Old is new again - I remodeled the offseason blueprint as the trade deadline blueprint

[jad]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Maybe google it?

I remember when it happened. There was a lot of body language, but of course, Cora covered for his player and denied it was about dogging it.

While we may not be hearing any players or coaches giving any specifics on clubhouse issues, I find it odd that I have not heard a single player come out and praise Devers for being a great teammate or missing his dugout and clubhouse presence. Sure, they miss his bat, as I do, too.

Who know, maybe Cora was right, and maybe Devers was fine in the clubhouse. I never felt there was an issue before, this year, so I could be wrong. It's hard to prove anything based on body language, things left unsaid and Cora defending his players as usual.

Then again, nor have there been any players come out and repeat the management/sportswriter myths that he was a bad team-mate.

[curbsidecorgi67]

5 hours ago, Nick said:

What type of return can we expect for following?

Bregman

Duran

Chapman

Buehler

Giolito

Are we getting in return middle of the pack starters, relievers and position players.

Do we parade all of our young starters and find out what we have?

I'm thinking of Kyle Harrison, Hunter Dobbins, Richard Fitts, etc. Let's see what we have going into 2026.

What team can 'go for it' with the additions of Bregman, Duran and Chapman? What young, established starting pitcher can we get?

 

The rentals will probably net prospects who may or may not pan out. Maybe Bregman could get a can't miss type of guy.

Duran is very different -- star ability, team control, and CF is a scarce position on the open market. I would probably want an MLB ready, can't miss, front-line SP prospect at minimum. Ideally, it would even be someone who had success in a cup of coffee debut. 

[curbsidecorgi67]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I really hate buying at the deadline. It's expensive, in terms of overpaying for 2 month rentals.

I do think Brez made a very strong effort to not have to buy at this deadline. He built up a decent rotation depth to at least 10 men deep, I think the statement "waiting until it's fruitless" was more true of Bloom & Co. Brez made a solid attempt, last winter, and he realizes it will be a great overpay to get a pitcher, now.

I'd rather get a Crochet in the winter than a guy Like Kikuchi from 2024, who actually did very well, after the trade to HOU. The Astros gave up a lot, and then lost him after 2 months.

I think there's 2 different types of "buying" at the deadline. Like there's buying to get in, and there's buying to get it all in.

The Sox would be in the first bucket, where it might make sense to trade a low minors prospect for a rental at a black hole position in order to just make the playoffs.

Then you have the bucket for a team like the Phillies, where their window is closing so they don't mind trading a big-time prospect for a rental if it helps them get the trophy. 

[moonslav59]

30 minutes ago, curbsidecorgi67 said:

I think there's 2 different types of "buying" at the deadline. Like there's buying to get in, and there's buying to get it all in.

The Sox would be in the first bucket, where it might make sense to trade a low minors prospect for a rental at a black hole position in order to just make the playoffs.

Then you have the bucket for a team like the Phillies, where their window is closing so they don't mind trading a big-time prospect for a rental if it helps them get the trophy. 

I'm all for trades like Beeks for Nate and Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber. I was kinda hopeful the Luis Garcia or Lucas sims trades would work, but that was a much smaller scale idea.

We have some duplicated values and blocked players and prospects.

I'm against overpaying at the deadline, but there are some deals that can get done.

Plan 1: capitalize on the overpaying for good talent by trading Duran or Abreu, either in a three way deal, or use the prospect haul to then overpay for a solid #2 or 3 SP'er (by adding a mid level couple prospects.)

Plan 2: just trade guys like Romero, Bleis, Cespedes and maybe some of our prospect pitchers for a solid SP'er. I guess I might part with Arias or Jh Garcia, but that seems too high for a rental.

Plan 3: Have enough faith in Arias, Romero and others and trade Campbell. Have faith in Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, Campbell and Jh Garcia in the OF and trade Anthony.

(No way I trade Mayer.)

It's rare that a team trades for a rental, then extends him, but maybe that is something else we could do.

