Rumor: MLBTR Top Trade Candidates: Wilyer Abreu

[Bellhorn04]

12 minutes ago, notin said:

I left out the money because the only comment I heard from Teoscar’s camp was he wanted more years, not more years plus more money.  He might have wanted both and explicitly told the Sox as much, but that wasn’t reported.

If years mattered to him as much as the stories impressed upon us, they mattered more in Boston than in LA.  That’s not a sign he wanted Boston…

From the sounds of it, if the Sox offered 3 years and say 50 million, Teoscar would have said yes. 

He says he did want a longer contract but when the Dodgers came forward with their offer he had to consider it because it was also a chance to be with a team going for a title.  And they made the money enough to seal the deal.

The bottom line is the Sox wouldn't go any higher than 28 million.  Just like they wouldn't go any higher with Imanaga.  It's been a recurring theme the last few years - making offers that just aren't enough to get it done, 

 

 

 

[Old Red]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

I left out the money because the only comment I heard from Teoscar’s camp was he wanted more years, not more years plus more money.  He might have wanted both and explicitly told the Sox as much, but that wasn’t reported.

If years mattered to him as much as the stories impressed upon us, they mattered more in Boston than in LA.  That’s not a sign he wanted Boston…

$23.5M compared to $14M was an easy choice to make not to mention the Dodgers are a winner, and the Red Sox are not. He will end up with more than $28M after this year also. Once again an easy choice was made, and he will be richer for it.

[Hugh2]

22 minutes ago, notin said:

I left out the money because the only comment I heard from Teoscar’s camp was he wanted more years, not more years plus more money.  He might have wanted both and explicitly told the Sox as much, but that wasn’t reported.

If years mattered to him as much as the stories impressed upon us, they mattered more in Boston than in LA.  That’s not a sign he wanted Boston…

This is a huge stretch.  Years matter because it equals job security and more money overall, it all comes down to the money. 

at $23 million a year.  That means, if he turned Bostons offer down ALL he needed to make was $9 for one year.  A bench bat makes that, it was a calculated risk he and many other players in his position make, it's still about the money this ISNT'T a zero sum game, taking less money overall but for one year doesn't null the fact that players primary focus is maximizing money. 

 

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

This is a huge stretch.  Years matter because it equals job security and more money overall, it all comes down to the money. 

at $23 million a year.  That means, if he turned Bostons offer down ALL he needed to make was $9 for one year.  A bench bat makes that, it was a calculated risk he and many other players in his position make, it's still about the money this ISNT'T a zero sum game, taking less money overall but for one year doesn't null the fact that players primary focus is maximizing money. 

 

Well said, and really easy to understand. Even if Teoscar only gets another 1 yr offer he’ll still make more than $28M he would have gotten fro the Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

48 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

This is a huge stretch.  Years matter because it equals job security and more money overall, it all comes down to the money. 

at $23 million a year.  That means, if he turned Bostons offer down ALL he needed to make was $9 for one year.  A bench bat makes that, it was a calculated risk he and many other players in his position make, it's still about the money this ISNT'T a zero sum game, taking less money overall but for one year doesn't null the fact that players primary focus is maximizing money. 

 

If you use the 23.5 million number, Boston's offer was only 4.5 million more for the second year.

If you use the 21 million (present value) number, Boston's offer was 7 million more for the second year.

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

The Red Sox front office hasn't been all-in on building a winner since trading Betts, focusing instead on fermenting from the bottom up.

In all fairness, when you look at the 40 man roster for 2020, that ended up missing Sale and ERod for the full season, you can see why building the 40 man roster depth (bottom up) over signing big ticket items, only to have no supporting cast.

My issue has been that once we got the 40 man roster depth to an acceptable level (maybe by 2021 or 2022,) we went from building the bottom to building the middle with one and done players, sprinkled with a few 2 years guys like Kike, Sawamura, Diekman, and wait for it,,, the big splash Gio. (Actually Jansen & martin were good signings, but that came in 2023.

Take a look at some of the names on the 2020 opening day roster, and tell me building the bottom should not have been the priority:

Lucroy, Plawecki, Chavis, Arauz, Lin

Weber, Hall, Covey, Brice, Osich, Brewer, P Valdez, Hembree, Walden & Brasier

That's 15 from the 40.

The mediocre guys were: Moreland, Pillar, Martin Perez, Springs, Workman and some thought Barnes, too. Basically the whole pen and all the rotation, except Nate were scubs or mediocre.

By 2021, Perez went from our 2nd SP'er to our #5, although Richards pitched worse. Pivetta and Houck also were added. We added Ottavino, Whitlock and Schreiber to the pen. We went from 1 decent pitcher to 6 or 7, not counting Sale & ERod, who started 2021 on the IL. We did have Cordero and Dalbec in the starting 9, but had Arroto on the bench, who beat Arauz with a club. I count 6 scrubs and maybe 4-5 mediocres on this opening day 40- a big jump from 2020, and the results showed.

