A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part II

[Old Red]

Corbin Burns heading for TJ surgery.

[dgalehouse]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Corbin Burns heading for TJ surgery.

How many more pitchers will go down by September?  

[Bellhorn04]

29 minutes ago, notin said:

Seriously?

1,000 at bats.  Is it a big difference then?  Talking about 20 hits over two seasons here…

Depends how you look at it, I guess.  One is clearly better than the other, and small differences can be big in MLB.   There can be small differences between the guy who's good enough to play MLB and the guy who's not.

BA is not a great stat in isolation, of course.  I'd rather use OPS+ any day.

 

[mvp 78]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

True, 1.1 innings at 3B is not a 3Bman, but he has played 69 OF innings, where we don't need him. He does have more MLB innings at SS than 2B and had way more in the minors. BTW, I did say "maybe." It's about the same as saying "Maybe Campbell or Anthony can play 1B."

Many "utility players are only middle infielders, and few can run like he does.

I'd keep him around ahead of Sogard, Eaton, Noda, Burdi and Toro, if we could get Devers or Campbell to play 1B. He might be tied with Penrod. That's #6, maybe.

 

0 MLB innings in the OF for Hamilton. He’s 2b only.

[moonslav59]

23 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

0 MLB innings in the OF for Hamilton. He’s 2b only.

He might be the best 2Bman we have, right now, especially needing Mayer at 3B and Story at SS. I can't see the point in the DFA him opinion.

[vjcsmoke]

Who do you guys feel will get traded at the deadline? I keep hearing Jurran Duran's name mentioned.

I do feel we have an excess of outfielders, especially since we need to make room for our #1 prospect Roman Anthony.

The good news is we're not as bad as the Baltimore Orioles but the bad news is we're still the 4th best team in the division.

I feel like we have some talent to compete but it's just not 'all there' somehow.

[moonslav59]

42 minutes ago, vjcsmoke said:

Who do you guys feel will get traded at the deadline? I keep hearing Jurran Duran's name mentioned.

All players with one year remaining are on the table, including those with options:

Bregman, Chapman, Wilson, Buehler, Refsnyder, Giolito, Hendriks and of course anyone willing to take Story or Yoshida off our hands (with cash included.)

Yes, an OF'er, and Duran seems like the slight choice over Abreu.

Maybe make a choice on who our middle infielders will be, and 3B, if it looks like Bregman is a goner. We won't get much for DHam, Grissom or Romy, but one should go. Maybe, we go with 3B Bregman, SS Mayer and 2B Campbell or 3B Campbell, SS Mayer and 2B Story. Who knows?

Devers should try 1B to start 2026. Give JH Garcia a 1Bman's mitt and see if he can play 1B better or be the DH.

C Narvaez & Wong

1B Devers/Jh Garcia (Romy)

2B Campbell/Story (DHam)

SS Mayer/Story (Romy)

3B Bregman/Campbell (Romy)

LF Anthony/ Jh Garcia

CF Rafaela/Campbell

RF Abreu/Refsnyder/Anthony

DH Jh Garcia/Devers/Campbell

 

[moonslav59]

Fork time by early June?

Sure looks like it, right now.

[moonslav59]

I'm thinking watching Greenville would be more fun.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

14 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

All players with one year remaining are on the table, including those with options:

Bregman, Chapman, Wilson, Buehler, Refsnyder, Giolito, Hendriks and of course anyone willing to take Story or Yoshida off our hands (with cash included.)

Yes, an OF'er, and Duran seems like the slight choice over Abreu.

Maybe make a choice on who our middle infielders will be, and 3B, if it looks like Bregman is a goner. We won't get much for DHam, Grissom or Romy, but one should go. Maybe, we go with 3B Bregman, SS Mayer and 2B Campbell or 3B Campbell, SS Mayer and 2B Story. Who knows?

Devers should try 1B to start 2026. Give JH Garcia a 1Bman's mitt and see if he can play 1B better or be the DH.

