Red Sox acquire Wilson Contreras From Cardinals

[notin]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think Vientos is a 1b only guy now and his bat isn't very good. Seems like he has AAAA written all over him and is more of a thrown in for a larger deal. 

Maybe but he certainly does have power.  I saw him hit the longest home run to center field Ive ever seen at Wrigley.

Hes not much of a 3b.  If he was, a Casas/Vientos swap might make more sense…

[moonslav59]

59 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think Vientos is a 1b only guy now and his bat isn't very good. Seems like he has AAAA written all over him and is more of a thrown in for a larger deal. 

Agreed.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

Yoshida has always been the problem. He takes a spot up and doesn't offer anywhere near enough with that spot. It's all well and good DFAing him, but it doesn't help us money wise. Which is why I would still be okay with us giving away a prospect (nothing too crazy) to get him and the money off the roster.

I'm assuming Bres has already thought of this and there's no doing. 

The best we might hope for is for someone to pay $4-6M a year of his deal and give us nothing for him.

I don't see an Arenado for Masa deal as happening, either. (I'd give Masa and Hicks for him, but STL won't accept.) I don't want Arenado, at all.

I've never been a fan of the add a prospect to the deal plan, and I'm not sure how common that type of deal is. It would have to be to a team who actually thinks Masa can help them now.

As much as we talk about Masa, had we not taken Hicks, we could probably afford Suarez or Okamoto.

[JoeBrady]

5 hours ago, notin said:

Maybe but he certainly does have power.  I saw him hit the longest home run to center field Ive ever seen at Wrigley.

Hes not much of a 3b.  If he was, a Casas/Vientos swap might make more sense…

100% of this depends on which version of Vientos one believes.  He was better than Alonso in 2024, and worse in 2025.  Over the two years, Alonso averaged 35 HRs per 600 ABs, and Vientos averaged 31.5.  It's fair to point out his weak 2025, but it is also fair to point out that he had a .778 in the second half, with 11 HRs in 191 ABs.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

100% of this depends on which version of Vientos one believes.  He was better than Alonso in 2024, and worse in 2025.  Over the two years, Alonso averaged 35 HRs per 600 ABs, and Vientos averaged 31.5.  It's fair to point out his weak 2025, but it is also fair to point out that he had a .778 in the second half, with 11 HRs in 191 ABs.

Per 162 games 2024-2025:

16 HRs + 46 2B+3B Bichette

24 HRs and 26 2B+3B Abreu

26 HRs and 25 2B+3B Contreras

28 Hrs and 37 2B+3B Bregman

31 HRs and 31 2B+3B Vientos

34 HRs and 36 2B+3B Devers

36 HRs and 37 2B+3B Alonso

40 HRs and 30 2B+3B Suarez

40 HRs and 33 2B+3B K Marte

49 HRs and 24 2B+3B Schwarber

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Per 162 games 2024-2025:

16 HRs + 46 2B+3B Bichette

24 HRs and 26 2B+3B Abreu

26 HRs and 25 2B+3B Contreras

28 Hrs and 37 2B+3B Bregman

31 HRs and 31 2B+3B Vientos

34 HRs and 36 2B+3B Devers

36 HRs and 37 2B+3B Alonso

40 HRs and 30 2B+3B Suarez

40 HRs and 33 2B+3B K Marte

49 HRs and 24 2B+3B Schwarber

Good exercise. For some of these guys, I looked at the past half decade, and total hits. 

With about the same amount of XBH, here are 162-game averages for singles, as well:

Bichette 130, Bregman 100, Marte 99, Devers 94, Contreras 80, Suarez 73.

Bichette missed half the season in '24 and is the only one still in his 20s. Clearly the best hitter...

[Hitch]

24 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Good exercise. For some of these guys, I looked at the past half decade, and total hits. 

With about the same amount of XBH, here are 162-game averages for singles, as well:

Bichette 130, Bregman 100, Marte 99, Devers 94, Contreras 80, Suarez 73.

Bichette missed half the season in '24 and is the only one still in his 20s. Clearly the best hitter...

Slightly worried about his decreasing bat speed, but he's my overall number 1 choice for the 2nd base spot.

[Hugh2]

16 hours ago, notin said:

It is?  Who does that?

I keep hearing year after year teams are getting away from having full time DHs.  Yet Ohtani, Schwarber, Yordan Alvarez, Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna, Brent Rooker, Seiya Suzuki, Hunter Goodman, Ivan Herrera, and Chritian Yelich all exist…

You really had to stretch to make that list, and that's barely 1/3 of all teams. 

I mean Ivan Herrera? Someone with 203 career games but less than 1/2 those at DH. 

A lot of those guys were signed to be position players and they DH because they have aged but are under contract, but they can still hit.  Of those guys, Hunter Goodman still caught 104 games last year Suzuki still played 48 games in the outfield last year. 

Sure when a guy falls off and can still hit big I don't think you complain when their name is David Ortiz or Brent Rooker, but I'm sure the New York Yankees would have loved to relieve themeselves of the Giancarlo Stanton contract a few years ago. 