[Hitch]

14 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Maybe google it?

I remember when it happened. There was a lot of body language, but of course, Cora covered for his player and denied it was about dogging it.

While we may not be hearing any players or coaches giving any specifics on clubhouse issues, I find it odd that I have not heard a single player come out and praise Devers for being a great teammate or missing his dugout and clubhouse presence. Sure, they miss his bat, as I do, too.

Who know, maybe Cora was right, and maybe Devers was fine in the clubhouse. I never felt there was an issue before, this year, so I could be wrong. It's hard to prove anything based on body language, things left unsaid and Cora defending his players as usual.

I did. I only found things that doesn't really back this up one way or another. 

According to almost all reports. Cora was happy enough for this to go through, so I don't doubt friction had grown between them to the point trust had been broken. Not sure on this eye roll thing though, especially as Cora came straight out and said it was a groin issue.

[Bellhorn04]

13 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I did. I only found things that doesn't really back this up one way or another. 

According to almost all reports. Cora was happy enough for this to go through, so I don't doubt friction had grown between them to the point trust had been broken. Not sure on this eye roll thing though, especially as Cora came straight out and said it was a groin issue.

We'll never know, but it's not implausible that Cora just decided he didn't want to make a bad situation worse.  If the Sox were already deep in discussions about trading Devers, having a fresh new controversy about lack of hustle would not be ideal.

[mvp 78]

55 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We'll never know, but it's not implausible that Cora just decided he didn't want to make a bad situation worse.  If the Sox were already deep in discussions about trading Devers, having a fresh new controversy about lack of hustle would not be ideal.

I think Cora was fine with the trade because he realized the situation was no longer solvable (i.e. the problems between Raffy and FO). A trade was going to happen at some point so may as well trade him now even if there were no locker room issues. 

[Nick]

It still feels like we're at the beginning of a rebuild with our three amigos plus Narvaez the starting point. Obviously the big dog is Crochet.

You need a lock down bullpen for 7, 8, 9th innings. Buehler was big disappointment.

There are just too many teams in the mix for the playoffs. I don't care about playoffs anymore. We're .500 team. 

I care that we figure out what we have and go with it. We can't just continue to play Russian roulette with our lineup.

[jad]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier just to go watch minor league line-ups in Worcester or Portland?

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, jad said:

Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier just to go watch minor league line-ups in Worcester or Portland?

You can always change the channel on the MLB app. 🫠

[moonslav59]

9 hours ago, Nick said:

It still feels like we're at the beginning of a rebuild with our three amigos plus Narvaez the starting point. Obviously the big dog is Crochet.

You need a lock down bullpen for 7, 8, 9th innings. Buehler was big disappointment.

There are just too many teams in the mix for the playoffs. I don't care about playoffs anymore. We're .500 team. 

I care that we figure out what we have and go with it. We can't just continue to play Russian roulette with our lineup.

I think we have an identifiable core of players that Brez, Cora & Co. all agree on:

(Players in parenthesis are not set at these positions)

C: Narvaez

1B: _____ (Campbell, Casas, Toro/Romy)

2B: Mayer or Story

SS: Story or Mayer

3B: Bregman (I think we look to rework his contract)

LF: Anthony (not 100% certain, here, maybe Duran or Garcia)

CF: Rafaela (Campbell?)

RF: ______ (Abreu, Garcia)

DH: ______ (Yoshida-Refsnyder/Romy or Yoshida-Duran/Casas)

The pitching core is a short list:

Crochet, Sandoval, Bello, Dobbins (Crawford, Houck, Fitts)

Slaten, Whitlock (_____, ______, _______, ______)

[Nick]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think we have an identifiable core of players that Brez, Cora & Co. all agree on:

(Players in parenthesis are not set at these positions)

C: Narvaez

1B: _____ (Campbell, Casas, Toro/Romy)

2B: Mayer or Story

SS: Story or Mayer

3B: Bregman (I think we look to rework his contract)

LF: Anthony (not 100% certain, here, maybe Duran or Garcia)

CF: Rafaela (Campbell?)

