Mariners (Woo) vs Red Sox (Crochet): 4/24/25, 1:35pm

[Hitch]

That was a frustrating game to watch. We were never really further back than 2, but it never felt likely we were coming back.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

18 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Couldn't the last 21 games show he is over the injury? Couldn't hitting the ball harder than anyone else, but having bad luck be part of the reason for lower numbers?

I'm not hanging out over 3 years. I mentioned the last 162 games as another possible timeframe.

I have said I am worried about his last 80 games and whether this years poor start is related to the injury. I never said otherwise.

It could, but that is a very small sample size.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I get where you're coming from, but the ASB is a natural starting point.

I'm with you in that I don't think he's suddenly bad, but something is up. Even today - they're just throwing him fastball after fastball and he just cannot catch up. Pitchers aren't even trying anything else against him.

 

I've never doubted something might be up.

I've never said this start isn't related to the injury or whatever the issue was post ASB 2024.

I'm just saying that selected timeframe is subjective, although for a reason (injury-related) so totally useless or important. I am just not sure it is THE most important time frame.

he's hit the ball hard, recently (not today) . he had an .810 OPS in 21 games, before today. That made me wonder, if he is still in the "something's up" mode.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

It could, but that is a very small sample size.

If it wasn't for the hard hit% being high, I'd be much more worried, and the hard hit% has been there for 21 games, 80 games, 162 games, 300 games and career.

I am worried.

I am concerned.

I am just not thinking this is who he is, now- not that you are, but you seem much closer to that than I am.

[illinoisredsox]

23 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I get where you're coming from, but the ASB is a natural starting point.

I'm with you in that I don't think he's suddenly bad, but something is up. Even today - they're just throwing him fastball after fastball and he just cannot catch up. Pitchers aren't even trying anything else against him.

 

Wasn't there a series a few years ago when the Astros threw 50+ straight fastballs at him?  My point being it isn’t a new strategy.  But until he proves he can do something with them …

[Hitch]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I've never doubted something might be up.

I've never said this start isn't related to the injury or whatever the issue was post ASB 2024.

I'm just saying that selected timeframe is subjective, although for a reason (injury-related) so totally useless or important. I am just not sure it is THE most important time frame.

he's hit the ball hard, recently (not today) . he had an .810 OPS in 21 games, before today. That made me wonder, if he is still in the "something's up" mode.

His OPS is somewhat skewed by that really weird breakout series against the Cardinals mind. He has been far less impressive either side.

I'd be interested in knowing how they pitched him in that series, whether it was a steady diet of fastballs or they gave him off speed to hit. I can't remember off the top of my head.

[jad]

Sorry I staarted this. I repeat: Devers is my favorite player and I want to see him play,  He's not playing.   His K rate is way higher as a DH than it's been, and my 'eye-test'?  I've seen him put in some of the worst at bats this spring than I've ever seen.  Taking pitches right down the middle, and swinging wildly at bad pitches (and not just the high fb he's always had trouble with).   I agree, last year he was hurt.  But not now.  If I were managing (and I'm not), I would run him out there at 3rd a couple of times a week, just to keep his head in the game.   It's pretty hard to stay in shape (mentally or physically) sitting on your butt--something he has never done in his career.    (And trust me, there is nothing I would rather have happen than to hve you traash-talk me in triumph when he leads the team in hitting.)

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If it wasn't for the hard hit% being high, I'd be much more worried, and the hard hit% has been there for 21 games, 80 games, 162 games, 300 games and career.

I am worried.

I am concerned.

I am just not thinking this is who he is, now- not that you are, but you seem much closer to that than I am.

Well, it is who he is now until he shows otherwise.

[Hitch]

2 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

Wasn't there a series a few years ago when the Astros threw 50+ straight fastballs at him?  My point being it isn’t a new strategy.  But until he proves he can do something with them …

I thought I heard them say on commentary today that it was last season? I may have misheard that, though.

I'm not sure if it's new or not, he hasn't been a worry before last year's ASB, but man, it's a worry seeing how late he is on them right now.

[illinoisredsox]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

That's got to be it for Crochet. Yes, he's human.

Nees a strong pen game, here, and some bats coming alive.

He did what an ace does when he doesn’t have it on a given day:  he gave the Sox a puncher’s chance.  He kept the score reasonable instead of letting it blow up.

[redsoxrules]

3 minutes ago, jad said:

Sorry I staarted this. I repeat: Devers is my favorite player and I want to see him play,  He's not playing.   His K rate is way higher as a DH than it's been, and my 'eye-test'?  I've seen him put in some of the worst at bats this spring than I've ever seen.  Taking pitches right down the middle, and swinging wildly at bad pitches (and not just the high fb he's always had trouble with).   I agree, last year he was hurt.  But not now.  If I were managing (and I'm not), I would run him out there at 3rd a couple of times a week, just to keep his head in the game.   It's pretty hard to stay in shape (mentally or physically) sitting on your butt--something he has never done in his career.    (And trust me, there is nothing I would rather have happen than to hve you traash-talk me in triumph when he leads the team in hitting.)

If Devers is truly affected by what happened then he truly to forfeit that contract back. Like seriously. No excuses for this guy. You're a professional athlete so deliver regardless of what situation your put in. Especially when you got paid over 300M FFS! 

 

 

[moonslav59]

On the road to CLE to face a decent team. We will face a righty-lefty-righty, if it goes as planned.

Time to turn it up a notch.

[moonslav59]

Dobbins pitches, tonight for Woo. It is the free game of the day on MLB.com.

[Old Red]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Never.

I wouldn't mind seeing him 4th, but not as a demotion, but for more RBIs. (I also see RHBs Campbell or Bregman as a good fits for the 2 slot.)