Many of those guys still played a lot of time in the field, because the team was still rotating the DH position and they were the worse defenders.  It's not like teams are going out and signing guys to exclusively be a DH, well at least not often.  Guys like Kyle Schwarber exist....but he's the exception. 

Obviously if you have a guy who can mash you just put him there and don't complain, but these guys playing 50-100 games you call a "DH", do you really think David Ortiz would be playing 50-100 games in the field if he were playing today??? David Ortiz played the field less than most of those guys and he DIDN'T play during a time when you could DH in national league stadiums. 

I suppose I didn't cover Ohtani, who also happens to arguably be the best pitcher.  If he wasn't pitching he'd be fielding, I've heard reports that he profiled as a plus defender in right field.  Is that true? IDK, but he is a freak athlete who is DHing because he's also pitching.  That's literally a situation unlike any other we've ever seen in baseball. 

Of course, if you have a guy who can hit for average and put up 30/100 in the middle of your lineup but has no position you make him your full time DH, that model is still always going to work for some guys.  But without doubt it is not what is desired by most teams.  

[mvp 78]

Half the league basically has fulltime DH's. The other half doesn't have someone good enough on their roster to be a fulltime DH. 

[Hugh2]

47 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Slightly worried about his decreasing bat speed, but he's my overall number 1 choice for the 2nd base spot.

Bat speed is a big thing for me too.  I do wonder, given his age, if they can improve his bat speed.  It can certainly be done if he's open to it.  

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Half the league basically has fulltime DH's. The other half doesn't have someone good enough on their roster to be a fulltime DH. 

I don't disagree with this reality at all.  I just think it's more of a factor of guys who can still really hit who age themselves out of the field (not that young DH's don't exist).  I think every single team in baseball would rather have that player play adaquate to better defense in the field than DH. 

Think of it this way, DH's are typically made and not signed.  Obviously there are exceptions E.G. Schwarber. 

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I don't disagree with this reality at all.  I just think it's more of a factor of guys who can still really hit who age themselves out of the field (not that young DH's don't exist).  I think every single team in baseball would rather have that player play adaquate to better defense in the field than DH. 

Think of it this way, DH's are typically made and not signed.  Obviously there are exceptions E.G. Schwarber. 

I think there are a few guys aside from Schwarber that show that it's more than just exceptions: Ozuna, Rooker, Yandy, Raffy and even Suzuki who is only 31 (and is still a decent OF defender per the metrics). 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

21 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Bat speed is a big thing for me too.  I do wonder, given his age, if they can improve his bat speed.  It can certainly be done if he's open to it.  

I'm not worried about Bichette's offense. He's one of the few batters who can take massive cuts with his first two strikes and then shorten his swing and hit line drives. Someone with elite hand-eye can always adjust.

Bregman has a similar approach at the plate, and is a much better fielder... but four years older.

[Hugh2]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think there are a few guys aside from Schwarber that show that it's more than just exceptions: Ozuna, Rooker, Yandy, Raffy and even Suzuki who is only 31 (and is still a decent OF defender per the metrics). 

But even then, that's a small list of guys who were position players up until recently.  I mean just look at free agency, how often are teams going out and giving away multiple and massive DH contracts vs. teams just move a guy off position there.  Most DH's are made, not paid for.  That's telling. 

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

But even then, that's a small list of guys who were position players up until recently.  I mean just look at free agency, how often are teams going out and giving away multiple and massive DH contracts vs. teams just move a guy off position there.  Most DH's are made, not paid for.  That's telling. 

Massive DH contracts have always been an exception. Papi never really got paid. Nelson Cruz was always a year to year guy. Guys like JD Martinez and Schwarber are almost unicorns in that they are fulltime DH's that got PAID.

[Hugh2]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

Massive DH contracts have always been an exception. Papi never really got paid. Nelson Cruz was always a year to year guy. Guys like JD Martinez and Schwarber are almost unicorns in that they are fulltime DH's that got PAID.

Exactly.  Saying teams like to rotate the DH position isn't analogous with DH's don't exist anymore.  Of course they do, one doesn't disprove the other I suppose was my point. 

[JoeBrady]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

31 HRs and 31 2B+3B Vientos

That's a heck of a chart.  I'd like to gamble on Vientos, but given those numbers, the Mets might not be as eager a trading partner.

[mvp 78]

Bobby Dalbec 20-21 per 162:

29 2b/3b, 34 HR, 114 OPS+

Vientos 24-25 per 162:

31 2b/3b, 31 HR, 115 OPS+

[notin]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

You really had to stretch to make that list, and that's barely 1/3 of all teams. 

I mean Ivan Herrera? Someone with 203 career games but less than 1/2 those at DH. 

A lot of those guys were signed to be position players and they DH because they have aged but are under contract, but they can still hit.  Of those guys, Hunter Goodman still caught 104 games last year Suzuki still played 48 games in the outfield last year. 

Sure when a guy falls off and can still hit big I don't think you complain when their name is David Ortiz or Brent Rooker, but I'm sure the New York Yankees would have loved to relieve themeselves of the Giancarlo Stanton contract a few years ago. 

