The Red Sox Are Already Facing a 40-man Roster Crunch

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd put Hamilton at SS before Sogard. 

Then you haven't seen enough of Sogard there.

I know I've seen enough of Hamilton there.

And this is where we at, with currently one starting infielder on the Red Sox who are all about championships...

... with a manager who just ran the New York marathon in 4 and a half hours, which is how long it would take me to drive into and out of the Bronx if I hit the lights just right and didn't get lost.

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

vs RHPs, maybe. 

Sogard is a fairly decent switch hitter, so he can go against LHP. I think I'd rather him play SS than Romy.

Romy seems like strictly a right side of the IF guy to me (bad range, bad arm). 

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Then you haven't seen enough of Sogard there.

I know I've seen enough of Hamilton there.

The Sox look at Hamilton and see a Dansby Swanson-esque fielder (rangy, bad arm). If Swanson could put up good metrics at SS, maybe Hamilton could too. I don't think Sogard could even put up average metrics over a full season. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The Sox look at Hamilton and see a Dansby Swanson-esque fielder (rangy, bad arm). If Swanson could put up good metrics at SS, maybe Hamilton could too. I don't think Sogard could even put up average metrics over a full season. 

Sogard's a good baseball player; Hamilton's a good athlete. If I'm trying to win a playoff game, I know which one I'd prefer coming off the bench. 

Not disparaging your choice, but I've personally seen enough shaky D in Boston lately to think that's not going to get it done. I also admit I'm tainted by just seeing all the big plays made by both World Series teams at the end of Game Seven...

[notin]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Sogard's a good baseball player; Hamilton's a good athlete. If I'm trying to win a playoff game, I know which one I'd prefer coming off the bench. 

Not disparaging your choice, but I've personally seen enough shaky D in Boston lately to think that's not going to get it done. I also admit I'm tainted by just seeing all the big plays made by both World Series teams at the end of Game Seven...

Sogard vs Hamilton on defense are good players to put into the hypothetical example for defense.  If you hit each 100 identical ground balls, Sogard would get to 80 but make every play. Hamilton would get to all 100 but make 10 errors…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, notin said:

Sogard vs Hamilton on defense are good players to put into the hypothetical example for defense.  If you hit each 100 identical ground balls, Sogard would get to 80 but make every play. Hamilton would get to all 100 but make 10 errors…

Good example, but I'm not so sure on the totals. I've seen Sogard lay out to stop shots in both the shortstop hole and second base hole, and up the middle into centerfield. Hamilton's quicker, but Sogard may have better baseball instincts and get a better read on contact or swing direction or pitch shape (like Ripken did).

I'd edit it to Sogard gets to 90. Then you have Sogard as a switch hitter vs. Hammy's occasional pop but lower OPS. Though we know they'll keep Davey for pinch-running...

[moonslav59]

There is a good chance there won't be a choice between DHam & Sogard or even Eaton. Once we DFA or trade Grissom, we may have room for all 3, or 2 without Eaton.

[notin]

18 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Good example, but I'm not so sure on the totals. I've seen Sogard lay out to stop shots in both the shortstop hole and second base hole, and up the middle into centerfield. Hamilton's quicker, but Sogard may have better baseball instincts and get a better read on contact or swing direction or pitch shape (like Ripken did).

I'd edit it to Sogard gets to 90. Then you have Sogard as a switch hitter vs. Hammy's occasional pop but lower OPS. Though we know they'll keep Davey for pinch-running...

Based on what?  Other than a desire to promote Sogard baselessly?  

StatCast had Hamilton in the 73rd percentile for range.  Sogard didn’t have enough data for a ranking, but reports on him indicate his arm and range are average and he is playable at SS short term.  Now an average arm is better than Hamilton (37th percentile) has, but that might be Sogard’s only defensive advantage.  I’m not quite ready to compare Sogard to Ripken after 56 innings at SS over a two year period, including all of 5 innings last year.

Offensively, MLB playing time is heavily skewed towards Hamilton.  But both players’ career minor league OPS’s were exactly .770, and nearly identical OPS and OPS+ in MLB. Switch hitter or not, offense is probably where these two are closer to equal…

[notin]

14 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

There is a good chance there won't be a choice between DHam & Sogard or even Eaton. Once we DFA or trade Grissom, we may have room for all 3, or 2 without Eaton.

