Article: A Plea For The Red Sox To Sign Juan Soto

[Hitch]

42 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Hiring Bloom and then trading Mookie was quite a 1-2 punch.

He got a lot wrong, a lot, but he's in part, left behind a hell of a farm so we can be thankful for that at least. 

 

Those two trade deadlines though... dear me! 

[Hugh2]

39 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Hugh, a large number of the criticisms about the Red Sox inability to retain Mookie and their subsequent lack of spending refer directly to them being among the wealthiest teams. 

This is not a controversial position. 

What does that have to do with them not turning into Tampa North because they outspend them on payroll 2:1?

Facts, they outspend and out revenue Tampa.  That's my argument and it's 100% backed up by fact. 

If you want to say they have spent their money poorly and chose to not resign franchise players fine, no disagreement from me there whatsoever.  I can't argue against that, but from a pure dollars and cents perspective Boston is not Tampa Bay North and there's no evidence they're turning into them.  

I think our arguments got mixed up here at some point. 

 

[Hugh2]

55 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Hiring Bloom and then trading Mookie was quite a 1-2 punch.

Hiring Bloom had nothing to do with it, Henry directed him to trade Mookie. 

Just because Bloom came from Tampa means nothing, the guy in charge of the DOdgers was poached from Tampa so that argument is just wrong. 

[moonslav59]

58 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Hiring Bloom and then trading Mookie was quite a 1-2 punch.

Both reeked of "Tampa Bay North."

Not replacing Kimbrel, Kelly, Porcello, ERod, JD and others. Trading away Beni to save $3M to afford Renfroe. All seemed like the Rays, although there were deals like Ottavino and eventually Story, Yoshida and the bomb Devers extension.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

5 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Hiring Bloom had nothing to do with it, Henry directed him to trade Mookie. 

I think he meant these were two separate mistakes, because Bloom pretty much sucked at the majority of his moves and non-moves. Nothing against the guy; he's young enough to learn, and I'll bet his tenure in St. Louis turns out better (though I cannot and will not give a GM/CBO credit for selecting any best player available in any draft, because that's his job).

As for Mookie, I can't say this better, four years later (from the Pay Mookie Thread!):

"Boston losing Betts can't be as bad as losing Babe Ruth, but I fear it will be the biggest Red Sox mistake since -- one that media and rival fans will haunt our sons with for a long time... especially, if the BoSox blow much of their savings on free agent busts filling unavoidable voids, trying to win back fans."

 

[Hugh2]

Boston is not Tampa north.

 

hiring a guy from Tampa doesn’t make you Tampa.  The same way that hiring someone from India doesn’t turn you into an Indian.

If there was an ounce of truth to this the payroll would be down around $100 million.  They’ve had five years to shed payroll now and they’ve not.  Sure, the moves they have made have sucked, but making s***** free agent signings doesn’t mean you just ignore that money spent and say “see…..Tampa north” lol

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Except for Raffy -- who we all thought they were forced to extend -- all the others you listed were "stealth" signings by our clever conglomerate of good ole boy lifers in the front office.

The Assistant Vice Presidents get together each offseason to cleverly outbid themselves for a free agent that no other club could give a market value to...

Signings that the Rays would not do or afford. Their highest AAV contract is 8M. Their largest current contract is Jeffrey Springs at 4/31. Brandon Lowe is the only guy making over 10M this year and that's because they picked up a club option. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Signings that the Rays would not do or afford. Their highest AAV contract is 8M. Their largest current contract is Jeffrey Springs at 4/31. Brandon Lowe is the only guy making over 10M this year and that's because they picked up a club option. 

Breslow is way ahead of you. He already recruited a high-ranking Rays' front office guy, Taylor Smith, to "assist" the other John Henry loyalists upstairs. 

After a full year, Brez looked at all the recent big money "investments" -- Story, Yoshida, Devers, Giolito -- and said, "Wait, I signed that last guy... we need help -- call TAMPA!"

[Bellhorn04]

31 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Signings that the Rays would not do or afford. Their highest AAV contract is 8M. Their largest current contract is Jeffrey Springs at 4/31. Brandon Lowe is the only guy making over 10M this year and that's because they picked up a club option. 

Yes, I'd rather ignore Wander Franco's existence too.

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

What does that have to do with them not turning into Tampa North because they outspend them on payroll 2:1?

Facts, they outspend and out revenue Tampa.  That's my argument and it's 100% backed up by fact. 

