Sox to acquire Sonny Gray

[notin]

4 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

and the Dodgers have five #1s.

Roster Resource lists the following in their rotation - Yamamoto, Snell, Glasnow, Ohtani, Sheehan, Sasaki

No one should dispute Yamamoto and Snell.  Both are elite.  Glasnow?  I can see arguments for and against.  Ohtani?  Talent is there but durability is not.  He’s already had two Tommy John surgeries.  No one has ever come back successfully from a third.

But Sheehan and/or Sasaki? Any definition of a #1 that includes either is just flawed…

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

and the Dodgers have five #1s.

Steamer projects...

3.6 Yamamoto (Crochet 5.6)

3.5 Snell (Gray 3.9)

3.1 Glasnow (Bello 2.0)

2.8 Ohtani (Sandoval 1.7)

1.8 Sheehan (Crawford 1.1)

1.7 Sasaki (Early 1.1, Tolle 0.9, Harrison 0.6, Dobbins 0.2))

 

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It's a way of distinguishing how good your rotation is. You may think it's "overthinking," but others see it as simplifying how we compare one staff to another or one starter to another with just 5 simple numbers rather than a mix of several other numbers.

The Sox might have one #1, two #3's, two #4's and four #5's.

The Yanks might have one #1, three #3's and 3 number 5's.

The Jays might have ...

Nobody "has to assign a number," but people do it all the time, but by using EAR, fWAR, ERA-/ERA+ or other stats, metrics or combinations of things.

 

How the pitchers do on the mound distinguishes how good your rotation is, and how good that particular pitcher is.. Not the number assigned to them. As I’ve asked before do you before a game look at the matchup that particular day, and say we got a #4 going against their #2? You should already know who the better pitcher is. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with it, but just not needed for me.

[moonslav59]

49 minutes ago, Old Red said:

How the pitchers do on the mound distinguishes how good your rotation is, and how good that particular pitcher is.. Not the number assigned to them. As I’ve asked before do you before a game look at the matchup that particular day, and say we got a #4 going against their #2? You should already know who the better pitcher is. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with it, but just not needed for me.

Okay.

Some prefer using numbers to support their positions- some don't.

Fine all around.

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Okay.

Some prefer using numbers to support their positions- some don't.

Fine all around.

We agree.👍

[moonslav59]

It would be nice to get a SP'er better than Gray and Bello. Call him a #2, #1 or whatever. Just say, "He's better than Bello & Gray" is fine, too.

I doubt we'll have the resources available to get a better pitcher and address our needs for improved offense, unless JH does the unexpected.

To me, we have Crochet in his prime. We have many younger players approaching prime and not being paid a lot to deliver high value. There is a clear window open, right now. It should last at least 2-3 years more, if not 4-5, so if there ever was a time to sign a 4-6 year deal or two for top talent, it is this winter. I don't say this every year. We did spend a lot, last winter, but much was on one year deals, and the Gio deal ended. We also traded Devers, so there is more than enough reasons to spend bigly.

Wake up, JH!

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Wake up, JH!

Only 2 of the top 20 FA SP's have signed as of today (Cease and Ponce). Unless you are very concerned that Ponce got away, I think Brezzz should be given a little time. 

[Duran Is The Man]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Only 2 of the top 20 FA SP's have signed as of today (Cease and Ponce). Unless you are very concerned that Ponce got away, I think Brezzz should be given a little time. 

Brez is waiting for the all the decent pitchers to sign so he can pick from the cream of the crap and save Henry some money. we all know it.

[drewski6]

4 hours ago, Hitch said:

I'm struggling to believe that the Jays also bring back Bichette at the moment.

You think theyll get Tucker?

[moonslav59]

55 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Only 2 of the top 20 FA SP's have signed as of today (Cease and Ponce). Unless you are very concerned that Ponce got away, I think Brezzz should be given a little time. 

I'm not saying "Wake up!" because he slept through these two signings. I didn't want either. I wouldn't want Cease for a 3 year deal.

I'm telling him he better wake up and not cut corners on spending. Even the second tax line should not be an issue, if we can't get what we need by staying under it.

A trade of Duran and or Campbell for K Marte would not cost much, and would fill a great need. That should allow JH to spend on Alonso or Bregman, or at least Suarez or maybe M King or someone else. (I'm not high on Bichette.)

[Kimmi]

21 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i like him even more now.

My sentiments, exactly.

[moonslav59]

21 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i like him even more now.

"I couldn't be happier [to be a Yankee.]"

 

We talk about GMs saying what they have to say, but players do, too.

[Kimmi]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

It would be nice to get a SP'er better than Gray and Bello. Call him a #2, #1 or whatever. Just say, "He's better than Bello & Gray" is fine, too.

I doubt we'll have the resources available to get a better pitcher and address our needs for improved offense, unless JH does the unexpected.

To me, we have Crochet in his prime. We have many younger players approaching prime and not being paid a lot to deliver high value. There is a clear window open, right now. It should last at least 2-3 years more, if not 4-5, so if there ever was a time to sign a 4-6 year deal or two for top talent, it is this winter. I don't say this every year. We did spend a lot, last winter, but much was on one year deals, and the Gio deal ended. We also traded Devers, so there is more than enough reasons to spend bigly.

Wake up, JH!

I like the trade for Gray, especially after hearing how much money the Cards are throwing in.  My kind of move.

That said, I'm pretty much in agreement with your post.  It would be nice to get another strong starting pitcher to slot in behind Crochet.  

I think the Red Sox should spend this winter, just not on any crazy contracts.  Four to six year deals would be fine.

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We talk about GMs saying what they have to say, but players do, too.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I like the trade for Gray, especially after hearing how much money the Cards are throwing in.  My kind of move.

That said, I'm pretty much in agreement with your post.  It would be nice to get another strong starting pitcher to slot in behind Crochet.  

I think the Red Sox should spend this winter, just not on any crazy contracts.  Four to six year deals would be fine.

I don't disagree. Not many "crazy contracts" work out well, and if they do, it's usually just for 1-2 years.

The main issue I see is that this strategy works well, when you have 5-8 slots needing significant upgrades, but I think this team has done a very good job filling almost every slot with capable players or multiple promising options at those without a sure plus player. This year we have 3 major needs and not many decent options to fill them without outside help: Power bat (RH'd) at 1B/3B, a 2Bman (power would be nice) and a strong & reliable SP'er that is better than Bello.

Maybe Gray filled that third slot, and we probably have to accept that our rotation is what it is. That leaves 2 bats, and we can't skimp. We don't need to pay Tucker for 6+ years. We should not pay Bichette for 6+ years, IMO. I'm not for giving Bregman even 5 years. 4 is probably too much. That leaves precious few choices, but the good thing is that all of these guys will likely not get more than 5 years and some might take 3-4 year deals.

Tier 1: Schwarber, Alonso, K Marte (signed for 4 at 419.5M AAV)

Tier 2: Okamoto, Suarez & Polanco (maybe Bregman at 4 yrs) I'd add R Suarez or M King, but I doubt we go there.

[Larry Cook]

6 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

and the Dodgers have five #1s.

And the best farm system in baseball!! But heavy on outfielders at the moment.