The 2025 postseason, post-Red Sox

[Kimmi]

20 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I read somewhere the cost might end up being $110M/4. If so, he shoulda taken the remaining $80M/2 from the Sox.

I'd probably offer him that, but we'd still need a bigger bat.

I would not offer Bregman a 4-year contract.  I'm interested to see what he ends up getting because $40M a year is a LOT to turn down, despite it only being for 2 more years.

My focus is still on starting pitching.  I could survive going with the position players that we currently have, assuming good health.  

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I would not offer Bregman a 4-year contract.  I'm interested to see what he ends up getting because $40M a year is a LOT to turn down, despite it only being for 2 more years.

My focus is still on starting pitching.  I could survive going with the position players that we currently have, assuming good health.  

I agree. The three years Bregman signed for originally was the right amount of years IMO.

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I would not offer Bregman a 4-year contract.  I'm interested to see what he ends up getting because $40M a year is a LOT to turn down, despite it only being for 2 more years.

My focus is still on starting pitching.  I could survive going with the position players that we currently have, assuming good health.  

Offense was a grave concern in 2025, and losing Devers and Bregman was about 830 PAs or our very best rates.

We can count on maybe 600+ PAs from Anthony and hope he matches his 2025 OPS, but that's not near enough to even get us to equal. We have some younger players, but who jumps out as an expected big jump up?

Narvaez could step back. Rafaela could, too.

Abreu might be our best hope.

Mayer? Campbell? Jh Garcia or Campbell?

[Kimmi]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Offense was a grave concern in 2025, and losing Devers and Bregman was about 830 PAs or our very best rates.

We can count on maybe 600+ PAs from Anthony and hope he matches his 2025 OPS, but that's not near enough to even get us to equal. We have some younger players, but who jumps out as an expected big jump up?

Narvaez could step back. Rafaela could, too.

Abreu might be our best hope.

Mayer? Campbell? Jh Garcia or Campbell?

I admit that it's very risky relying on so many young players who are largely unknown.  I'm hoping that Casas can remain healthy and provide some thump, along with the names that you mentioned.  There are a lot of ifs, no doubt.

Do I really expect the FO to remain status quo on position players?  No, I don't, but I'm not sure how much of an upgrade new acquirees will provide over the core that we have unless we go big.  You know how I feel about that.  

[Old Red]

36 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I admit that it's very risky relying on so many young players who are largely unknown.  I'm hoping that Casas can remain healthy and provide some thump, along with the names that you mentioned.  There are a lot of ifs, no doubt.

Do I really expect the FO to remain status quo on position players?  No, I don't, but I'm not sure how much of an upgrade new acquirees will provide over the core that we have unless we go big.  You know how I feel about that.  

It’s not just relying on so many young players, but relying on them to be good, which most likely all will not turn out as good as many on here have been dreaming about for years now. Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy all won championships playing for the Red Sox, and all turned out being good players. How many of the current crop of youngsters will be as good, and how many of championships will they win? Time will tell. Anything short of Championships after all the hype will be a failure IMO. Casas, and Mayer has broken down at early ages, which isn’t a good sign.

 

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I admit that it's very risky relying on so many young players who are largely unknown.  I'm hoping that Casas can remain healthy and provide some thump, along with the names that you mentioned.  There are a lot of ifs, no doubt.

Do I really expect the FO to remain status quo on position players?  No, I don't, but I'm not sure how much of an upgrade new acquirees will provide over the core that we have unless we go big.  You know how I feel about that.  

IMO, we have a clear window. That window can go on for 4+ more years. I just don't feel like this is the time we establish a plan based on just hopes and a few minor upgrades that you can get by limiting how large and long you go on FAs.

Hopes on less injuries.

Hopes on younger players improvements outweigh any step-backs.

Hopes on hitting on minor signings, when our record has not been too good with them.

Okay, maybe we find the next Bregman, who will take a massive overpay on a 1 year deal, but remember, he got the opt out, so if he sucked, we'd have been stuck for 2 more years at $40M each.

With all due respect, and I get your point, I feel we just have to go large and long on at least one guy and maybe moderately large and long on a second guy. We can't fiddle around, this winter. We lost Devers, Bregman, Giolito, Wilson, Matz, Refsnyder and maybe Lowe. Yes, we also lost some guys that look like addition by subtraction- like Buehler, but unlike past seasons, the pluses way outweigh the minuses we are losing from the 2025 roster.

IMO, we need to do more than just try to get back to status quo and then pray for  the kids to carry us farther. To get back to status quo, we need to stay even with 1000 PAs lost by Devers, Bregman & Ref plus the IP's by Gio and a few others. Just doing this almost certainly means adding 1-3 guys on big contracts or trading some of the future for more cost effective replacements. That's before even addressing trying to get better on paper.