If you want to say they have spent their money poorly and chose to not resign franchise players fine, no disagreement from me there whatsoever.  I can't argue against that, but from a pure dollars and cents perspective Boston is not Tampa Bay North and there's no evidence they're turning into them.  

I think our arguments got mixed up here at some point. 

 

Yeah, we're just talking past each other, as the saying goes.

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

Hiring Bloom had nothing to do with it, Henry directed him to trade Mookie. 

Just because Bloom came from Tampa means nothing, the guy in charge of the DOdgers was poached from Tampa so that argument is just wrong. 

Was DD directed by JH that he had to trade Mookie? Nothing has ever confirmed that Bloom was directed he had to trade Mookie, and to the contrary there are reports out there that Bloom was never told he had to trade Mookie.

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yes, I'd rather ignore Wander Franco's existence too.

He's on the MLB Restricted List so the Rays can ignore him. His contract is not being paid and is not a part of their CBT calc. 🤷‍♀️

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Was DD directed by JH that he had to trade Mookie? Nothing has ever confirmed that Bloom was directed he had to trade Mookie, and to the contrary there are reports out there that Bloom was never told he had to trade Mookie.

I also have a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge that I'd like to sell you.

[Hugh2]

11 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Was DD directed by JH that he had to trade Mookie? Nothing has ever confirmed that Bloom was directed he had to trade Mookie, and to the contrary there are reports out there that Bloom was never told he had to trade Mookie.

A. it's pretty well established.  If you think a guy can be hired as a new GM, trade away a HOF and not get fired for it if he wasn't directed to do it I have a bag of air I'd like to sell you. 

B. I don't give a s***, it has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. 

C. It can both be true that Bloom was told to trade Betts and he was a horrible GM.  I choose C. 

[Hugh2]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I also have a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge that I'd like to sell you.

I read this after I responded, we both made the same joke. 

[Old Red]

19 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I also have a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge that I'd like to sell you.

Put that together with the contact Soto will get will agree to from the Red Sox, and you’ve got a Whole lot of nothing.

[Old Red]

21 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

A. it's pretty well established.  If you think a guy can be hired as a new GM, trade away a HOF and not get fired for it if he wasn't directed to do it I have a bag of air I'd like to sell you. 

B. I don't give a s***, it has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. 

C. It can both be true that Bloom was told to trade Betts and he was a horrible GM.  I choose C. 

The Red Sox were not going to sign Mookie anyway, so why would you fire someone who you just hired for trading him? At least you got a little something for him. I doubt DD was told to trade Mookie either, but the report is out there he was in discussions to do so. Your Bloom was not fired for trading Mookie philosophy doesn’t hold up to anything s***, or not.🙈🤭.

[Hugh2]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox were not going to sign Mookie anyway, so why would you fire someone who you just hired for trading him? At least you got a little something for him. I doubt DD was told to trade Mookie either, but the report is out there he was in discussions to do so. Your Bloom was not fired for trading Mookie philosophy doesn’t hold up to anything s***, or not.🙈🤭.

I actually think DD might of been told to trade Mookie, maybe he was fired because he wouldn't. 

Would seem very DD like "you're crazy we're not trading Mookie, you will have to fire me John."

But like.....what was your point if you agree Bloom was instructed to trade Mookie? 

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He's on the MLB Restricted List so the Rays can ignore him. His contract is not being paid and is not a part of their CBT calc. 🤷‍♀️

But they did show a willingness to pay a lot for someone.

The other thing the Rays often do, is back-load a deal, so they trade the guy, when the contract goes up.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I actually think DD might of been told to trade Mookie, maybe he was fired because he wouldn't. 

Would seem very DD like "you're crazy we're not trading Mookie, you will have to fire me John."

But like.....what was your point if you agree Bloom was instructed to trade Mookie? 

DD was reportedly about to trade Mookie in 2019, but the team started playing better, and they decided not to be sellers.

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I actually think DD might of been told to trade Mookie, maybe he was fired because he wouldn't. 

Would seem very DD like "you're crazy we're not trading Mookie, you will have to fire me John."

DD said that he was never given one word of explanation about why he was fired, and Henry basically just stopped speaking to him.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

I actually think DD might of been told to trade Mookie, maybe he was fired because he wouldn't. 

Would seem very DD like "you're crazy we're not trading Mookie, you will have to fire me John."

