Question of the week: Was trading Devers the right call?

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I agree. I doubt they make this trade with zero return or just Bello & Tibbs.

I agree on the "pool" analogy, as well, but that increased pool ($20M for 2 years then $30M more for 6 more) will translate into tangible players, as long as JH doesn't go cheap, along the way (again.)

I'm hoping JH spends even more than the estimated $76M we may have below the tax line, this winter. I'd like to see him get just below the 1st tier, minimum, so about $95M to spend:

$30M SP

$18M Closer

$25M 1B 

$22M back-up Catcher plus extensions to Anthony & Mayer. (Take some from 1B, if we need more for extensions.)

Trade Duran or Abreu for a key piece (Maybe with prospects for Ryan.)

SP: Crochet, Cease, Ryan, Bello, Sandoval, Dobbins, Harrison, Fitts, Tolle & Early

RP Helsley, Whitlock, Slaten, Houck, Hicks, Murphy, Perales, Sandlin, Weissert, Alcara, Guerrero, Kelly, I Campbell

1. L Mayer 2B

2. R Bregman 3B

3. L Abreu RF/ R Romy DH 

4. L Anthony LF

5. R Story SS

6. L Yoshida DH/ R Refsnyder RF

7. R Hoskins 1B (L Casas/ S Toro)

8. R Narvaez C (_____?)

9. R Rafaela CF (R Jh Garcia?)

This looks damn good, to me.

I like most of this, but I really dont want to trade either Duran or Abreu right now.  Im more of a make it work guy.  I dont need Ryan. Id rather trade prospects for something lesser.  Regarding next year, keep Giolitto, right? Take him over Cease.  And do better than Hoskins.

So thats a lot Im changing about the specific players, but I dont want to focus on that, because we agree a lot on the most relevant parts of this discussion (why Devers was traded).

But why the F are you going for Hoskins? Id rather put Duran at 1B.

[jad]

Giving away your best hitter, All-star for nothing?  Hell no, except for those, of course, who drink the usual RS cool-aid of bad-mouthing employees they let go.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

But why the F are you going for Hoskins? Id rather put Duran at 1B.

Did you have fun with Renfroe, Duvall and O'Neill? You'll love Hoskins at Fenway.

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Did you have fun with Renfroe, Duvall and O'Neill? You'll love Hoskins at Fenway.

Maybe as a fall back. Id love Polar Bear more.

[Bellhorn04]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not sure the trade was made to be "won" with the returns. I think they viewed Devers as a problem and thought freeing up the money would allow them to replenish higher need areas over the next 8+ years.

That being said, I think all 4 of the return players show some sort of promise. Harrison probably has the highest hope of giving something very meaningful. Tibbs gives us some minor league depth (maybe 1B could help..) J Bello is promising but too far away to get hopes up. Hicks could be a force from the pen, but questions linger.

IMO, if and how we spend the money will be what makes or breaks this trade, and of course how Devers ages. We all saw how we failed to replenish the Betts money, as well as half  Prices's, Porcello's and others afterwards. If we follow that same path, it's hard to imagine this trade working well for us, unless Devers implodes.

You really know how to cover your bases.  Whatever happens you can look back at this post and point out where you were right. 😀

[Bellhorn04]

35 minutes ago, jad said:

Giving away your best hitter, All-star for nothing?  Hell no, except for those, of course, who drink the usual RS cool-aid of bad-mouthing employees they let go.

Raffy Devers is no Mookie Betts.  Raffy has a lot of issues, he really does.  Not showing up for the 1B workouts with Will Clark might have an explanation, but as far as I can tell from what was reported, Devers didn't actually tell them anything, he just didn't show up.  So it's not just the Red Sox having communication problems with him. 

[dgalehouse]

People have their own reasons for liking or disliking a player. It's not always about performance. No matter what happens, Devers will have his supporters and his detractors. I personally think the team will miss his hitting, but is really better off without him,  all things considered. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

I like most of this, but I really dont want to trade either Duran or Abreu right now.  Im more of a make it work guy.  I dont need Ryan. Id rather trade prospects for something lesser.  Regarding next year, keep Giolitto, right? Take him over Cease.  And do better than Hoskins.

So thats a lot Im changing about the specific players, but I dont want to focus on that, because we agree a lot on the most relevant parts of this discussion (why Devers was traded).

But why the F are you going for Hoskins? Id rather put Duran at 1B.

I just threw Hoskins out there, but would  be fine with someone better, like Alonso.

I don't see how we "make it work" without constantly having a deserving player on the bench and areas of need going unaddressed or filled by minor deadline deals like for Urias and Lucas Simms types. Maybe, we get lucky with a Nate or Schwarber type deal, but counting on that is asking for a letdown.

