OMG - they are toast!

[ocaladick]

Bases loaded with nobody out and then 3 strikeouts? WTF! Tie the game in the 9th with our new 1st baseman - should have been a tremendous boost to the team's morale, but what happens in the 10th? Our closer is gone - not closing a game again, only prolonging it - so how about another run scoring opportunity situation in the bottom of the 10th? Good thing we have a bunch of people who can't even hit a sacrifice fly! Finally Anthony hits a fly in the 11th to score the tying run - but wait - the 3rd base coach is so scared, he holds the runner (sure could have used Hamilton as a pinch runner if only he was here).They suck - dump them all and bring up a AAA club - they can do as well. I am done with them - they are toast.

[moonslav59]

Please, just find another team to root for.

[Tedballgame]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Please, just find another team to root for.

 

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Please, just find another team to root for.

His post was fine up to the wanting David Hamilton on the team. They are not toast but last night was extremely frustrating for all Sox fans. I also think the third base coach made a huge mistake by not trying to score. If the guy with a poor arm throws a strike then so be it. Also, Cora should have called for a saftey squeeze with Toro. I was in St. Louis last month and the Padres successfully excuted two safety squeeze plays in a row. Just bunt the ball toward first or second. Not rocket science.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Tedballgame said:

 

His post was fine up to the wanting David Hamilton on the team. They are not toast but last night was extremely frustrating for all Sox fans. I also think the third base coach made a huge mistake by not trying to score. If the guy with a poor arm throws a strike then so be it. Also, Cora should have called for a saftey squeeze with Toro. I was in St. Louis last month and the Padres successfully excuted two safety squeeze plays in a row. Just bunt the ball toward first or second. Not rocket science.

Last night sucked. The last 10 games have sucked.

Why throw out the whole season based on 1 or 10 games and past, totally different teams failures & flops?

[notin]

1 hour ago, Tedballgame said:

 

His post was fine up to the wanting David Hamilton on the team. They are not toast but last night was extremely frustrating for all Sox fans. I also think the third base coach made a huge mistake by not trying to score. If the guy with a poor arm throws a strike then so be it. Also, Cora should have called for a saftey squeeze with Toro. I was in St. Louis last month and the Padres successfully excuted two safety squeeze plays in a row. Just bunt the ball toward first or second. Not rocket science.

I think the big problem with bunting is fans think it’s really easy to do.  Just bunt the ball towards first or second?  Even the best bungees struggle with placement on occasion.  Saying “just bunt it to second” is like saying “just hit it off the wall.”  Most bunts towards second (the ideal place for a bunt) don’t get past the pitcher.  And that’s the whole goal - to get it past the pitcher.  Because if the pitcher does field it, he may have several options for an easy out…

[moonslav59]

32 minutes ago, notin said:

I think the big problem with bunting is fans think it’s really easy to do.  Just bunt the ball towards first or second?  Even the best bungees struggle with placement on occasion.  Saying “just bunt it to second” is like saying “just hit it off the wall.”  Most bunts towards second (the ideal place for a bunt) don’t get past the pitcher.  And that’s the whole goal - to get it past the pitcher.  Because if the pitcher does field it, he may have several options for an easy out…

It's not easy, but players used to learn and practice it, much more than they do now.

[notin]

19 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It's not easy, but players used to learn and practice it, much more than they do now.

How much did they used to practice it vs now?

If you discount attempts made by NL pitchers, is there really that much drop in bunting?

Also I think fans lump all bunts together.  There is a difference between sac bunting and bunting for a base hit.  Bunting to the 2b, for example, is more often done to get on base…

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

How much did they used to practice it vs now?

If you discount attempts made by NL pitchers, is there really that much drop in bunting?

Also I think fans lump all bunts together.  There is a difference between sac bunting and bunting for a base hit.  Bunting to the 2b, for example, is more often done to get on base…

Good point. 

I've always hated buntin, unless by pitchers, but it does keep defenses honest.

[Kimmi]

Losses like last night's loss are the toughest to take.  A gut punch.

While the losses all count the same, losing a close game in extra innings is still better than getting blown out by 10 runs.  Maybe it's not better for the fans' morale, but it's better in terms of the team's talent and ability moving forward.

[Tedballgame]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

It's not easy, but players used to learn and practice it, much more than they do now.

Apparently the Padres practice it and it can win games. It may not be easy but its easier than trying to hit a 95 mph fastball.

[moonslav59]

50 minutes ago, Tedballgame said:

Apparently the Padres practice it and it can win games. It may not be easy but its easier than trying to hit a 95 mph fastball.

I'm not sure about "easier," but with practice maybe a little easier.

It's not just getting the bunt down, but it has to be to the right place and not too hard or softly hit.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

It's not easy, but players used to learn and practice it, much more than they do now.

The inability to bunt is ridiculous and it's been this way for years throughout baseball.  I have no idea why they don't work on it more today.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

The inability to bunt is ridiculous and it's been this way for years throughout baseball.  I have no idea why they don't work on it more today.

It's out of style. No more "wasted ABs," just let everyone swing away and away and away.

[Bellhorn04]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It's out of style. No more "wasted ABs," just let everyone swing away and away and away.

Because the metrics showed that sacrifice bunts cost you more runs than they add.  Which makes perfect sense when you consider that you only have 3 outs and sacrificing hands 33% of those outs to the opponent.

[illinoisredsox]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Because the metrics showed that sacrifice bunts cost you more runs than they add.  Which makes perfect sense when you consider that you only have 3 outs and sacrificing hands 33% of those outs to the opponent.

Sure, in the early part of a game.  But what do the metrics say in the 8th, 9th or extras when you may only need to add 1 run?

Of course, bunting sorta requires the next guy to actually put the ball in play.