The Sox are not keeping all 3 on the 26 man roster, unless Hamilton is part of a platoon at 2b again.  There are only going to be 3 non-catcher bench spots, and Romy owns one of them.

Of course, Grissom was far and away the best MiLB hitter of this bunch.  I’m sure Boston would like nothing more than to see him bounce back, even if it’s just a utility INF role.  (And if that happens, cue the stupid commentary that the Sox only kept him to save face after the Sale trade.)

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, notin said:

The Sox are not keeping all 3 on the 26 man roster, unless Hamilton is part of a platoon at 2b again.  There are only going to be 3 non-catcher bench spots, and Romy owns one of them.

Of course, Grissom was far and away the best MiLB hitter of this bunch.  I’m sure Boston would like nothing more than to see him bounce back, even if it’s just a utility INF role.  (And if that happens, cue the stupid commentary that the Sox only kept him to save face after the Sale trade.)

I was talking 40 man roster.

No way all 3 are on the 26. There might be just 1.

[notin]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I was talking 40 man roster.

No way all 3 are on the 26. There might be just 1.

If all 3 are on the 26, it only happens if there is a Hamilton/Gonzalez platoon at 2b.  At least that Yos the best case scenario for all three being there, but it’s still not a desirable outcome…

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

If all 3 are on the 26, it only happens if there is a Hamilton/Gonzalez platoon at 2b.  At least that Yos the best case scenario for all three being there, but it’s still not a desirable outcome…

I still dont see all 3, unless there's an injury or Romy is our platoon/FT 1Bman or DH.

I know Eaton can play OF, but I'd prefer a better 4th OF'er not names Masa on the 26, and we have several better than Eaton. (THe issue is we don't want Campbell or Garcia on the 26 as a strict short side platoon.)

[Deja Doh]

Bregman at 3rd, Story at short, Bichette at 2nd, Alonso at 1st.  There is your infield.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Deja Doh said:

Bregman at 3rd, Story at short, Bichette at 2nd, Alonso at 1st.  There is your infield.

Sub Mayer for Bregman or Bichette, and this is still a likely pipedream.

(I like it though! Suarez at 1B or 3B would be cheaper and pretty good, too. :Polanco at 2B would add more power and give us a switch hitter over 3 RHBs.)

[notin]

1 hour ago, Deja Doh said:

Bregman at 3rd, Story at short, Bichette at 2nd, Alonso at 1st.  There is your infield.

I have my doubts about Henry committing over $500 to 3 infielders this off-season.  And where does Mayer play? Worcester?

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, notin said:

I have my doubts about Henry committing over $500 to 3 infielders this off-season.  And where does Mayer play? Worcester?

I'm 200% sure Mayer is handed a FT position before ST'ing. It could be 3B, 2B or a long shot SS, if Cora wakes up and moves Story to 2B.

It should be:

1B: ______ (Alonso, Suarez, then maybe Hoskins/Bell)

2B: Story 

SS: Mayer

3B: _____ (Bregman, Suarez)

It might be...

1B: Hoskins

2B: Polanco or Mayer

SS: Story

3B: Mayer or Bregman (Suarez?)

[Duran Is The Man]

37 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Sub Mayer for Bregman or Bichette, and this is still a likely pipedream.

(I like it though! Suarez at 1B or 3B would be cheaper and pretty good, too. :Polanco at 2B would add more power and give us a switch hitter over 3 RHBs.)

i'm just not that high on Suarez. i know he had a good season with AZ but that seemed to end after he was traded. during his time with the Mariners (53 games & 220 PAs) he slashed .189/.225/.428/.682  yuk.

i'd be fine with Polo at 2B.

[notin]

29 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm 200% sure Mayer is handed a FT position before ST'ing. It could be 3B, 2B or a long shot SS, if Cora wakes up and moves Story to 2B.

It should be:

1B: ______ (Alonso, Suarez, then maybe Hoskins/Bell)

2B: Story 

SS: Mayer

3B: _____ (Bregman, Suarez)

It might be...

1B: Hoskins

2B: Polanco or Mayer

SS: Story

3B: Mayer or Bregman (Suarez?)