Never? He playing like Never Devers right now, and shouldn’t even be the Bat Boy let alone bat 4th, or 2nd, and yes a demotion at the very least. Speaking of 4th how’s Abreu’s stats holding up batting 4th?

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Never? He playing like Never Devers right now, and shouldn’t even be the Bat Boy let alone bat 4th, or 2nd, and yes a demotion at the very least. Speaking of 4th how’s Abreu’s stats holding up batting 4th?

Never say never. True.

I'd say the guy "kicking the ball all over RF" is doing a fine job batting 4th vs RHPs only and playing RF.

[Old Red]

28 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Never say never. True.

I'd say the guy "kicking the ball all over RF" is doing a fine job batting 4th vs RHPs only and playing RF.

Abreu is 5-34 batting 4th with a OPS somewhere between  500, and 600, which is closer to 500. That’s doing a fine job? 3 RBI in his last 15 games total, and that was on 1 swing of the bat.

[harmony]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

That was a frustrating game to watch. We were never really further back than 2, but it never felt likely we were coming back.

The Red Sox left only four runners on base while the Mariners left 12 on base. In that respect the game was not as close as the final score suggests.

Seattle posted its first series win at Fenway Park since 2014.

[moonslav59]

43 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Abreu is 5-34 batting 4th with a OPS somewhere between  500, and 600, which is closer to 500. That’s doing a fine job? 3 RBI in his last 15 games total, and that was on 1 swing of the bat.

I wasn't aware of the 34 AB sample size.

All the more reason to try Devers 4th and maybe Campbell or Bregman 2nd.

[Old Red]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

I wasn't aware of the 34 AB sample size.

All the more reason to try Devers 4th and maybe Campbell or Bregman 2nd.

34 AB sample size is all there is. You said he was doing a fine job. The only place I would try Devers right now is the bench, and his stats are all the more reason. I think Raffy is broken right now, and I don’t mean physically. 

[Old Red]

5 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I always get to Campbell's spot to figure out what madness Cora is up to. 😔

You mean KC in CF today where he almost had a Major run in.

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

On the road to CLE to face a decent team. We will face a righty-lefty-righty, if it goes as planned.

Time to turn it up a notch.

MEH! LETS GO CELTICS.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

34 AB sample size is all there is. You said he was doing a fine job. 

I was wrong. See how easy that is to mean and say?

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

. The only place I would try Devers right now is the bench, and his stats are all the more reason. I think Raffy is broken right now, and I don’t mean physically. 

A rare specific suggestion from you.

I disagree, but I can see why someone would want this.

Speaking of 34 AB sample sizes (or more,) Devers had been this, before today:

.794 in last 80 PAs

5 rbi in his last 5 games (23 PAs)

BTW, Devers was at .703 on 4/17/24 and got to .872 by 4/30 and .929 by 5/3, that's how small these sample sizes are.

Patience is a virtue. (sometimes)

[moonslav59]

43 minutes ago, harmony said:

The Red Sox left only four runners on base while the Mariners left 12 on base. In that respect the game was not as close as the final score suggests.

Seattle posted its first series win at Fenway Park since 2014.

Hey, harmony: maybe the Sox win, today had we traded Yoshida for Garver and ____.

[Old Red]

35 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

A rare specific suggestion from you.

I disagree, but I can see why someone would want this.

Speaking of 34 AB sample sizes (or more,) Devers had been this, before today:

.794 in last 80 PAs

5 rbi in his last 5 games (23 PAs)

BTW, Devers was at .703 on 4/17/24 and got to .872 by 4/30 and .929 by 5/3, that's how small these sample sizes are.

Patience is a virtue. (sometimes)

Devers has never been in this situation before being the FT DH either physically, or Mentally. It’s a whole new different situation. Time will tell on how it all works out. 

[jdc69]

I think 1/4 of the season is a fair sample size, however we should be going for a 3rd great SP no matter what.

[harmony]

54 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Hey, harmony: maybe the Sox win, today had we traded Yoshida for Garver and ____.

Even before dropping Mitch Haniger, the Mariners lacked enough negative-value contracts to make a Masataka Yoshida trade feasible.

Nevertheless the Red Sox and Mariners should be contenders.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Devers has never been in this situation before being the FT DH either physically, or Mentally. It’s a whole new different situation. Time will tell on how it all works out. 

That very well may be part or most of the issue.

Others seem to think the shoulder issue is continuing into this season.

Maybe it's a little of both, or something else.

Maybe it's just a couple of long slumps sandwiched around a 10 game nice streak or the STL series.

If you count the 80+ game stretch as one long slump due to one cause, which it might be, it is concerning, but he has had some smaller poor stretches:

.703 in first 13 games of '24.

.622 in a 17 games stretch in April '23 and .648 in another 28 games stretch in '23.

.651 in a 19 game stretch in April '22 and .703 to end the '22 season's last 56 games.

,655 over the first 31 games of the 2020 season.\

.626 over the first 16 games of 2019 and .690 over the first 25 games.

None of these streaks equals this one stretched over two seasons, but most of the bad stretches were in April or to end a season.

Something to think about.

He's between .889 and 1.008 in the months from May to July and .759 to .803 in April, August and Sept over his career.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, harmony said:

Even before dropping Mitch Haniger, the Mariners lacked enough negative-value contracts to make a Masataka Yoshida trade feasible.

Most of the trades I suggested included some money going to SEA to offset some or all of the cost differential. Others included us getting Castillo plus one or both of Garver & Haniger.

[harmony]

32 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Most of the trades I suggested included some money going to SEA to offset some or all of the cost differential. Others included us getting Castillo plus one or both of Garver & Haniger.

The Mariners were never likely to trade from their starting rotation given their lack of pitching depth and the pedestrian ERA+ of 106 posted by the staff last year.