We have 4 slots with OF & DH. Here is who we need to be playing:

vs RHPs: Abreu, Duran, Rafaela, Anthony, Yoshida and Campbell at some point. (Casas at DH in '26) That's easily 5 and maybe 6 players for 4 slots.

vs LHPs: Refsnyder, Rafaela, Anthony, Duran and Romy if not at 1B. (Garcia before long. '26?) That's 5 for 4 slots, but eventually 6 w Jh Garcia. (If we add a 1Bman, Romy is a must at DH vs L.)

If we had no weak areas, sure, make it work somehow, but we have several weak areas, and I'm not trading Rafaela. Yoshida is untradeable. A Refsnyder trade would only affect one of these lists, and it's the shorter list.

It's not at all about my dislike for Duran or Abreu. I really like them both, a lot. I happen to like Anthony and Rafaela more and recognize that keeping some sort of Yoshida/ Romy-Ref platoon at DH makes more sense.

In short, Duran and Abreu would be more valuable to a few other teams than to us, and that is often the impetuous for a trade.

[drewski6]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I just threw Hoskins out there, but would  be fine with someone better, like Alonso.

I don't see how we "make it work" without constantly having a deserving player on the bench and areas of need going unaddressed or filled by minor deadline deals like for Urias and Lucas Simms types. Maybe, we get lucky with a Nate or Schwarber type deal, but counting on that is asking for a letdown.

We have 4 slots with OF & DH. Here is who we need to be playing:

vs RHPs: Abreu, Duran, Rafaela, Anthony, Yoshida and Campbell at some point. (Casas at DH in '26) That's easily 5 and maybe 6 players for 4 slots.

vs LHPs: Refsnyder, Rafaela, Anthony, Duran and Romy if not at 1B. (Garcia before long. '26?) That's 5 for 4 slots, but eventually 6 w Jh Garcia. (If we add a 1Bman, Romy is a must at DH vs L.)

If we had no weak areas, sure, make it work somehow, but we have several weak areas, and I'm not trading Rafaela. Yoshida is untradeable. A Refsnyder trade would only affect one of these lists, and it's the shorter list.

It's not at all about my dislike for Duran or Abreu. I really like them both, a lot. I happen to like Anthony and Rafaela more and recognize that keeping some sort of Yoshida/ Romy-Ref platoon at DH makes more sense.

In short, Duran and Abreu would be more valuable to a few other teams than to us, and that is often the impetuous for a trade.

Hard disagree on Duran.  But you are including Campbell.  You are including Yoshida. You are for some reason assuming Romy wont play the infield when he mostly plays the infield.  Lets not make 2025 worse for potential future problems.

Duran is our leader, our energy, our enforcer, our fight, our leadoff hitter.  Abreu is a GG who hits well against righties, our #5 hitter most nights. These are important positions, and I think the positions they currently occupy are more valuable than a pitcher. For Duran, any pitcher. For Abreu, I could maybe trade him for a very good starter, but Id rather not.

Also depth.

You need 3 starters for the playoffs.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

Hard disagree on Duran.  But you are including Campbell.  You are including Yoshida. You are for some reason assuming Romy wont play the infield when he mostly plays the infield.  Lets not make 2025 worse for potential future problems.

Duran is our leader, our energy, our enforcer, our fight, our leadoff hitter.  Abreu is a GG who hits well against righties, our #5 hitter most nights. These are important positions, and I think the positions they currently occupy are more valuable than a pitcher. For Duran, any pitcher. For Abreu, I could maybe trade him for a very good starter, but Id rather not.

Also depth.

You need 3 starters for the playoffs.

When Bregman returns, there will be no Toro at 3B, but yes, a Toro-Romy platoon at 1B takes him out of the DH mix, and allows Ref to fill it.

I was thinking we bot assumed we'd be adding a 1Bman. If we don't then subtract Romy and we still have 5 for 4 slots, not counting Campbell, who may best be suited for CF. If Campbell ends up at 1B (or Yoshida) then Romy is back into the DH mix.

We have awesome depth, except at C, 3B and maybe 2B, which should be fixed upon Bregman's return.

Upgrading higher need areas with some of that depth makes very good sense to me.

I think we need 4 starters for the playoffs. As of now, it looks like we do, but you know how that goes. In 2 weeks we might need 2. (I am not for trading top prospects for a rental SP, RP or 1Bman.)

[moonslav59]

54 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

You really know how to cover your bases.  Whatever happens you can look back at this post and point out where you were right. 😀

I can be wishy washy as I try to present both sides to issues, but I readily admit when I'm wrong, which is often, especially when you consider how many opinions I state.