I could see them revisiting Arenado at 3b if they can move Yoshida for him.  Alec Bohm is another reportedly available candidate I could see happening.

This does assume Alonso at 1b.  I’ve been thinking Bregman is more likely than Alonso, but Alonso is probably the cheaper of the two, which does certainly work in his favor…

[moonslav59]

31 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i'm just not that high on Suarez. i know he had a good season with AZ but that seemed to end after he was traded. during his time with the Mariners (53 games & 220 PAs) he slashed .189/.225/.428/.682  yuk.

i'd be fine with Polo at 2B.

Suarez averaged 35 HRs per 162 from 2018-2014, so he's been a big power bat for longer than just 2025.

2018-2024: .330 OBP and a real good SLG of .474 (.804 OPS)

Last 5 seasons (29-33 age) 34 HRs per 162. 40 HRs per 162 in last 2 years.

I like him more because he will be maybe half the cost of Alonso and Schwarber and is a better defender than both.

[moonslav59]

27 minutes ago, notin said:

I could see them revisiting Arenado at 3b if they can move Yoshida for him.  Alec Bohm is another reportedly available candidate I could see happening.

This does assume Alonso at 1b.  I’ve been thinking Bregman is more likely than Alonso, but Alonso is probably the cheaper of the two, which does certainly work in his favor…

Arenado has lost his offensive skillset. He might be better than Yoshida, due to defense, but I don't want him as our FT 3Bman or 1Bman. I'd rather have Masa DH.

[Duran Is The Man]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Suarez averaged 35 HRs per 162 from 2018-2014, so he's been a big power bat for longer than just 2025.

2018-2024: .330 OBP and a real good SLG of .474 (.804 OPS)

Last 5 seasons (29-33 age) 34 HRs per 162. 40 HRs per 162 in last 2 years.

I like him more because he will be maybe half the cost of Alonso and Schwarber and is a better defender than both.

there is no denying his past, but lets use a term you and other so often use to disparage Jarren Duran -declining. Suarez is 34 years old and i think it's safe to say that his best years are behind him. now....with that said, i wouldn't be against him if we don't get Polanco. my infield/outfield would be Narvaez at 2, Alonso at 3, Story at 4, Bregman (or Suarez) at 5, Mayer at 6, Duran at 7, Rafaela at 8 and Abreu at 9.  IF we don't sign Bregman then i'd wan't Polanco at 4, Mayer at 5 and Story at 6.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Duran Is The Man said:

there is no denying his past, but lets use a term you and other so often use to disparage Jarren Duran -declining. Suarez is 34 years old and i think it's safe to say that his best years are behind him. now....with that said, i wouldn't be against him if we don't get Polanco. my infield/outfield would be Narvaez at 2, Alonso at 3, Story at 4, Bregman (or Suarez) at 5, Mayer at 6, Duran at 7, Rafaela at 8 and Abreu at 9.  IF we don't sign Bregman then i'd wan't Polanco at 4, Mayer at 5 and Story at 6.

1. I withdrew my "decline" position on Duran, despite his drop off. 

2. Suarez has improved as he's aged, but yes, his age is scary as hell.

3. Duran's best year is likely behind him. Suarez had 49 Hrs many years ago, and he did again this season.

4. I only like Suarez, because I think JH does not like long deals, and his age means he won't get one.

5. I'm thinking Polanco might take a short deal to prove he deserves a 3-4 year deal in 2027.

6. I'm thinking we need two big bats and at today's money, how else do we get JH to pay for it, without 1 or two of them being shorter term deals?

If it was up to me, I'd sign Schwarber DH, Polanco 2B and Alonso 1B. Let someone else sign Suarez.

[Duran Is The Man]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

1. I withdrew my "decline" position on Duran, despite his drop off. 

2. Suarez has improved as he's aged, but yes, his age is scary as hell.

3. Duran's best year is likely behind him. Suarez had 49 Hrs many years ago, and he did again this season.

4. I only like Suarez, because I think JH does not like long deals, and his age means he won't get one.

5. I'm thinking Polanco might take a short deal to prove he deserves a 3-4 year deal in 2027.

6. I'm thinking we need two big bats and at today's money, how else do we get JH to pay for it, without 1 or two of them being shorter term deals?