This is not the time for rolling the dice on just the kids.

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It’s not just relying on so many young players, but relying on them to be good, which most likely all will not turn out as good as many on here have been dreaming about for years now. Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy all won championships playing for the Red Sox, and all turned out being good players. How many of the current crop of youngsters will be as good, and how many of championships will they win? Time will tell. Anything short of Championships after all the hype will be a failure IMO. Casas, and Mayer has broken down at early ages, which isn’t a good sign.

 

We kinda knew all the hyped kids were not going to bust out, and certainly not in year one- although Casas and a few others are beyond year one.

I agree with you on not relying so much on kids being good, continuing being good and getting better. It's okay to count on a certain amount of them to contribute, but we need to have contingency plans in place that are better than Toro, as well as some major upgrades at a minimum of 2-3 key slots.

It's just my opinion, but I see 3 major additions needed to be a top 4-5 competitive team in MLB: SP2, 1B and 2B/3B. The last one is betting on Mayer/Romy being able to cover the one not filled. That might be hoping & praying for too much, by itself, but to me, it's an acceptable risk. Alternatively, we could maybe sign a guy like Merrill Kelly, and trade an OF'er plus others for someone like K Marte (1B) and then add a 1Bman AND 3Bman and keep Mayer as a tangible depth asset. ( I suppose we could follow MVP's advice and trade Mayer.)

In short, we need to get bold to win. The Crochet, Chapman and Bregman adds were bold. We gained 8 wins. Ideally, we need to add another 8 wins. That won't happen staying status quo, and it certainly should not happen if we don't replace Bregman/Devers and Gio in  kind.

[d-money]

I am so tired of the freaking dodgers. I bet they will spend like drunken sailors again. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, d-money said:

I am so tired of the freaking dodgers. I bet they will spend like drunken sailors again. 

They are certainly this centuries' hated Yankees.

I'm not sure if losing would cause more spending or not. I still want the Jays to sweep them!

At least they are in the NL.

[moonslav59]

Couldn't stay up for the ending, but man-o-man, Freddie Freeman da man!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

15 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Couldn't stay up for the ending, but man-o-man, Freddie Freeman da man!

Home run! It was predictable that's what would take to win the "second" game last night, and LA had a huge edge once the Jays replaced Springer, Bichette, Barger and Kirk in their lineup.

The postseason is all about HRs, because the pitching is so good it's less likely clubs can string together an inning with three singles to produce a run -- or two hits and a well-placed grounder or sac fly -- instead of one big swing.

[mvp 78]

11 hours ago, d-money said:

I am so tired of the freaking dodgers. I bet they will spend like drunken sailors again. 

If only JH would too. 🤐

[drewski6]

18 hours ago, Kimmi said:

There's always figure skating and the upcoming winter Olympics.  🙃

michelle kwan wont return my calls :/

[notin]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Home run! It was predictable that's what would take to win the "second" game last night, and LA had a huge edge once the Jays replaced Springer, Bichette, Barger and Kirk in their lineup.

The postseason is all about HRs, because the pitching is so good it's less likely clubs can string together an inning with three singles to produce a run -- or two hits and a well-placed grounder or sac fly -- instead of one big swing.

Once Springer went down and Bichette was replaced, that Jays lineup looked downright anemic.   Almost as weak as the Sox lineup in the last 8 or so innings of the only other 18 inning World Series game back in 2018…

[drewski6]

19 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

After all the real or fake runs at big names, I do think they felt a great need to make a show to the fans that they were not lying by signing Breggie. I'm not sure the sham worked, as it turned out to be just a one and done, and then shortly afterwards, they dumped Devers, so if anything, we are behind where we were before the Bregman signing, last winter. Way behind.

not buying their crap, today, eh? love it

[drewski6]

19 hours ago, notin said:

Cora was the only one to mention 2b, which he did in an article on NESN.   But he also never played him there.  So it doesn’t look like whether or not Alonso could have played 2b was ever an option.

Bregman might have been “last man standing,” but not by much; Alonso signed with the Mets a mere 3 days previous.  And since they probably started talks with Bregman more than 72 hours before signing him, Alonso was always there as an option.

Maybe they did talk to Pete’s people and at the time, a pillow contract was off the table?  Not sure.  But the Sox definitely had ample opportunity to talk to both, but we’re far more dedicated in their pursuit of Bregman…

well sir, before we get too far away from it, the original conversation of whether or not sox prioritizing bregman over alonso last year ....how much that implies theyll pursue bregman over alonso this year....

and im still not sure, its safe assumption because a few things have changed.  

They may be more likely to go after the power bat because they salary dumped their only one, and also 1b is looking less locked down than it looked this time last year.

