It's Time to Can Cora

[Hitch]

I genuinely can't decide if this TedYazPapiMookie character is a wonderfully committed Troll, or mad.

Good entertainment either way. 

[notin]

41 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I genuinely can't decide if this TedYazPapiMookie character is a wonderfully committed Troll, or mad.

Can’t it be both?

[notin]

18 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Bad defense directly affects pitching and leads to bad pitching. Bad plays can result in men on base, which forces the moundsman to pitch from the stretch instead of the wind-up, and always extends innings requiring more pitches to retire the side.

More mistakes on the field = more pitches per inning = more chances to make mistake pitches... which most big league hitter clobber.

Last word on fielding percentage: no error is issued for a fielder who doesn't charge a grounder or doesn't get a good enough jump to outrun a fly ball. No E is charged when a first baseman ranges too far to his right for a chopper and nobody covers the bag in time. And no double play can be assumed after a fielder's choice gets the lead runner at 2B -- so a wild or late return throw to 1B is not an error... that's because often it's caused by an imperfect feed throw to the pivot, who maybe double-clutched or rushed the transfer (or in the olden days was trucked into LF by Hal McRae or Don Baylor).

None of those miscues decrease a team's fielding percentage -- but players, managers, coaches, and scouts are very aware of the difference between a sharp, tidy D and a loose, shoddy D.

Fans, too...

There are lots of issues with fielding percentage.

A couple weeks back, I was watching a Rangers-White Sox game and saw the following “defense”.

Austin Slater hit a routine flyball to deep center.  Rangers’ CF Sam Haggerty settled under the ball on the warning track.  Just as he caught it, LF Wyatt Langford plowed him over and the ball popped out.  Slater, who had been jogging, managed to reach third. Error was charged to Haggerty.  Haggerty!! For what? Making the mistake of forgetting his LF was a buffoon?

Next up was Chase Meidroth.  Routine grounder to third that Jace Jung dropped, Jung picked it up and fired to first but Meidroth beat the throw.  Error -Jung. Had this been a less speedy runner, it’s very likely an out with no error.  So now fielding is measured by the speed of the opposing runner?

Then Lenin Garcia hit a routine grounder to Rangers 2b Marcus Semien.  Instead of throwing the ball, Semien tried to chase down the speedy Meidroth.  Once that failed, he threw to first but Garcia beat the throw. No error charged.  Somehow it was a clean play.

So three routine hits, no outs recorded, and what should have been a clean 1-2-3 inning for Ranger hurler Hobie Milner was instead a 6 run inning.  The two errors in it were from one player getting tackled by his teammate, and one because the runner was too fast. 
 

Just not seeing the value in this stat…

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

Next up was Chase Meidroth.  Routine grounder to third that Jace Jung dropped, Jung picked it up and fired to first but Meidroth beat the throw.  Error -Jung. Had this been a less speedy runner, it’s very likely an out with no error.  So now fielding is measured by the speed of the opposing runner?

A less speedy runner? 

[mvp 78]

On his 90 ft splits, he's tied with Vlad Jr. 😬

[sk7326]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Your theory that Breslow is playing some sort of long game that includes a plan to get Cora fired is a novel one.  You're telling us stuff that has never been reported anywhere else.  You're telling us stuff that defies credulity.  Sorry if you don't understand this.

 

 

I admire his commitment to the bit.  But ...

1. Cora was on an expiring deal last year.  If Breslow wanted to let Alex Cora go, he'd have done what a lazy person like me would have done ... nothing.

2. I understand the pull to fire Cora.  The team has apparently lost 789 one run games this season.  You can nitpick about managing and execution.  But - it's also possible that a 6-17 record in one-run games is stupid chaotic baseball.  If the team went 12-11 in those 23 games, the team is 38-29 and people are in a less agitated state.  You have to acknowledge at least the possibility than they will just win more 1-run games because of math.

3. Ultimately players they depend on need to play better.  Story has had a couple of good games in a row - is this a sign? (I am guessing no, but hey - I might be wrong)  Campbell looks like maybe he is over his May swoon - something entirely reasonable to get from rookies. (I am guessing yes here)  

4. On the bright side, Devers is having his best season - that's cool.  And the new guys have all been big hits.  Really, THAT has been the bummer.  Crochet has been everything we wanted, and the team has not had much recordwise to show for it. 