RF: ______ (Abreu, Garcia)

DH: ______ (Yoshida-Refsnyder/Romy or Yoshida-Duran/Casas)

The pitching core is a short list:

Crochet, Sandoval, Bello, Dobbins (Crawford, Houck, Fitts)

Slaten, Whitlock (_____, ______, _______, ______)

I am just tired of watching this team finding a new way to lose each time out.

 

[jad]

8 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

You can always change the channel on the MLB app. 🫠

true enough,  And I do that, generally to watch LAD, SD, or SF, where all my favorite players now play!

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Nick said:

I am just tired of watching this team finding a new way to lose each time out.

 

We all share in this feeling. Maybe, I'm being a homer by thinking we have more "keepers" than we should, but I do think we have a decent core.

We also have some serious holes to fill.

[curbsidecorgi67]

On 6/24/2025 at 9:30 PM, moonslav59 said:

I'm all for trades like Beeks for Nate and Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber. I was kinda hopeful the Luis Garcia or Lucas sims trades would work, but that was a much smaller scale idea.

We have some duplicated values and blocked players and prospects.

I'm against overpaying at the deadline, but there are some deals that can get done.

Plan 1: capitalize on the overpaying for good talent by trading Duran or Abreu, either in a three way deal, or use the prospect haul to then overpay for a solid #2 or 3 SP'er (by adding a mid level couple prospects.)

Plan 2: just trade guys like Romero, Bleis, Cespedes and maybe some of our prospect pitchers for a solid SP'er. I guess I might part with Arias or Jh Garcia, but that seems too high for a rental.

Plan 3: Have enough faith in Arias, Romero and others and trade Campbell. Have faith in Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, Campbell and Jh Garcia in the OF and trade Anthony.

(No way I trade Mayer.)

It's rare that a team trades for a rental, then extends him, but maybe that is something else we could do.

Jesus. Plan 3 is insane, dude.

Plan 2 would make sense to me.

[curbsidecorgi67]

18 hours ago, Nick said:

 

I care that we figure out what we have and go with it. We can't just continue to play Russian roulette with our lineup.

I don't agree with this. There are significant questions that need to be answered about several key players.

• Was Duran's elite defense in CF a fluke?
• Can Rafaela hit at a league average clip?
• Is there any chance Abreu can learn to hit lefties?
• Can Kristian Campbell play anywhere in the field?
• Has Narvaez' hot bat this year been a fluke, is he going to struggle against righties?
• Is Bello actually breaking out as a front-line SP?

All of those questions could go either way. I think you need to be patient and let guys compete for roles right now.

[Hitch]

On 6/25/2025 at 4:29 AM, curbsidecorgi67 said:

I think there's 2 different types of "buying" at the deadline. Like there's buying to get in, and there's buying to get it all in.

The Sox would be in the first bucket, where it might make sense to trade a low minors prospect for a rental at a black hole position in order to just make the playoffs.

Then you have the bucket for a team like the Phillies, where their window is closing so they don't mind trading a big-time prospect for a rental if it helps them get the trophy. 

I think we're actually in a 3rd spot - 

Trading to buy for next year. This year is done, they aren't good or consistent enough and we have some very interesting pieces for teams. Add to that, short of trading Duran AND Abreu and going out and signing Tucker, there's little on free agent market out there to help us next year. 

So hopefully, we have courage (because I think it will piss a lot of fans off) to sell our best pieces available for players that can help us next year. I don't mind getting older either because we could do with some veteran leadership to say the least. 

We've got the exciting youth, we need the pieces around them now. 

[Bellhorn04]

4 hours ago, curbsidecorgi67 said:

Jesus. Plan 3 is insane, dude.

Plan 2 would make sense to me.

moon is open to just about anything.  He would trade family members and pets if there was any hope it would improve the Sox.  So trading Anthony and Campbell is nothing to him. 😀 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

moon is open to just about anything.  He would trade family members and pets if there was any hope it would improve the Sox.  So trading Anthony and Campbell is nothing to him. 😀 

LMAO.

