can provide a solid infield upgrade and depth and won't cost us a fortune.  I have no clue who that is.  I leave that up to the posters here who love to do that stuff, and do a good job of it.

Personally, I wouldn't trade away our young pitching.  I'm still really against trading Duran, Rafaela, or Abreu, but I understand that it might be the cost of acquiring some infield help.

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

There has to be someone out there who can fill our needs.  It probably won't be as big an impact bat as we'd like.  It also probably won't be a Gold Glove defender.  But there's someone out there who can provide a solid infield upgrade and depth and won't cost us a fortune.  I have no clue who that is.  I leave that up to the posters here who love to do that stuff, and do a good job of it.

Personally, I wouldn't trade away our young pitching.  I'm still really against trading Duran, Rafaela, or Abreu, but I understand that it might be the cost of acquiring some infield help.

I feel like the level of player we need at 2B or 3B necessitates giving high value to get return high value.

Of the 4 OF'ers, dues to years of control and all around skill levels, I think Duran ends up being the one most likely to be traded.

The rotational depth is harder to rank, and the lower rank means lower return in value. I'm not for trading Bello, but for the right return, I would. I'd rather trade Crawford, Sandoval, oviedo or Harrison to Tolle or Early, but I doubt we can get a good enough infielder for one of them.

[Kimmi]

44 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I feel like the level of player we need at 2B or 3B necessitates giving high value to get return high value.

Of the 4 OF'ers, dues to years of control and all around skill levels, I think Duran ends up being the one most likely to be traded.

The rotational depth is harder to rank, and the lower rank means lower return in value. I'm not for trading Bello, but for the right return, I would. I'd rather trade Crawford, Sandoval, oviedo or Harrison to Tolle or Early, but I doubt we can get a good enough infielder for one of them.

We'll see what happens.  We have some pieces that we can trade to acquire our needed infielder, for sure.  I just hope that it doesn't hurt too much.

I still say get Duran cracking at 2nd base.  He can platoon with Romy.  That would probably be a decent 2nd base duo.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

We'll see what happens.  We have some pieces that we can trade to acquire our needed infielder, for sure.  I just hope that it doesn't hurt too much.

I still say get Duran cracking at 2nd base.  He can platoon with Romy.  That would probably be a decent 2nd base duo.

It pains me to say this, but I'd rather just tell Rafaela you are the FT 2Bman for 2026, so start working out there than put Duran at 2B.

[drewski6]

3 hours ago, notin said:

Baty has decent range but not much for an arm.  He’s a good 2b candidate…

I dont trust Batys bat

[drewski6]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It pains me to say this, but I'd rather just tell Rafaela you are the FT 2Bman for 2026, so start working out there than put Duran at 2B.

Well certainly dont tell him that! Did you see what happened to a different Raffy just last year when we told him he would be the DH and then tried to change it.

Rafaela is unlikely to be the FT 2b for all of 2026.  What is more likely is that he might get some reps at 2b when the season starts, and then like as soon as there is an injury to an outfielder (and there will be) you move him back.

You take advantage of his versatility by moving him to where hes needed.  

Rafaela starts every game in CF against a lefty (25% of the time). When there is a righty on the mound, (75%) Rafaela plays 2b some of those times (25% total) and cf some of those times (25% of total) and comes off bench sometimes (25% total).  When hes in CF vs a lefty, likely one of Abeu/Duran will sit.  When hes in CF vs a righty, likely Duran DHs and Yoshida sits.

So hes getting some run at 2b but not like hes a FT 2b.  And all this planning becomes worthless 3 weeks into the season where there is an injury and suddenly the problem works itself out.

The beauty of having Cedanne play some 2b is that if there is one injury to an outfielder, you still have 3 good outfielders.

And similarly, the beauty of having both Gray and Ranger is that if one gets hurt, you still have a very good arm behind Crochet.  The beauty of having Tolle and Early is that if one gets hurt (or needs more development) you still have a young rookie phenom pitcher. 

[moonslav59]

I'm 100% against Rafaela at 2B. That is one reason I have 100 Sox OF'er trades listed on BTV.

[mvp 78]

14 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm 100% against Rafaela at 2B. That is one reason I have 100 Sox OF'er trades listed on BTV.

Duran at 2b is like Plan Z. So many things have to go weirdly wrong for that to happen. 

[Old Red]

37 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Duran at 2b is like Plan Z. So many things have to go weirdly wrong for that to happen. 

I don’t think it is even Plan Z. I think Cora would come out of retirement before that would happen.

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I don’t think it is even Plan Z. I think Cora would come out of retirement before that would happen.

If they were even considering moving Duran, we would have heard about it by now. The Sox have had so much turmoil in the MIF since 2022, but not a peep about trying Duran there. It's just not going to happen.

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If they were even considering moving Duran, we would have heard about it by now. The Sox have had so much turmoil in the MIF since 2022, but not a peep about trying Duran there. It's just not going to happen.

That’s why I keep asking why do the Red Sox have to settle. 11 different 2B 2 years ago, and countless guys at SS when Story was out, not to mention the parade through 1B.

[moonslav59]

27 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I don’t think it is even Plan Z. I think Cora would come out of retirement before that would happen.

Agreed. The words Duran and secondbase (see how I made the one word?) have never entered Cora's mind at the same time.