If we don't spend to the tax line, the trade will be bad, unless we strike gold with less spending, I guess.

If we spend the money but swing and miss, we can say the trade sucked, unless Devers under performs, too.

I'm not sure I'm presenting an opinion that can never be viewed as wrong.

 

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

When Bregman returns, there will be no Toro at 3B, but yes, a Toro-Romy platoon at 1B takes him out of the DH mix, and allows Ref to fill it.

I was thinking we bot assumed we'd be adding a 1Bman. If we don't then subtract Romy and we still have 5 for 4 slots, not counting Campbell, who may best be suited for CF. If Campbell ends up at 1B (or Yoshida) then Romy is back into the DH mix.

We have awesome depth, except at C, 3B and maybe 2B, which should be fixed upon Bregman's return.

Upgrading higher need areas with some of that depth makes very good sense to me.

I think we need 4 starters for the playoffs. As of now, it looks like we do, but you know how that goes. In 2 weeks we might need 2. (I am not for trading top prospects for a rental SP, RP or 1Bman.)

Duran is our energy leader, our clubhouse leader, our weight room leader, our intimidator, our distractor, our get in your head guy, our sh*t talker, our only guy who does (and should) scare the opposing team. He gives fight me eyes. He shouts expletives. Hes ready to throw down.  Who one this team, if not Duran, would ever even dream of charging the mound. This stuff matters , and it matters even more in the playoffs.

Without him, we are a team of sawfties. We dont have a Mike Napoli walking down the street with a cigarette in his mouth. 

Put Duran at 1b before you go trade for one. Hes a mixed bag in the outfield anyways.  And we need his energy, his lift, his toughness.  This dude once put a gun to his own head, he'll sure as s*** put one to yours. Hes loco. Hes scary. He gets in opponents heads (whether that be acting like a punk or on the basepaths). There is an element of warfare to this. You want those dudes on your side.  You dont give away our only position player who will fight because you have a good fourth OF who could step in.

Too much overthinking, not enough fight.  Papelbons intimidation factor helped us , that stuff is important.  We just traded Devers because it didnt really feel like he had his teammates back.  Trading Duran completely undoes the benefit from that.  If Im Roman Anthony, Im less scared they are going to throw at my head if Duran is on second.  Cuz hell dropkick a fool.

[drewski6]

If we're in the world series, and Im Cora, Im literally blasting AC/DC while I slap Duran repeatedly in the fact while I scream "get angry"

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

You really know how to cover your bases.  Whatever happens you can look back at this post and point out where you were right. 😀

I dont think people are score-keeping here that badly (I personally cannot stand that stuff, people running around pounding their chests saying they were right...Or people using other posters previous posts (I mean going way back in time) against them to make a point)

I try my best not to do it

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Did you have fun with Renfroe, Duvall and O'Neill? You'll love Hoskins at Fenway.

They're all the same guy. In their previous jobs as stunt men, each played the husband on Bewitched.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

2 hours ago, jad said:

Giving away your best hitter, All-star for nothing?  Hell no, except for those, of course, who drink the usual RS cool-aid of bad-mouthing employees they let go.

Devers was pinched hit for last night.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

4 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

They're all the same guy. In their previous jobs as stunt men, each played the husband on Bewitched.

A bunch of Dicks.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

Duran is our energy leader, our clubhouse leader, our weight room leader, our intimidator, our distractor, our get in your head guy, our sh*t talker, our only guy who does (and should) scare the opposing team. He gives fight me eyes. He shouts expletives. Hes ready to throw down.  Who one this team, if not Duran, would ever even dream of charging the mound. This stuff matters , and it matters even more in the playoffs.

Without him, we are a team of sawfties. We dont have a Mike Napoli walking down the street with a cigarette in his mouth. 

Put Duran at 1b before you go trade for one. Hes a mixed bag in the outfield anyways.  And we need his energy, his lift, his toughness.  This dude once put a gun to his own head, he'll sure as s*** put one to yours. Hes loco. Hes scary. He gets in opponents heads (whether that be acting like a punk or on the basepaths). There is an element of warfare to this. You want those dudes on your side.  You dont give away our only position player who will fight because you have a good fourth OF who could step in.

Too much overthinking, not enough fight.  Papelbons intimidation factor helped us , that stuff is important.  We just traded Devers because it didnt really feel like he had his teammates back.  Trading Duran completely undoes the benefit from that.  If Im Roman Anthony, Im less scared they are going to throw at my head if Duran is on second.  Cuz hell dropkick a fool.