If it was up to me, I'd sign Schwarber DH, Polanco 2B and Alonso 1B. Let someone else sign Suarez.

i agree with all of this -even that Duran's best years may be behind him. but maybe not; he's just 29. i think people describe him as "declining" to justify trading him. and to be clear, i'm against trading him; i would just want something worthwhile in return. something, other than the garbage we got for Betts, Devers, Sale, etc.

[moonslav59]

56 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i agree with all of this -even that Duran's best years may be behind him. but maybe not; he's just 29. i think people describe him as "declining" to justify trading him. and to be clear, i'm against trading him; i would just want something worthwhile in return. something, other than the garbage we got for Betts, Devers, Sale, etc.

This is not the same type of trade situation as the ones you listed. He has 2 years of control left.

I'm not really happy about trading a top 3 offensive player on the team, when I'm also saying we need two big bats, but there is some context needed.

Anthony and Duran should not DH, so we have those two plus two GG OF'er who play very difficult Fenway positions- RF and CF. I'm okay with trading one of them and not Duran, but they both are under control for longer, cost less AAV and are way better on defense.

We have a great need at SP2, 1B and 3B/2B, so a trade of a valuable OF'er makes sense. I mention trading Duran a lot, for these reasons, and within the context of the 4 we have, Duran is closer to his decline years than the others. Duran may very well have a career year in 2026 or 2027, but I think 2024 was will be his career year.

I'm not for trading him for Jeter Downs, Verdugo and Wong.

I'm not for trading him for Harrison, Hicks Jose Bello and Tibbs (traded for D May.)

I'd trade him for Lodolo. I'd trade him for Joe Ryan. To me, that is evidence I value him highly.

 

[JoeBrady]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm 200% sure Mayer is handed a FT position before ST'ing. It could be 3B, 2B or a long shot SS, if Cora wakes up and moves Story to 2B.

It should be:

1B: ______ (Alonso, Suarez, then maybe Hoskins/Bell)

2B: Story 

SS: Mayer

3B: _____ (Bregman, Suarez)

It might be...

1B: Hoskins

2B: Polanco or Mayer

SS: Story

3B: Mayer or Bregman (Suarez?)

C-Narvaez

1B-Alonso

2B-Story

SS-Kim

3B-Mayer

LF-Anthony

CF-Rafaela

RF-Abreu

DH-Yoshida

Rotation-Crochet-Trade-Bello-Early-Sandoval

1-Kim & Alonso cost maybe $45M+.  We have $38M available.  A trade of Duran adds $8M, and NT Lowe adds $12M, leaving us with $15M to cover whoever we trade for as our #2.  I'd also have no objection to signing a #4 SP and letting the field vy for #5.

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

C-Narvaez

1B-Alonso

2B-Story

SS-Kim

3B-Mayer

LF-Anthony

CF-Rafaela

RF-Abreu

DH-Yoshida

Rotation-Crochet-Trade-Bello-Early-Sandoval

1-Kim & Alonso cost maybe $45M+.  We have $38M available.  A trade of Duran adds $8M, and NT Lowe adds $12M, leaving us with $15M to cover whoever we trade for as our #2.  I'd also have no objection to signing a #4 SP and letting the field vy for #5.

 

[moonslav59]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

 

I think the $38M is counting Lowe's $10-12M.

[moonslav59]

52 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

C-Narvaez

1B-Alonso

2B-Story

SS-Kim

3B-Mayer

LF-Anthony

CF-Rafaela

RF-Abreu

DH-Yoshida

Rotation-Crochet-Trade-Bello-Early-Sandoval

1-Kim & Alonso cost maybe $45M+.  We have $38M available.  A trade of Duran adds $8M, and NT Lowe adds $12M, leaving us with $15M to cover whoever we trade for as our #2.  I'd also have no objection to signing a #4 SP and letting the field vy for #5.

Kim is below avg in DRS and OAA on D.

Nope.

[Larry Cook]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Kim is below avg in DRS and OAA on D.

Nope.

The athletic said he is a huge defensive improvement over story. 

[moonslav59]

32 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

The athletic said he is a huge defensive improvement over story. 

I'll trust DRS and OAA. if you're below avg on both...