[mvp 78]

Imagine if they didn't sign Story in '22, but signed Swanson in '23 like a lot of us wanted instead. Cora would probably look like a better manager. 😎

[Bellhorn04]

49 minutes ago, notin said:

There are lots of issues with fielding percentage.

A couple weeks back, I was watching a Rangers-White Sox game and saw the following “defense”.

Austin Slater hit a routine flyball to deep center.  Rangers’ CF Sam Haggerty settled under the ball on the warning track.  Just as he caught it, LF Wyatt Langford plowed him over and the ball popped out.  Slater, who had been jogging, managed to reach third. Error was charged to Haggerty.  Haggerty!! For what? Making the mistake of forgetting his LF was a buffoon?

Next up was Chase Meidroth.  Routine grounder to third that Jace Jung dropped, Jung picked it up and fired to first but Meidroth beat the throw.  Error -Jung. Had this been a less speedy runner, it’s very likely an out with no error.  So now fielding is measured by the speed of the opposing runner?

Then Lenin Garcia hit a routine grounder to Rangers 2b Marcus Semien.  Instead of throwing the ball, Semien tried to chase down the speedy Meidroth.  Once that failed, he threw to first but Garcia beat the throw. No error charged.  Somehow it was a clean play.

So three routine hits, no outs recorded, and what should have been a clean 1-2-3 inning for Ranger hurler Hobie Milner was instead a 6 run inning.  The two errors in it were from one player getting tackled by his teammate, and one because the runner was too fast. 
 

Just not seeing the value in this stat…

Fielding percentage in isolation tells us very little, that's for sure.

My issue is that just because fielding percentage by itself tells us little, and just because errors can be a matter of opinion, it still doesn't follow that errors are a meaningless statistic.

One of the biggest issues with Devers as a fielder was...he made too many errors.  

Probably the biggest issue with Kike at SS in 2023 was...he made too many errors.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[sk7326]

Looking at the Statcast Data so far. (outs above average)

1B: Casas/Toro combined for -3 OAA, (26th of 35 qualified)

2B: Campbell -7 OAA (48th of 48)

3b: Bregman +2 (8th of 35)

SS: Story -3 (30th of 35)

LF: Duran -2 (25th of 38)

CF: Rafaela +9 (2nd of 37)

RF: Abreau +4 (2nd of 37)

 

[mvp 78]

55 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Fielding percentage in isolation tells us very little, that's for sure.

My issue is that just because fielding percentage by itself tells us little, and just because errors can be a matter of opinion, it still doesn't follow that errors are a meaningless statistic.

One of the biggest issues with Devers as a fielder was...he made too many errors.  

Probably the biggest issue with Kike at SS in 2023 was...he made too many errors.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

The bathwater isn't the only part of the tub though! 

[mvp 78]

25 minutes ago, sk7326 said:

Looking at the Statcast Data so far. (outs above average)

1B: Casas/Toro combined for -3 OAA, (26th of 35 qualified)

2B: Campbell -7 OAA (48th of 48)

3b: Bregman +2 (8th of 35)

SS: Story -3 (30th of 35)

LF: Duran -2 (25th of 38)

CF: Rafaela +9 (2nd of 37)

RF: Abreau +4 (2nd of 37)

 

Need to trade Wilyer because nobody can spell his name. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, notin said:

Just not seeing the value in this stat…

I don't really care about fielding percentage, but I really care about defense. My post was in reply to Max, who always tries to separate and stress hitting and pitching over defense. 

The whole idea is that pitching and defense are directly connected -- they both happen on one side of the ball in an attempt to prevent the offense from scoring.

And the correct ruling on that Garcia grounder you described should have been a fielder's choice, not a hit. Semien chose to pursue Meidroth instead of immediately making a throw that would've beaten Garcia to 1B. I realize sometimes it goes the other way, like if a shortstop dives in the hole to make a stop and only has one chance at an out by throwing to 2B or 3B to force a lead runner; if he gets the out, it's a fielder's choice, but if everyone's safe, the batter gets a hit because there was no way he was getting thrown out at 1B.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Need to trade Wilyer because nobody can spell his name. 

Ceddanne is easier?

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Ceddanne is easier?

I see far less misspellings of Rafaela than I do of Abreu. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I see far less misspellings of Rafaela than I do of Abreu. 

Nobody even tries to spell Ceddanne.

