Rumor: Red Sox Linked To Yet Another Elite Starter, This Time It's Left-Handed Max Fried

[Larry Cook]

Is fried more important than Soto this offseason? 

[mvp 78]

9 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

Is fried more important than Soto this offseason? 

Depends on the team. Corbin Burnes may be the better pitcher though. 

[Larry Cook]

7 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Depends on the team. Corbin Burnes may be the better pitcher though. 

Byrnes second half of 2024 was nothing to write home about!!!!

[Larry Cook]

Sports guys in Atlanta said we offered fried 180mm for 6 years. 

[notin]

On 11/17/2024 at 10:36 PM, Larry Cook said:

Is fried more important than Soto this offseason? 

No.

 

Max Fried type pitchers come and go and are available every off-season.  You cannot say the same thing about Soto.

 

Sign Soto and get your pitcher(s) another way…

[Hugh2]

Well we just Pivetta so we gotta sign someone 

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, notin said:

No.

 

Max Fried type pitchers come and go and are available every off-season.  You cannot say the same thing about Soto.

 

Sign Soto and get your pitcher(s) another way…

Ohtani was available last year. 

Judge was available the year before that. 

Semien, Seager and Freeman the year before that. 

[Larry Cook]

Does fried make a decision before the winter meetings? 

[Hitch]

On 11/18/2024 at 4:36 AM, Larry Cook said:

Is fried more important than Soto this offseason? 

No. Pitchers can (and do) break down at any moment. You get the chance for a difference maker like Soto on the team you take it. Guy plays every day. 

 

That said, I can definitely see the argument for 2 aces over Soto.

[Hugh2]

16 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Ohtani was available last year. 

Judge was available the year before that. 

Semien, Seager and Freeman the year before that. 

Ohtani 29

Judge 31

Semien 30

Seager 28

Freeman 32

SOTO will be 26 years old when he starts the season.  This is a different animal here, we are talking about one of the best players in the  game reaching free agency at the beginning of his prime and not at an age when guys can start to slow down.  

The closest guy on your list is Seager, who is not only 2 years older but at that time had accumulated a 21.8 WAR where Soto has a career War of 36.3

 

Juan Soto type free agents just do not come around very often.   They just don't. 

[moonslav59]

There are usually 3-5 Frieds, every winter.

There may be guys like Ohtani (P & hitter) and Judge, but usually there is just one per winter, and they are never 26.

I seriously doubt we get Soto, but if it's a choice, I go with Soto and trade for arms.

And, I'm the guy that always puts SP'er at the top of my winter wish list. 

Soto is a one-time opportunity. To me, the last thing that came close was the near-miss ARod trade and then Manny signing, before that.

[notin]

19 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Ohtani was available last year. 

Judge was available the year before that. 

Semien, Seager and Freeman the year before that. 

Ohtani is certainly a talent, but I think his career as a pitcher is short-lived with two TJs already under his belt.

Judge is a good case, but he was entering his age 32 season, not his age 26 season.

The only way Semien and Seager rank near Soto is alphabetically.  How did they even get in this post?  Who’s watching the door here?

[notin]

16 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

Does fried make a decision before the winter meetings? 

No.

[Bellhorn04]

23 minutes ago, notin said:

The only way Semien and Seager rank near Soto is alphabetically.  How did they even get in this post?  Who’s watching the door here?

And you're inexplicably, vastly underrating Seager.

B-R now provides bWAR per 162 games, God bless 'em.

Soto 6.3

Seager 5.8

The difference is less than 10%.

 

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

 

B-R now provides bWAR per 162 games, God bless 'em

 

Where is it listed?

[mvp 78]

46 minutes ago, notin said:

Ohtani is certainly a talent, but I think his career as a pitcher is short-lived with two TJs already under his belt.

Judge is a good case, but he was entering his age 32 season, not his age 26 season.

The only way Semien and Seager rank near Soto is alphabetically.  How did they even get in this post?  Who’s watching the door here?

All guys with big contracts that can put up 6-7 bWAR. 

Since 2018, Semien has more bWAR than Soto. 

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Where is it listed?

On the 162 Game AVG line. 

[notin]

37 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And you're inexplicably, vastly underrating Seager.

B-R now provides bWAR per 162 games, God bless 'em.

Soto 6.3

Seager 5.8

The difference is less than 10%.

 

Extrapolated bWAR isn’t the same as earned bWAR.   If so, why would the Sox pursue Fried (4.9 bWAR/162 games) when they already have Richard Fitts (5.1 bWAR/162 games)?