C Narvaez & Wong

1B Devers/Jh Garcia (Romy)

2B Campbell/Story (DHam)

SS Mayer/Story (Romy)

3B Bregman/Campbell (Romy)

LF Anthony/ Jh Garcia

CF Rafaela/Campbell

RF Abreu/Refsnyder/Anthony

DH Jh Garcia/Devers/Campbell

 

You continually say devers at 1B but devers the assistant GM has made it abundantly clear that he will not play there.

[Randy Red Sox]

On 5/29/2025 at 5:00 AM, moonslav59 said:

I'm not giving up, just yet, but I don't see this team going anywhere but near .500, this season.

It's very sad, because it did look like we made some significant improvements to high need areas, last winter. It looked like we had decent SP'er depth, improved defense and about the same offense, which was not bad, last year. Out pen was a known area of continued need, but that is the one area that seems easier to address mid season.

OH well.

I know many want heads to roll, but I find it hard to be hyper critical towards those that made deals I agreed with. 

I am like you. I thought this team would be much better but the holes we have at 1B and 2B look bad and are killing the line-up along with Connor Wong. Not sure why we didn't give Grandal a shot.'t

[Randy Red Sox]

14 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

All players with one year remaining are on the table, including those with options:

Bregman, Chapman, Wilson, Buehler, Refsnyder, Giolito, Hendriks and of course anyone willing to take Story or Yoshida off our hands (with cash included.)

Yes, an OF'er, and Duran seems like the slight choice over Abreu.

Maybe make a choice on who our middle infielders will be, and 3B, if it looks like Bregman is a goner. We won't get much for DHam, Grissom or Romy, but one should go. Maybe, we go with 3B Bregman, SS Mayer and 2B Campbell or 3B Campbell, SS Mayer and 2B Story. Who knows?

Devers should try 1B to start 2026. Give JH Garcia a 1Bman's mitt and see if he can play 1B better or be the DH.

C Narvaez & Wong

1B Devers/Jh Garcia (Romy)

2B Campbell/Story (DHam)

SS Mayer/Story (Romy)

3B Bregman/Campbell (Romy)

LF Anthony/ Jh Garcia

CF Rafaela/Campbell

RF Abreu/Refsnyder/Anthony

DH Jh Garcia/Devers/Campbell

 

at this point next year i would expect we likely will be projecting our line-up for 2027

[notin]

19 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Depends how you look at it, I guess.  One is clearly better than the other, and small differences can be big in MLB.   There can be small differences between the guy who's good enough to play MLB and the guy who's not.

BA is not a great stat in isolation, of course.  I'd rather use OPS+ any day.

 

BA also tells you 95% of the league gets a hit between 20% and 30% of their at bats.  And the other 5% falls outside that small range.  
 

And do these small differences really ever get that big?  Or is it just fan perception regarding a hitter?

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

BA also tells you 95% of the league gets a hit between 20% and 30% of their at bats.  And the other 5% falls outside that small range.  
 

And do these small differences really ever get that big?  Or is it just fan perception regarding a hitter?

This is kind of a confusing discussion.

You're basically asking "what matters?"  

Some people of course believe nothing matters at all.

I consider a 20 point difference in batting average meaningful, but only if it translates to say 40 points higher in OPS.  As I said, BA in isolation doesn't mean much.

[moonslav59]

20 hours ago, Old Red said:

Cora to some like yourself is still living off 2018 with a stacked, and a once in a lifetime season.

Wrong, again.

Of course 2018 matters, but 2021 was Cora's best work as a manager with the roster he was handed.

Keep guessing at what other think and believe and arguing with false opinions never expressed. You are good at that.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Wrong, again.

Of course 2018 matters, but 2021 was Cora's best work as a manager with the roster he was handed.

Keep guessing at what other think and believe and arguing with false opinions never expressed. You are good at that.