I thought you were talking about "Wilyer" not Ahbraoh.

🤪

[mvp 78]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

Nobody even tries to spell Ceddanne.

I thought you were talking about "Wilyer" not Ahbraoh.

🤪

It's either Abreyu or Abreau that I see on here. 

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It's either Abreyu or Abreau that I see on here. 

 

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It's either Abreyu or Abreau that I see on here. 

Yes, Rafaela is easier than Abrayoo.

Wilyer is easier than Seddain.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

7 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Your theory that Breslow is playing some sort of long game that includes a plan to get Cora fired is a novel one.  You're telling us stuff that has never been reported anywhere else.  You're telling us stuff that defies credulity.  Sorry if you don't understand this.

 

 

I'm not baseball reference providing a documented fact, I am suggesting from where I sit that Breslow deserves more credit than I gave him.  As the story of the Red Sox unfolds, it appears to me that Breslow is a far more politically savvy GM than I gave him credit for since he's a rookie GM.  I'm looking at the net results of his actions:

1 - Devers moved to DH - Check

2 - Boston gets its first ACE since Sale in 2017 - Check

3 - Boston gets a second top of the rotation SP2 - Check

4 - Boston fails to capitalize on the additions casting questions on the untouchable manager - Check

5 - The BIG 3 in the minors are promoted in the same year lowering chances of losing control years to great achievements - Check

All Breslow has to do now is get Cora replaced and see if it changes the Buehler situation.  If so, I believe Buehler will resign with us but not if Cora is here.  By adding his own manager, so many things should improve across the organization.  Relationships among the coaching staff will improve if Breslow completely picks his own guys.  Coaching philosophies should complement each other and provide pitchers with more input into how they approach games (I observed this when Boche came to Texas with Maddux).

These are observations I've made.  Cora may not get fired but Breslow sure has had A LOT of things work out with patience and a political savvy I did not expect.  These observations shouldn't aggravate any fans, they are one plausible explanation to what's going on behind the scenes in Boston.  There are no guarantees, take it for what it's worth.  It's a theory that might work out to be true soon.  If you don't believe it, I'm cool with that.  Just don't hurl a bunch of insults because my opinion of what is to happen isn't mainstream publicized. 

Ask yourself, if you were Breslow, and you wanted to pick your own manager and current guy is tight with Henry what would you do to achieve your end goal because I can't imagine being a GM who doesn't want to hire their staff.  Has Breslow nearly achieved his objective without stirring the pot, insulting the existing manager or aggressively blaming anyone?  Media and Fans are calling for Cora's head not Breslow.  He's 100% behind Cora publicly.  Just like he had Cora do the dirty work of moving Devers, I think the Media and Fans are doing the dirty work to remove Cora.

[Duran Is The Man]

6 hours ago, notin said:

There are lots of issues with fielding percentage.

A couple weeks back, I was watching a Rangers-White Sox game and saw the following “defense”.

Austin Slater hit a routine flyball to deep center.  Rangers’ CF Sam Haggerty settled under the ball on the warning track.  Just as he caught it, LF Wyatt Langford plowed him over and the ball popped out.  Slater, who had been jogging, managed to reach third. Error was charged to Haggerty.  Haggerty!! For what? Making the mistake of forgetting his LF was a buffoon?

Next up was Chase Meidroth.  Routine grounder to third that Jace Jung dropped, Jung picked it up and fired to first but Meidroth beat the throw.  Error -Jung. Had this been a less speedy runner, it’s very likely an out with no error.  So now fielding is measured by the speed of the opposing runner?

Then Lenin Garcia hit a routine grounder to Rangers 2b Marcus Semien.  Instead of throwing the ball, Semien tried to chase down the speedy Meidroth.  Once that failed, he threw to first but Garcia beat the throw. No error charged.  Somehow it was a clean play.

So three routine hits, no outs recorded, and what should have been a clean 1-2-3 inning for Ranger hurler Hobie Milner was instead a 6 run inning.  The two errors in it were from one player getting tackled by his teammate, and one because the runner was too fast. 
 

Just not seeing the value in this stat…

IMHO, a couple of these are on the official score keeper. Langford should have been charged with the error, not Haggerty. and Semien should have been charged because he made a poor decision to try to run down Chase. Jung did commit an error by not fielding the ball cleany and was correctly charged E5.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

8 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

1. This doesn't even make sense as Breslow was happy NOT signing Bregman going into the season. There was a good chance that Devers was going to be the 3b in 2025. The trade proposals to the Cardinals were never realistic enough because they always included salary dumps that the Cardinals wouldn't take on, same as Breslow faced when dealing with the Mariners.