[cp176]

9 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Because the metrics showed that sacrifice bunts cost you more runs than they add.  Which makes perfect sense when you consider that you only have 3 outs and sacrificing hands 33% of those outs to the opponent.

There have been and always will be a time to use a bunt to move runners over as well as a bunt for a base hit.  What troubles me is that in today’s game there seems to be a plan laid and adhered to before a pitch is made.  You have to have a plan but spontaneity still is a good thing.  For instance, if the metrics say don’t challenge a fielders arm, the game is on the line maybe you do.  I absolutely believe in using all the information you can to plan but sometimes it is a good thing to just follow your gut.

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, cp176 said:

There have been and always will be a time to use a bunt to move runners over as well as a bunt for a base hit.  What troubles me is that in today’s game there seems to be a plan laid and adhered to before a pitch is made.  You have to have a plan but spontaneity still is a good thing.  For instance, if the metrics say don’t challenge a fielders arm, the game is on the line maybe you do.  I absolutely believe in using all the information you can to plan but sometimes it is a good thing to just follow your gut.

If you were going to give an example of an ideal time to sacrifice bunt, what would it be?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

25 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

If you were going to give an example of an ideal time to sacrifice bunt, what would it be?

1. extra innings, no outs, tied or trailing by a run, with your fastest Ghost runner on 2nd and Anthony on deck.

2. same scenario, bottom of the 9th 

3. scoreless playoff game, in the 5th or 6th frame, vs. a foe with a killer bullpen warming up.

 

[moonslav59]

14 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Because the metrics showed that sacrifice bunts cost you more runs than they add.  Which makes perfect sense when you consider that you only have 3 outs and sacrificing hands 33% of those outs to the opponent.

Yes, that is the main and just reason. I've never liked bunting, except that doing it enough to force the infield in has real value not measured by the metrics.

Players get more hits when the corner IF'ers are in.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

14 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Because the metrics showed that sacrifice bunts cost you more runs than they add.  Which makes perfect sense when you consider that you only have 3 outs and sacrificing hands 33% of those outs to the opponent.

While this is probably true why have I seen them try, and fail, so many times this season?  Bunting in certain situations such as the scenarios above.  So it's still important and should be worked on even if just a bit more than now.  .  

[cp176]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

1. extra innings, no outs, tied or trailing by a run, with your fastest Ghost runner on 2nd and Anthony on deck.

2. same scenario, bottom of the 9th 

3. scoreless playoff game, in the 5th or 6th frame, vs. a foe with a killer bullpen warming up.

 

I like these examples.  In general I would say,  when your team appears to not be producing runs in a very close game and you need to move a runner up to get into a position to win a game.  Common sense I’d say.  

[Bellhorn04]

10 minutes ago, cp176 said:

I like these examples.  In general I would say,  when your team appears to not be producing runs in a very close game and you need to move a runner up to get into a position to win a game.  Common sense I’d say.  

I think there are some very specific and limited situations where it makes sense, which the examples provided by 5 Gloves suggest.  So much depends on who's at the plate and who's up next.  Plus things like, if there's just a runner at first, and your best hitter is on deck, if you bunt the guy at first over, they'll probably intentionally your best hitter so you're taking the bat out of his hands.  Just a ton of situational stuff to consider.      

[cp176]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think there are some very specific and limited situations where it makes sense, which the examples provided by 5 Gloves suggest.  So much depends on who's at the plate and who's up next.  Plus things like, if there's just a runner at first, and your best hitter is on deck, if you bunt the guy at first over, they'll probably intentionally your best hitter so you're taking the bat out of his hands.  Just a ton of situational stuff to consider.      

Of course - There are many things that people have to think about in situational baseball.   I think that there are definitely people who discount some of the older (I guess) methods of getting the job done.  I’m ok with that.  I think that there is still a time and a place for everything.  

[mvp 78]

16 minutes ago, cp176 said:

Of course - There are many things that people have to think about in situational baseball.   I think that there are definitely people who discount some of the older (I guess) methods of getting the job done.  I’m ok with that.  I think that there is still a time and a place for everything.  

drag bunt - check

spit ball - check

spiking Machado - double check 

[Maxbialystock]

On 8/20/2025 at 8:39 AM, ocaladick said:

Bases loaded with nobody out and then 3 strikeouts? WTF! Tie the game in the 9th with our new 1st baseman - should have been a tremendous boost to the team's morale, but what happens in the 10th? Our closer is gone - not closing a game again, only prolonging it - so how about another run scoring opportunity situation in the bottom of the 10th? Good thing we have a bunch of people who can't even hit a sacrifice fly! Finally Anthony hits a fly in the 11th to score the tying run - but wait - the 3rd base coach is so scared, he holds the runner (sure could have used Hamilton as a pinch runner if only he was here).They suck - dump them all and bring up a AAA club - they can do as well. I am done with them - they are toast.

Famous last words.  

[moonslav59]

I kinda like toast.

[Bellhorn04]

This is what happens when you have a hot take that belongs on a game thread and start a new thread with it instead. 

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

This is what happens when you have a hot take that belongs on a game thread and start a new thread with it instead. 

The thread starter has been suspiciously absent from any further comments or retractions.

Man up, OCA!

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

On 8/24/2025 at 12:49 PM, moonslav59 said:

The thread starter has been suspiciously absent from any further comments or retractions.

Man up, OCA!

11 posts and 10 of them are negative and extremelty critical.

Clown poster who should be ignorned and dismissed.

[moonslav59]

22 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

11 posts and 10 of them are negative and extremelty critical.

Clown poster who should be ignorned and dismissed.

I don't mind negativity. I was in that mode for a few decades, but it would be nice to hear some positive statements from them, from time to time. Mostly, they disappear or post way less after wins and during winning stretches. That's not necessarily a bad thing