As I’ve stated many times the 2020 team definitely had a crap season that wouldn’t have been any better under Cora IMO. The 2020 team also had talent on it like Bogey, Raffy, and JD to name three, and ERod, and Sale came back too, so I don’t give Cora all the Credit like you, and others do for 2021. MSNS.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

As I’ve stated many times the 2020 team definitely had a crap season that wouldn’t have been any better under Cora IMO. The 2020 team also had talent on it like Bogey, Raffy, and JD to name three, and ERod, and Sale came back too, so I don’t give Cora all the Credit like you, and others do for 2021. MSNS.

Again, constructing positions I don't hold. I have never come close to giving Cora "all the credit." (For 2018 or 2021, nor do I fully or significantly blame him for 2020, 2022, 2023 and 2024. I do think he's not helped in 2025.)

First you said it was 2018, now "all the credit," while before you question how I can like Cora but criticize him on line-up construction and giving scheduled days off. Which position do you hold? If you are as wrong about your positions as your understandings of mine, maybe you have no clear positions.

[Larry Cook]

It is not Cora’s fault that the rotation is a dumpster fire after crochet 

[notin]

8 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

I am like you. I thought this team would be much better but the holes we have at 1B and 2B look bad and are killing the line-up along with Connor Wong. Not sure why we didn't give Grandal a shot.'t

Wong is a clear backup at this point.  If backup catcher is a team’s biggest weakness, that team has no weakness…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Larry Cook said:

It is not Cora’s fault that the rotation is a dumpster fire after crochet 

This was probably the rotation depth chart before the Priester trade:

1. Crochet

2. Houck- sucked and now on IL

3. Buehler- pretty much sucked

4. Bello-  done OK (missed 3 starts)

5/6. Crawford- out all year

5/6. Giolito- sucked/ missed 5 starts

7A. Sandoval- expected to be out until August (doesn't really count)

7B. Fitts- has 5 starts (not so good)

8. Priester- traded away

9. Criswell- used in pen, instead (is that on Cora or Brez?)

10. Dobbins- has 7 starts

11/12.  Newcomb- has 5 GS (might have been below #11)

11/12. Whitlock or Wink 

 

[Randy Red Sox]

14 hours ago, notin said:

Wong is a clear backup at this point.  If backup catcher is a team’s biggest weakness, that team has no weakness…

it is not like our starting C is a stud either though. 

[notin]

33 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

it is not like our starting C is a stud either though. 

Really?

.795 OPS, 2.0 fWAR, 6 Defensive Runs Saved.  All in 50 games?

He’s not Pudge Rodriguez, but he does have a legitimate chance to back up Cal Raleigh in the All Star game this year…

[Larry Cook]

15 minutes ago, notin said:

Really?

.795 OPS, 2.0 fWAR, 6 Defensive Runs Saved.  All in 50 games?

He’s not Pudge Rodriguez, but he does have a legitimate chance to back up Cal Raleigh in the All Star game this year…

I agree 100 percent, he has more than exceeded any and all expectations!!  He is having an amazing season and horrifying to think. where would we be at the catcher position without him?????

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I agree 100 percent, he has more than exceeded any and all expectations!!  He is having an amazing season and horrifying to think. where would we be at the catcher position without him?????

Ah yes the New Johnny Bench.

[Hugh2]

36 minutes ago, notin said:

Really?

.795 OPS, 2.0 fWAR, 6 Defensive Runs Saved.  All in 50 games?

He’s not Pudge Rodriguez, but he does have a legitimate chance to back up Cal Raleigh in the All Star game this year…

Quote

 

I mean, it's a close race between him and Dingler for the second C in the all star game. 

[Maxbialystock]

23 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Wrong, again.

Of course 2018 matters, but 2021 was Cora's best work as a manager with the roster he was handed.

Keep guessing at what other think and believe and arguing with false opinions never expressed. You are good at that.

You know, I hope, that I have said the same thing about 2021 and Cora many times and specifically pointed to the "roster he was handed."  

Cora kept the Sox almost (but not quite) respectable while JH and CB were sabotaging them.  