Many of those guys still played a lot of time in the field, because the team was still rotating the DH position and they were the worse defenders.  It's not like teams are going out and signing guys to exclusively be a DH, well at least not often.  Guys like Kyle Schwarber exist....but he's the exception. 

Obviously if you have a guy who can mash you just put him there and don't complain, but these guys playing 50-100 games you call a "DH", do you really think David Ortiz would be playing 50-100 games in the field if he were playing today??? David Ortiz played the field less than most of those guys and he DIDN'T play during a time when you could DH in national league stadiums. 

I suppose I didn't cover Ohtani, who also happens to arguably be the best pitcher.  If he wasn't pitching he'd be fielding, I've heard reports that he profiled as a plus defender in right field.  Is that true? IDK, but he is a freak athlete who is DHing because he's also pitching.  That's literally a situation unlike any other we've ever seen in baseball. 

Of course, if you have a guy who can hit for average and put up 30/100 in the middle of your lineup but has no position you make him your full time DH, that model is still always going to work for some guys.  But without doubt it is not what is desired by most teams.  

So who really rotates the DH? You never answered the question.  Most teams seem to have a starting DH just like they have a starting SS or a starting RF.  It’s not a position you use to “rest” players like fans want.

So again - who has a rotating DH?

[notin]

56 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Exactly.  Saying teams like to rotate the DH position isn't analogous with DH's don't exist anymore.  Of course they do, one doesn't disprove the other I suppose was my point. 

Then what was your point?  I thought you were saying Yoshida was a waste because he’s a dedicated DH and most teams “rotate the DH,” an unexplained phrase that is equally unsupported when attributed to most teams…

[Hugh2]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

So who really rotates the DH? You never answered the question.  Most teams seem to have a starting DH just like they have a starting SS or a starting RF.  It’s not a position you use to “rest” players like fans want.

So again - who has a rotating DH?

You literally posted players who DH'd 60-80 games.  So literally half your list. 

[Hitch]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

It’s not a position you use to “rest” players like fans want.

Why can't it be, however? 

If the roster works out that we have the big 4 in the outfield rotating between the positions and DH I would say that would help us keep all 4 healthy.

[Hugh2]

Just now, notin said:

Then what was your point?  I thought you were saying Yoshida was a waste because he’s a dedicated DH and most teams “rotate the DH,” an unexplained phrase that is equally unsupported when attributed to most teams…

My point was, in the absence of having a David Ortiz type player it's best to be able to use the DH position to rest people.  Every roster is different.  This doesn't mean there isn't a place for guys like Schwarber, that a lot of teams dont' have guys that spend significant time DHin'g etc etc. 

You could say the Sox have a DH in Yoshida.  It's not like he's the shinning glimmering example of a DH.  He clogs up the roster in so many ways, and would you want him playing 20-80 games in the field a year like some of the guys on your list?

[Hugh2]

Here's a better way to frame my argument. 

And this could open up a much longer conversation but for the sake of simplicity "All things considered" do we think that the Boston Red Sox (if they could) would rid themselves of the Yoshida contract? as in, they would owe him nothing and would have to give up nothing to get rid of him?  Do the Sox press that button, or would they elect to keep him and pay him?

[notin]

9 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

You literally posted players who DH'd 60-80 games.  So literally half your list. 

Outside of Hunter Goodman, who?  
 

Are you counting Yordan Alvarez as a part time DH because he was injured? I know hou’re counting Ivan Herrera, who caught maybe 6 games after May 1.  Thats not really rotating players in the position.

Who else?

 

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Here's a better way to frame my argument. 

And this could open up a much longer conversation but for the sake of simplicity "All things considered" do we think that the Boston Red Sox (if they could) would rid themselves of the Yoshida contract? as in, they would owe him nothing and would have to give up nothing to get rid of him?  Do the Sox press that button, or would they elect to keep him and pay him?

They would get rid of him, not because he's a fulltime DH, but because he's an overpaid mediocre to bad fulltime DH (24th in wRC+ for DH's '23-25). 

[Hugh2]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

Outside of Hunter Goodman, who?  
 

Are you counting Yordan Alvarez as a part time DH because he was injured? I know hou’re counting Ivan Herrera, who caught maybe 6 games after May 1.  Thats not really rotating players in the position.

Who else?

 

Whoa whoa whoa how is that burden of proof on me? you're the one who literally omitted the DH position in 2/3 of baseball

[Hugh2]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They would get rid of him, not because he's a fulltime DH, but because he's an overpaid mediocre to bad fulltime DH (24th in wRC+ for DH's '23-25). 

So in other words.....you have to be a very good hitter to be a full time DH.

[Hugh2]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They would get rid of him, not because he's a fulltime DH, but because he's an overpaid mediocre to bad fulltime DH (24th in wRC+ for DH's '23-25). 

Allow me to ask a follow up question. 

What if Yoshida had no options but cost the league minimum? 

[mvp 78]

15 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

So in other words.....you have to be a very good hitter to be a full time DH.

No, they should be a mediocre to bad hitter. Maybe a guy that could barely hit 12-15 HR's if he eating all his Wheaties.