Seager is a talented player, but he does miss a lot of time that you’re now giving him credit for.  It takes a COVID shutdown to get Soto off the field…

[notin]

20 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

All guys with big contracts that can put up 6-7 bWAR. 

Since 2018, Semien has more bWAR than Soto. 

So Semien was more useful during his peak years of ages 27-33 than Soto was during his ages 19-25? I guess that makes them equal…

[Hugh2]

47 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And you're inexplicably, vastly underrating Seager.

B-R now provides bWAR per 162 games, God bless 'em.

Soto 6.3

Seager 5.8

The difference is less than 10%.

 

Ok but aren’t we comparing free agents? Soto is more than two years younger than Seager was when he signed a contract and at that point in time when they hit free agency Soto almost doubles Corey’s WAR.

the argument was free agents like Soto do not come along often.  The fact Corey Seager had a good year last year is 100% irrelevant 

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

Extrapolated bWAR isn’t the same as earned bWAR.   If so, why would the Sox pursue Fried (4.9 bWAR/162 games) when they already have Richard Fitts (5.1 bWAR/162 games)?

Seager is a talented player, but he does miss a lot of time that you’re now giving him credit for.  It takes a COVID shutdown to get Soto off the field…

Your comment about Seager suggested he didn't even belong in a conversation with Soto.  Now you're pivoting to their health histories.  OK.   

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Ok but aren’t we comparing free agents? Soto is more than two years younger than Seager was when he signed a contract and at that point in time when they hit free agency Soto almost doubles Corey’s WAR.

the argument was free agents like Soto do not come along often.  The fact Corey Seager had a good year last year is 100% irrelevant 

No idea what you're talking about with that last sentence, frankly.  Please read the series of posts again.

My only point was that Seager has been close to Soto in terms of performance.  I really didn't know notin was including health histories in his comment.  

[Hugh2]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

No idea what you're talking about with that last sentence, frankly.  Please read the series of posts again.

I did, further back I was the one who said Soto was a once in a generation free agent opportunity, in which MVP responded with a list of guys who were good and also become free agents the past several years.  In which I responded that they were all older than Soto and less productive.  Even when Seager hit free agency he had almost 1/2 the way Soto does.

what Seager did 2 years after he signed an extension at 30 years old has zero bearing on the argument of who they were at the time of their free agency, which was the point.  That point being the elite free agents in their mid 20’s very very seldom hit free agency.  

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

I did, further back I was the one who said Soto was a once in a generation free agent opportunity, in which MVP responded with a list of guys who were good and also become free agents the past several years.  In which I responded that they were all older than Soto and less productive.  Even when Seager hit free agency he had almost 1/2 the way Soto does.

what Seager did 2 years after he signed an extension at 30 years old has zero bearing on the argument of who they were at the time of their free agency, which was the point.  That point being the elite free agents in their mid 20’s very very seldom hit free agency.  

I agree. I challenge everyone to name another past 26 year old FA as good as Soto.

In this sense, he is "generational."

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I agree. I challenge everyone to name another past 26 year old FA as good as Soto.

In this sense, he is "generational."

And he's going to be paid enough to feed some small countries for a generation. 😁 

[Hugh2]

At the time of their free agency

Soto just turned 26

Seager 28.5 almost 2.5 years older 

Soto to Seager FWar at the time of FA 

Seager 21.8 Soto 36.3

this isn’t a power ranking but the point is Seager is not Juan Soto.  Even if Seager plays better than Soto for the next ten years,, he will never have been the once in a generational talent to hit free agency in his mid 20’s that Soto is. 

[Hugh2]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I agree. I challenge everyone to name another past 26 year old FA as good as Soto.

In this sense, he is "generational."

How old was Bryce Harper????

[notin]

20 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Your comment about Seager suggested he didn't even belong in a conversation with Soto.  Now you're pivoting to their health histories.  OK.   

And you only brought extrapolated data into because the regular data doesn’t put Seager within 10% of Soto.

Do you consider Seager to be the same type of generational talent as Soto?

Seager’s had a great career, and will very likely get votes for Cooperstown.  But Soto is on a historic path.  Since 1950, he ranks 9th in fWAR through age 25.  Ahead of Betts, Bonds, Harper, Mays, Ripken and lots of other guys who have already posed for busts…

[notin]

10 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

How old was Bryce Harper????

Just finished his age 25 season, just like Soto.  He was actually a couple weeks younger…

[notin]

14 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And he's going to be paid enough to feed some small countries for a generation. 😁 

This is true.  But Boston desperately needs a superstar to get past Betts…