And Breslow just might be as bad as CB when you consider that dumping Sale and acquiring Giolito are the primary reasons why the Sox didn't make the postseason last year and probably won't again this season.  Sale won the Cy Young for the Braves last year and this year would still be our second best pitcher/starter after Crochet.  Giolito was actually better last year when he never pitched than this year with his 6.42 ERA and -0.5 WAR.  

[Maxbialystock]

1 minute ago, Maxbialystock said:

You know, I hope, that I have said the same thing about 2021 and Cora many times and specifically pointed to the "roster he was handed."  

Cora kept the Sox almost (but not quite) respectable while JH and CB were sabotaging them.  

And Breslow just might be as bad as CB when you consider that dumping Sale and acquiring Giolito are the primary reasons why the Sox didn't make the postseason last year and probably won't again this season.  Sale won the Cy Young for the Braves last year and this year would still be our second best pitcher/starter after Crochet.  Giolito was actually better last year when he never pitched than this year with his 6.42 ERA and -0.5 WAR.  

To Breslow's great credit, he did bring in Crochet, Bregman, and the absolute bargain of the year, Narvaez.  

[Maxbialystock]

17 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

This was probably the rotation depth chart before the Priester trade:

1. Crochet

2. Houck- sucked and now on IL

3. Buehler- pretty much sucked

4. Bello-  done OK (missed 3 starts)

5/6. Crawford- out all year

5/6. Giolito- sucked/ missed 5 starts

7A. Sandoval- expected to be out until August (doesn't really count)

7B. Fitts- has 5 starts (not so good)

8. Priester- traded away

9. Criswell- used in pen, instead (is that on Cora or Brez?)

10. Dobbins- has 7 starts

11/12.  Newcomb- has 5 GS (might have been below #11)

11/12. Whitlock or Wink 

 

You have no peer in laying down big assessments.

Could you do the same for the Sox defense?  

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

You know, I hope, that I have said the same thing about 2021 and Cora many times and specifically pointed to the "roster he was handed."  

Cora kept the Sox almost (but not quite) respectable while JH and CB were sabotaging them.  

And Breslow just might be as bad as CB when you consider that dumping Sale and acquiring Giolito are the primary reasons why the Sox didn't make the postseason last year and probably won't again this season.  Sale won the Cy Young for the Braves last year and this year would still be our second best pitcher/starter after Crochet.  Giolito was actually better last year when he never pitched than this year with his 6.42 ERA and -0.5 WAR.  

Monday morning QBs are never wrong.

I realize many disliked the Sale and Gio deals, when made, but seriously, everyone was fed up with getting nothing from Sale for over 4 years, and he'd appeared "healthy" many times before- only to go down again, with some new injury.

I disliked the Gio signing, at the time. Although he offered more hope than guys like Kluber & Richards, he cost almost twice as much, as does Buehler, now. The swings and misses on FA SP'ers has been a major downfall of this team. The only decent one was Wacha, and he missed time, when we needed him the most.

Yes, that is on the GM, fully. Brez ha swung and missed on Gio & Buehler and maybe Sandoval, too. He did strike gold on Crochet and made a decent attempt with Fitts, but it's not been wnough.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Monday morning QBs are never wrong.

I realize many disliked the Sale and Gio deals, when made, but seriously, everyone was fed up with getting nothing from Sale for over 4 years, and he'd appeared "healthy" many times before- only to go down again, with some new injury.

I disliked the Gio signing, at the time. Although he offered more hope than guys like Kluber & Richards, he cost almost twice as much, as does Buehler, now. The swings and misses on FA SP'ers has been a major downfall of this team. The only decent one was Wacha, and he missed time, when we needed him the most.

Yes, that is on the GM, fully. Brez ha swung and missed on Gio & Buehler and maybe Sandoval, too. He did strike gold on Crochet and made a decent attempt with Fitts, but it's not been wnough.

Gio offered hope? He had become a HR Derby pitcher.🤭🙈