I do agree with you the best bet is usually with the incumbent team , but im not sure in this case, they'll show the same priorities. I do fully expect to have them kick tires/initiate conversations on both.

[notin]

Just now, drewski6 said:

well sir, before we get too far away from it, the original conversation of whether or not sox prioritizing bregman over alonso last year ....how much that implies theyll pursue bregman over alonso this year....

and im still not sure, its safe assumption because a few things have changed.  

They may be more likely to go after the power bat because they salary dumped their only one, and also 1b is looking less locked down than it looked this time last year.

I do agree with you the best bet is usually with the incumbent team , but im not sure in this case, they'll show the same priorities. I do fully expect to have them kick tires/initiate conversations on both.

Well, don’t go looking too deeply. It is an assumption as you said.  But in the absence of actual feedback from the team, what else do we have to go on?

Either of us could make arguments all day long supporting the opposite side.  But those are really just opinions and theories.  I was explicit in that I was using limited data, but that the Sox had the opportunity to sign both last year is a fact.  And that they signed Bregman is a fact.  Whether or not it holds true again is conjecture.  But it is all we really have with regards to facts…

[Jasonbay44]

I could barely stay up for that game as it lasted till almost 3 am, but what an insane game. Ohtani was on base NINE times last night. 4-4 with 2 homers and 2 doubles and then was intentionally walked his last 5 plate appearances. Absolutely absurd stat line 

[notin]

1 minute ago, Jasonbay44 said:

I could barely stay up for that game as it lasted till almost 3 am, but what an insane game. Ohtani was on base NINE times last night. 4-4 with 2 homers and 2 doubles and then was intentionally walked his last 5 plate appearances. Absolutely absurd stat line 

They came up with that IBB strategy one plate appearance too late…

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

I could barely stay up for that game as it lasted till almost 3 am, but what an insane game. Ohtani was on base NINE times last night. 4-4 with 2 homers and 2 doubles and then was intentionally walked his last 5 plate appearances. Absolutely absurd stat line 

Like Barry Bonds without the roids.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

41 minutes ago, notin said:

Once Springer went down and Bichette was replaced, that Jays lineup looked downright anemic.   Almost as weak as the Sox lineup in the last 8 or so innings of the only other 18 inning World Series game back in 2018…

You lost me at 2018. I was sure the end of your sentence was going here: 

"Almost as weak as the Sox lineup in the last..." WILD CARD ROUND A MONTH AGO!

[Bellhorn04]

4 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Home run! It was predictable that's what would take to win the "second" game last night, and LA had a huge edge once the Jays replaced Springer, Bichette, Barger and Kirk in their lineup.

The postseason is all about HRs, because the pitching is so good it's less likely clubs can string together an inning with three singles to produce a run -- or two hits and a well-placed grounder or sac fly -- instead of one big swing.

As Earl Weaver said, you win baseball games with pitching, fundamentals and 3-run homers.

[Bellhorn04]

2 hours ago, Jasonbay44 said:

I could barely stay up for that game as it lasted till almost 3 am, but what an insane game. Ohtani was on base NINE times last night. 4-4 with 2 homers and 2 doubles and then was intentionally walked his last 5 plate appearances. Absolutely absurd stat line 

And tonight he'll also pitch.

Freakin' Dodgers...

Goodbye 2027 season.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And tonight he'll also pitch.

Freakin' Dodgers...

Goodbye 2027 season.

It's absolutely disgusting. Could you imagine if the underdog Canadian team with the 500M 1b and the 255M payroll won? It's not like they were finalists for the bidding wars of Ohtani or Soto or anything. 

[notin]

3 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

You lost me at 2018. I was sure the end of your sentence was going here: 

"Almost as weak as the Sox lineup in the last..." WILD CARD ROUND A MONTH AGO!

So either you have forgotten that lineup that had Kinsler, Nunez, Vazquez, Leon and Eovaldi (2 ABs) or you just couldn’t resist taking another potshot at the 2025 Red Sox…

[notin]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

As Earl Weaver said, you win baseball games with pitching, fundamentals and 3-run homers.

And defense, especially for exploiting overly aggressive baserunning…

[moonslav59]

Does anyone play ball like the ole O's used to do?

[notin]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Does anyone play ball like the ole O's used to do?

No.

 

Weaver was a strong believer in using only a 4 man starting rotation…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

34 minutes ago, notin said:

So either you have forgotten that lineup that had Kinsler, Nunez, Vazquez, Leon and Eovaldi (2 ABs) or you just couldn’t resist taking another potshot at the 2025 Red Sox…

They all could've batted clean-up for the '25 Sox, and I'm not on pot.

[Duran Is The Man]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

As Earl Weaver said, you win baseball games with pitching, fundamentals and 3-run homers.

after trading Devers, the Sox were 24th in home runs -of any kind. nice job Brez.