I'd really prefer to keep all the young talent, but some appears to be blocked or log jammed. Someone needs to decide who is the better ones to keep and part with.

We have areas of great need and areas of abundant talent: do the math.

I draw the line at pets.

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

LMAO.

I'd really prefer to keep all the young talent, but some appears to be blocked or log jammed. Someone needs to decide who is the better ones to keep and part with.

We have areas of great need and areas of abundant talent: do the math.

I draw the line at pets.

With all the injuries this team sees, I wouldn't be so set on "abundance" especially after how light the system looks offensively. Aside from Jhostynxon and Arias, there aren't any guys that are really super exciting right now. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

With all the injuries this team sees, I wouldn't be so set on "abundance" especially after how light the system looks offensively. Aside from Jhostynxon and Arias, there aren't any guys that are really super exciting right now. 

I'm not saying the Big Three won't be All-Star caliber big leaguers someday, but there is something to be said regarding the patience needed for most prospects drafted out of high school like Mayer and Anthony, or one year of college like Campbell.

Players who spend four seasons at D1 schools almost always began pro careers more polished with more high level experience than prep players. 

A good example of this is Reds shortstop Matt McLain, the 5th shortstop chosen in the 2021 draft, after high schoolers Mayer, Jordan Lawler, Brady House and Kahlil Watson. McLain gained four years experience at UCLA and is already a solid major leaguer. The others are still learning.

Before Fred Lynn won AL MVP as a rookie in 1975, Red Sox fans barely heard of him -- except for a potent cup of coffee the previous September. All the hype (minus modern multi-media oversaturation, obviously) was on Jim Rice, the longball legend who never lifted a weight.

But Lynn spent four years in a great baseball program at USC, while Rice was drafted out of high school. Rice made the Hall of Fame for his bat, but Lynn was always a better all-around ballplayer.

 

[notin]

On 6/25/2025 at 7:46 AM, mvp 78 said:

I think Cora was fine with the trade because he realized the situation was no longer solvable (i.e. the problems between Raffy and FO). A trade was going to happen at some point so may as well trade him now even if there were no locker room issues. 

Cora bailed on the entire situation at the word go…

[notin]

44 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I'm not saying the Big Three won't be All-Star caliber big leaguers someday, but there is something to be said regarding the patience needed for most prospects drafted out of high school like Mayer and Anthony, or one year of college like Campbell.

Players who spend four seasons at D1 schools almost always began pro careers more polished with more high level experience than prep players. 

A good example of this is Reds shortstop Matt McLain, the 5th shortstop chosen in the 2021 draft, after high schoolers Mayer, Jordan Lawler, Brady House and Kahlil Watson. McLain gained four years experience at UCLA and is already a solid major leaguer. The others are still learning.

Before Fred Lynn won AL MVP as a rookie in 1975, Red Sox fans barely heard of him -- except for a potent cup of coffee the previous September. All the hype (minus modern multi-media oversaturation, obviously) was on Jim Rice, the longball legend who never lifted a weight.

But Lynn spent four years in a great baseball program at USC, while Rice was drafted out of high school. Rice made the Hall of Fame for his bat, but Lynn was always a better all-around ballplayer.

 

McLain has a polished .631 OPS / 70 OPS+ this year.  Mayer has a .690 OPS / 89 OPS+, but it’s very unpolished.

The kids are fine.  The Sox already white-flagged the season.  Bring up Campbell, Harrison and the Password.  Sell off Duran, Chapman, Wilson and maybe Refsnyder.  And maybe fire Cora and look forward to 2026…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

McLain has a polished .631 OPS / 70 OPS+ this year.  Mayer has a .690 OPS / 89 OPS+, but it’s very unpolished.