2. If he wants to add wins by firing Cora, why extend him. It makes zero sense. 

You could be right.  I just look at where Breslow started and where he is now.  He got Devers to DH by using Cora, he went out and traded and free agented SPs to significantly upgrade the pitching.  He added an all-star 3B to improve the offense and defense.  And now with all the excellent upgrades, the team is failing and there is nowhere to point to except Cora.  Coincidence?  Or a well-planned strategy by Breslow? 

For me, it sure looks like a well-planned strategy.  The extension of Cora at $7Million a year was a public endorsement of Cora so NOBODY will blame Breslow if Cora gets canned.  Politically brilliant.  Maybe he actually likes Cora, but wouldn't you want to pick your manager if you were a GM?  Did anyone blame Breslow for moving Devers to DH?  Nope.  Who was the first to suggest Devers at 1B?  Breslow!  He knew Cora was completely against it.  That was the only time we've seen the manager and GM disagree.  Cora won the discussion because Breslow in the end supported him.  Breslow seems like a very patient and strategic thinker playing the long-game.  It's been rumored he's pretty intelligent. 

I could be wrong and the path from hiring until now could be all coincidental on Breslow's part but what if it isn't?  I say brilliant because he's literally fixing all that things that have broken is Cora and Bloom arrived. 

[illinoisredsox]

Signed, Craig Breslow

[notin]

21 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

A less speedy runner? 

So roughly half the league is slower.

 

But the point is that errors, and ultimately fielding percentage, is clearly dependent on factors beyond the fielder…

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

But the point is that errors, and ultimately fielding percentage, is clearly dependent on factors beyond the fielder…

I agree. From Nomar complaining about the grounds crew to Papi yelling at the official scorer, the whole process stinks. 

[Dalas21000]

Why is it that every time Chapman comes in, he can only pitch 1 inning, does his job and the next pitcher loses the game? Not possible to let Chapman go 2 innings in extras? He does have a 1.65 ERA and all....Apparently Cora wouldn't consider this....As well, have seen other teams such as the Blue Jays do this to Boston to beat them with their closer.

[Dalas21000]

Bringing up new players from the minors is great in all, but Cora is not managing his pitching very well in my opinion.....I think this has been his biggest issue since managing the team....He has gotten bailed out so many times through the years with good teams but not lately

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Dalas21000 said:

Bringing up new players from the minors is great in all, but Cora is not managing his pitching very well in my opinion.....I think this has been his biggest issue since managing the team....He has gotten bailed out so many times through the years with good teams but not lately

Good teams win. Mediocre teams play .500 ball. That's just where we're at. 

[Bellhorn04]

25 minutes ago, notin said:

So roughly half the league is slower.

 

But the point is that errors, and ultimately fielding percentage, is clearly dependent on factors beyond the fielder…

Let's use a real world example.

Raffy Devers.  Did his high error rate have more to do with a) his own play or b) these other factors you're referring to?

 

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, Dalas21000 said:

Bringing up new players from the minors is great in all, but Cora is not managing his pitching very well in my opinion.....I think this has been his biggest issue since managing the team....He has gotten bailed out so many times through the years with good teams but not lately

I'm aghast at how bad our pitching is, but I'm looking more at Breslow and Bailey than at Cora.

Breslow and Bailey were supposed to really improve the pitching, and it just isn't happening.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Let's use a real world example.

Raffy Devers.  Did his high error rate have more to do with a) his own play or b) these other factors you're referring to?

Looking at his 2020 season, I'm going to go with other factors. If there was a full 162 games that year, he may have had 37 errors at 3b. Nobody has had that kind of season since Butch Hobson and Darrell Evans in the 70's BACK WHEN FUNDAMETALS MATTERED BUDDY. 

[Jasonbay44]

18 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

It's either Abreyu or Abreau that I see on here. 

Which is odd to me. It’s not like Abreu is an uncommon last name, especially in baseball. Most my life there has been an all star with the last name Abreu in the league and multiple relief pitchers and such. Jose Abreu, Bobby Abreu, Bryan Abreu, Albert Abreu, etc.