Duran does add a wide range of pluses and energy to the team. He's a decent defender, too.

There were two incidents that kinda bothered me, but not enough to say "trade him" because of them:

1. The no Covid shot and missing a key TOR series in 2020.

2. The slur and 1 game suspension.

He can also be up and down and has stated he's had past issues with mental health that makes me somewhat worried, but in no way do I think he will decline more than the norm for his age. He turns 29 in a couple months and has 3 more years of control. That brings him to the perfect age to possibly say good bye. He will be 31 in 2028 and will turn 32 in September of his last year of control.

Everything screams to keep him and trade Abreu, instead but Abreu is a GG RF'er who plays half his games in Fenway. He doesn't even start his arb years until 2027. He has more power and more upside, IMO. Ideally, we keep both and Rafaela, but do we trade Anthony? I think not, even if it's for the next Crochet,

[Bellhorn04]

2 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Duran is our energy leader, our clubhouse leader, our weight room leader, our intimidator, our distractor, our get in your head guy, our sh*t talker, our only guy who does (and should) scare the opposing team. He gives fight me eyes. He shouts expletives. Hes ready to throw down.  Who one this team, if not Duran, would ever even dream of charging the mound. This stuff matters , and it matters even more in the playoffs.

Without him, we are a team of sawfties. We dont have a Mike Napoli walking down the street with a cigarette in his mouth. 

Put Duran at 1b before you go trade for one. Hes a mixed bag in the outfield anyways.  And we need his energy, his lift, his toughness.  This dude once put a gun to his own head, he'll sure as s*** put one to yours. Hes loco. Hes scary. He gets in opponents heads (whether that be acting like a punk or on the basepaths). There is an element of warfare to this. You want those dudes on your side.  You dont give away our only position player who will fight because you have a good fourth OF who could step in.

Too much overthinking, not enough fight.  Papelbons intimidation factor helped us , that stuff is important.  We just traded Devers because it didnt really feel like he had his teammates back.  Trading Duran completely undoes the benefit from that.  If Im Roman Anthony, Im less scared they are going to throw at my head if Duran is on second.  Cuz hell dropkick a fool.

He's Martin Riggs in a baseball uniform! 😀

[jad]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Raffy Devers is no Mookie Betts.  Raffy has a lot of issues, he really does.  Not showing up for the 1B workouts with Will Clark might have an explanation, but as far as I can tell from what was reported, Devers didn't actually tell them anything, he just didn't show up.  So it's not just the Red Sox having communication problems with him. 

Well  yes, NO one is Mookie!   But all the negative comments I've read about RD come either from the front office, or their yes-men (will fleming, for example).  I wouldn't believe Breslow if he told me the sun will rise tomorrow.

[mvp 78]

14 hours ago, drewski6 said:

I dont think people are score-keeping here that badly (I personally cannot stand that stuff, people running around pounding their chests saying they were right...Or people using other posters previous posts (I mean going way back in time) against them to make a point)

I try my best not to do it

People do it from time to time on here, but posters aren't too bad about it. 

I would never do it anyway. Hardly ever. Right, bell? 

[drewski6]

13 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Duran does add a wide range of pluses and energy to the team. He's a decent defender, too.

There were two incidents that kinda bothered me, but not enough to say "trade him" because of them:

1. The no Covid shot and missing a key TOR series in 2020.

2. The slur and 1 game suspension.

He can also be up and down and has stated he's had past issues with mental health that makes me somewhat worried, but in no way do I think he will decline more than the norm for his age. He turns 29 in a couple months and has 3 more years of control. That brings him to the perfect age to possibly say good bye. He will be 31 in 2028 and will turn 32 in September of his last year of control.

Everything screams to keep him and trade Abreu, instead but Abreu is a GG RF'er who plays half his games in Fenway. He doesn't even start his arb years until 2027. He has more power and more upside, IMO. Ideally, we keep both and Rafaela, but do we trade Anthony? I think not, even if it's for the next Crochet,

Remember yesterday when you were jokingly accused of covering your bases, and you were like maybe, but not intentionally - Im just trying to see things from all sides

In that vein: I will continue to alternate between trade Duran, trade Abreu, trade neither

BTW Grissom is absolutely raking in AAA right now, and he and KC are starting to look a lot alike.  Im wondering if KC for Joe Ryan is the move.

[drewski6]

15 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

A bunch of Dicks.

Bunch of  Dick Fitts!

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Remember yesterday when you were jokingly accused of covering your bases, and you were like maybe, but not intentionally - Im just trying to see things from all sides

In that vein: I will continue to alternate between trade Duran, trade Abreu, trade neither

BTW Grissom is absolutely raking in AAA right now, and he and KC are starting to look a lot alike.  Im wondering if KC for Joe Ryan is the move.