The kids are fine.  The Sox already white-flagged the season.  Bring up Campbell, Harrison and the Password.  Sell off Duran, Chapman, Wilson and maybe Refsnyder.  And maybe fire Cora and look forward to 2026…

Never said they weren't. I'm all for bringing them up and getting them experience now, while it doesn't matter.

But since you're in one of your stats-citing moods to refute posts, McLain posted 3.6 WAR in '23 at age 23 and finished 5th in ROY voting -- all in basically half a season (89 games, .290 BA, .864 OPS). He missed all of last year from shoulder surgery.

[notin]

11 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Never said they weren't. I'm all for bringing them up and getting them experience now, while it doesn't matter.

But since you're in one of your stats-citing moods to refute posts, McLain posted 3.6 WAR in '23 at age 23 and finished 5th in ROY voting -- all in basically half a season (89 games, .290 BA, .864 OPS). He missed all of last year from shoulder surgery.

I’m not worried about Mayer.  He’s been slow adjusting but doing well.  His biggest obstacle will be Cora benching him against LHP during a lost season…

[Bellhorn04]

38 minutes ago, notin said:

Cora bailed on the entire situation at the word go…

How's that?  He did get Devers to accept moving to DH.  It was when Casas went down that things got really messy...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, notin said:

I’m not worried about Mayer.  He’s been slow adjusting but doing well.  His biggest obstacle will be Cora benching him against LHP during a lost season…

In the handful of Spring Training games Mayer played second base, he was by far better than any human Boston has put out there since.

If Bregman returns completely healed (like no one over 30 ever does from any injury), then the Red Sox should have their best infield of the season... as long as they settle on an average actual 1B who knows when not to go for grounders to his right, and which direction to hold his glove when handling throws above and below the belt...

(that would be down and up -- something the Sox should be used to by now)

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

With all the injuries this team sees, I wouldn't be so set on "abundance" especially after how light the system looks offensively. Aside from Jhostynxon and Arias, there aren't any guys that are really super exciting right now. 

We need 4, maybe 5 OF'ers, and maybe Refsnyder comes back, next year as a bridge to Garcia or Bleis. We have Duran, Rafeala, Abreu, Anthony, Campbell, Garcia and maybe count Refsnyder and Yoshida. That's 1-2 more than we need, and IMO, we could be fine after taking away any name on this list. There are 6 players plus Ref & Masa. That is abundance to the point of being wasteful, when you have such great needs in other areas. Anthony is the last of these I'd trade, but he'd also bring back the most.

The infield is more complex and sketchy. We are not sure Campbell can play any infield position well, including 1B. Casas is always a concern. I'm not sold on Toro-Romy as our future 1Bmen, if Casas fails. I like having Arias as depth for down the road, so I'm not for trading him. I want to keep Mayer. With Story a concern and aging. I'm not for trading Mayer or Arias. Campbell could be a trade piece, but I'd avoid, if I could.

I'm not for trading any top player or prospect for a rental, and that includes Arias and Garcia. I'm thinking Romero, Bleis and maybe Sandlin is about as high as I go. I'm just not sure they bring back what we need, so playing it halfway doesn't make sense to me, either.

This is not an easy choice.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How would the '25 Sox fare if they added the equivalent of these '18 mid-season acquisitions: 

1B Steve Pearce, World Series MVP

2B Ian Kinsler, Gold Glove

P Nathan Eovaldi, best postseason pitcher

Here's who Boston traded away in those deals:

Santiago Espinal, still active, All-Star second baseman '22, 4.1 career WAR 

Ty Buttrey, pitcher, out of baseball in three years, 1.3 career WAR

Williams Jerez, pitcher, out of baseball in two years, -0.4 WAR

Jalen Beeks, pitcher, still active but in seven years has 1.8 WAR

[Nick]

PRIORITY #1 WHILE LOOKING FOR PITCHING HELP

ENTEND/SIGN BREGMAN.....GOOD DEFENSE, GREAT BAT ESPECIALLY AT FENWAY.

DON'T MESS THIS UP MR. BRESLOW.