But like.....what was your point if you agree Bloom was instructed to trade Mookie? 

All this Mookie talk since he’s been traded, and two main points has not been confirmed to the fans. Did JH tell anyone that Mookie had to be traded, and what was Mookie offered for a contract? Lots, and lots of speculation on both, and that’s all I’m saying. To say Bloom was directed to trade Mookie may be an opinion, which has been voiced many times on here, but as far as i know hasn’t been confirmed.

[Bellhorn04]

15 minutes ago, Old Red said:

All this Mookie talk since he’s been traded, and two main points has not been confirmed to the fans. Did JH tell anyone that Mookie had to be traded, and what was Mookie offered for a contract? Lots, and lots of speculation on both, and that’s all I’m saying. To say Bloom was directed to trade Mookie may be an opinion, which has been voiced many times on here, but as far as i know hasn’t been confirmed.

Henry issued a detailed statement on the matter.  "We" was his pronoun of choice.

https://www.mlb.com/news/john-henry-statement-on-trading-mookie-betts.  

“I think we made legitimate offers over three offseasons,” Henry said. “We made it clear to Mookie, and I made it personally clear one-on-one, that we wanted to see him in a Red Sox uniform for the rest of his life, if possible.”

“We cannot shy away from tough decisions required to aggressively compete for World Series. That is what led to this trade,” Henry said. “Free agency plays into many decisions clubs like ours have to make. Today’s players spend years in the Minor and Major Leagues earning the right to be paid in a free market, earning the right to make choices. They make significant sacrifices to get there and they deserve what they receive. Clubs also have choices to make as well in this economic system.”

 

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

But they did show a willingness to pay a lot for someone.

The other thing the Rays often do, is back-load a deal, so they trade the guy, when the contract goes up.

Rays have extended SOME players in the past (Wander, Longoria). They don't tend to sign FA's like Gio, Story, etc. The Red Sox are certainly not following any TBR trajectory. They are midmarket, not small market. 

[Old Red]

17 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Henry did make a few on-the-record comments about why they traded Mookie, and he certainly made it sound like it was a "we" thing, not a Chaim Bloom thing.  

No doubt that JH makes the call on how much money is spent, but to this day it hasn’t been confirmed on what contract was offered to Mookie. Was DD going to trade Mookie, because JH told him to, or to get something for him, because negotiations was not going to get anything done? Could be either, or both, and the same with Bloom. I think DD would have come out by now, and said if JH directed him to trade Mookie. Bloom who knows?

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

No doubt that JH makes the call on how much money is spent, but to this day it hasn’t been confirmed on what contract was offered to Mookie. Was DD going to trade Mookie, because JH told him to, or to get something for him, because negotiations was not going to get anything done? Could be either, or both, and the same with Bloom. I think DD would have come out by now, and said if JH directed him to trade Mookie. Bloom who knows.

See my edited post.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

See my edited post.

I have no doubt JH OK’d the trade, but it still doesn’t say he directed Mookie to be traded to DD, or Bloom, or what the contract offers were.

[Hugh2]

26 minutes ago, Old Red said:

All this Mookie talk since he’s been traded, and two main points has not been confirmed to the fans. Did JH tell anyone that Mookie had to be traded, and what was Mookie offered for a contract? Lots, and lots of speculation on both, and that’s all I’m saying. To say Bloom was directed to trade Mookie may be an opinion, which has been voiced many times on here, but as far as i know hasn’t been confirmed.

I really don’t care.  From these day forth I shall never talk of Mookie Betts being traded again.  It’s been rehashed a billion times and obviously gets people going.

i get it, he’s good and the Sox f***ed up.  The hat was 5 years ago and it doesn’t mean they can’t go out and sign other good guys.  

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

I have no doubt JH OK’d the trade, but it still doesn’t say he directed Mookie to be traded, or what the contract offers were.

He explained in great detail the reasons Mookie was not extended and why he was traded.  No one could read that and deduce that the trade was something Bloom did on his own. 

[Hugh2]

32 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

DD said that he was never given one word of explanation about why he was fired, and Henry basically just stopped speaking to him.

Yeah, I mostly say this in jest, like…it’s funny to me.  But honestly, I’m not 100% convinced either.  People who are fired/let go if they have honor, or professionalism just won’t discuss certain things.  Not saying I do believe it, but I guess what I’m really trying to say is I don’t care.  
 

it’s been 5 years, I’m moving on with my life.  I’m ready to love again.