I think they need to trade SOMEBODY in the OF/DH just because the roster doesn't make a lot of sense right now. I don't really have a preference between Abreu and Duran. If Anthony can stick in RF, it makes the loss of Abreu an easier pill to swallow. I'd move whoever brings me the better return. 

[drewski6]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think they need to trade SOMEBODY in the OF/DH just because the roster doesn't make a lot of sense right now. I don't really have a preference between Abreu and Duran. If Anthony can stick in RF, it makes the loss of Abreu an easier pill to swallow. I'd move whoever brings me the better return. 

But 6 OF/DH becomes a lot easier to juggle September onward.  Theres a lot more pinch hitting - matchup hunting, defensive subbing, manufacturing in the playoffs. And rosters expand in September.

I think they can live with it until then.

I agree its outside the box and non ideal.  BUt my fear is that this team could be really good if you trade KC for Ryan AND its not like its a just this year window either.

I agree that Anthony makes trading Abreu easier to swallow.  But KC struggling at 2b defensively, getting turned into a 1b essentially, with casas coming back next year (maybe) and Vaughn Grissom entering the picture at 1b, also Toro and Romy, and I wouldnt even be adverse to letting some OF overflow handle some 1b (which is done a lot).

I think that we are stronger with all 6 OF'ers especially in the playoffs, where your bench players get used every game so its okay to start the game with weapons on the bench.

Let Ref walk after this year, then you have 4 OFers next year. Duran, ANthony, Abreu, Cedanne, Yoshida DH. You have Ryan and Crochet locked up (if you flip KC for Ryan).  

[jad]

18 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Raffy Devers is no Mookie Betts.  Raffy has a lot of issues, he really does.  Not showing up for the 1B workouts with Will Clark might have an explanation, but as far as I can tell from what was reported, Devers didn't actually tell them anything, he just didn't show up.  So it's not just the Red Sox having communication problems with him. 

Not showing up for workout is a myth perpetuated by the RS management,  Here's what Will Clark says:https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/sf-giants-will-clark-nsfw-rant-red-sox-broadcaster-20764770.php?link_source=ta_first_comment&taid=68700dd32d6a270001fac245&fbclid=IwY2xjawLeAL9leHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFUd0hVVE16TENVUlhiOHBqAR6buJrjEXJjj9Jb59qMKmcGwAyln-uX9QBUV3KEE0krNCe62dOzoCGddwfriw_aem_yaShXYNS060_JV6E6mciWg

[Duran Is The Man]

18 hours ago, jad said:

Giving away your best hitter, All-star for nothing?  Hell no, except for those, of course, who drink the usual RS cool-aid of bad-mouthing employees they let go.

 he was/is a selfish, me-first POS and i don't blame them for trading him. i just wish they had gotten something for him. outside of the occasional blind squirrel/acorn deal like Narvaez, the Sox FO is really really bad at making trades.

[mvp 78]

34 minutes ago, jad said:

Not showing up for workout is a myth perpetuated by the RS management,  Here's what Will Clark says:https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/sf-giants-will-clark-nsfw-rant-red-sox-broadcaster-20764770.php?link_source=ta_first_comment&taid=68700dd32d6a270001fac245&fbclid=IwY2xjawLeAL9leHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFUd0hVVE16TENVUlhiOHBqAR6buJrjEXJjj9Jb59qMKmcGwAyln-uX9QBUV3KEE0krNCe62dOzoCGddwfriw_aem_yaShXYNS060_JV6E6mciWg

 

Clark created a pretty big PR fiasco for the Giants and then backtracked on what he told Flemming. Now he's pissed at Flemming. Clark has always been a dumb blowhard. Flemming just carries water for the FO. Both Wills just need to shut the hell up IMO. 

[Kimmi]

On 7/9/2025 at 9:19 AM, Hitch said:

He was asked the question on Devers and how the players view him post trade. It's not weird to answer these questions. As much as you and I might like this conversation to die down, it isn't, and people will continue asking questions around it. People will give answers. Such is the way of the world,

It would be weird if he kept producing blogs out of nowhere about it. But that isn't happening. 

People still bring up the Mookie trade every other week.  LOL

[Kimmi]

On 7/9/2025 at 9:32 AM, Nick said:

Yes, and Hell yes.

100%.

It's a lot easier to not miss Devers when the team is on a high like they are, but even if the Sox were still struggling, Devers needed to go.  I am glad Breslow prioritized being a good teammate and other intangibles over the high-powered bat.