Then, I think JH got too full of  himself, and believed his own sham- thinking we can win without spending, and we've stayed pretty even since 2022. Even at mediocrity.

I will say the 2022 season started out with a decent looking rotation, on paper: Nate, Houck, Pivetta, Wacha and Hill. The pen had Whitlock, Strahm and Barnes, but precious little more. The JBJ trade back-fired and Kike nosedived. 

 

[notin]

20 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Trade Duran and Abreu for pitching.

LF: Soto

CF: Rafaela

RF: Anthony

Jarren Duran to Philly for Cristopher Sanchez.  Two players coming off breakout years with multiple years of control and similar values on BTV.  Philly is weak in CF and DD originally drafted Duran. Sanchez, even after an excellent season, is still only their #4 starter.

 

Abreu to Minn for Johan Duran.  Again, similar BTV values and Abreu has a similar skill set to Max Kepler, who is now FA.  Plus the Twins OF depth took a small hit with the sudden retirement of Alex Kiriloff.  
 

Then sign Soto.  Sox need a superstar to replace Mookie…

[Old Red]

30 minutes ago, notin said:

Jarren Duran to Philly for Cristopher Sanchez.  Two players coming off breakout years with multiple years of control and similar values on BTV.  Philly is weak in CF and DD originally drafted Duran. Sanchez, even after an excellent season, is still only their #4 starter.

 

Abreu to Minn for Johan Duran.  Again, similar BTV values and Abreu has a similar skill set to Max Kepler, who is now FA.  Plus the Twins OF depth took a small hit with the sudden retirement of Alex Kiriloff.  
 

Then sign Soto.  Sox need a superstar to replace Mookie…

Sign Soto? Who is Boston going to outspend for him even IF they wanted to? Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Philly, and on, and on. The Red Sox had a better chance of signing Gallo, and Chapman, which they didn’t want to do. Yam Man last year, and Soto this year is just Outer Limits dreaming.🤭🙈. After Brez gets the FO all arranged I’m sure their first assignment will be to run all the figures, and come up with a landing offer to Soto with no restrictions from JH.😉

[mvp 78]

23 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox had a better chance of signing Gallo, and Chapman, which they didn’t want to do. 

What does this even mean? 

[notin]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

What does this even mean? 

It means he doesn’t read well…

[Old Red]

27 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

What does this even mean? 

Two players that Notin was fantasizing about the last few years to be in a Red Sox uniform, which the Red Sox had no interest in, which means Zero chance of happening just like Soto being in a Red Sox uniform, or the Yam Man last year. Come on man!

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Two players that Notin was fantasizing about the last few years to be in a Red Sox uniform, which the Red Sox had no interest in, which means Zero chance of happening just like Soto being in a Red Sox uniform, or the Yam Man last year. Come on man!

Sox had interest in Yamamoto they just weren't the highest bidders. 

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Sox had interest in Yamamoto they just weren't the highest bidders. 

I’m sure they had some sort of interest, but the main point being had Zero chance of landing him just like having a zero chance of landing Soto under JH reluctance to open his checkbook very wide, which doesn’t play very well against a handful of others that will.

[notin]

18 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Two players that Notin was fantasizing about the last few years to be in a Red Sox uniform, which the Red Sox had no interest in, which means Zero chance of happening just like Soto being in a Red Sox uniform, or the Yam Man last year. Come on man!

And both would have been better than what the Sox did.

 

But in this thread, mvp proposed trading Duran and Abreu to sign Soto.  I just provided equal value (on BTV’s model) trades for Duran and Abreu that would fill the pitching need and completed his proposal…

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

And both would have been better than what the Sox did.

 

But in this thread, mvp proposed trading Duran and Abreu to sign Soto.  I just provided equal value (on BTV’s model) trades for Duran and Abreu that would fill the pitching need and completed his proposal…

Nobody ever said both wouldn’t have been an better option, but I speak what I think the Red Sox will do, or don’t do, and don’t get into the make believe, and fantasy stuff, and that’s why I said the Red Sox would not be in on Chapman, and make all the drastic corresponding moves afterwards, and they didn’t.Just like now I don’t care who the Red Sox trade, or don’t trade, but I don’t see JH opening up his wallet wide enough to outbid a number of the big spenders, which will be out there, and willing to do so for Soto. 

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I’m sure they had some sort of interest, but the main point being had Zero chance of landing him just like having a zero chance of landing Soto under JH reluctance to open his checkbook very wide, which doesn’t play very well against a handful of others that will.

Soto LF

Rafaela CF

Anthony RF

It's best for business. It's what I would do. Now to just head to Fenway and do what must be done. 

🧄✝️⚔️🧛‍♀️⚰️

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, notin said:

And both would have been better than what the Sox did.

But in this thread, mvp proposed trading Duran and Abreu to sign Soto.  I just provided equal value (on BTV’s model) trades for Duran and Abreu that would fill the pitching need and completed his proposal…

Almost as realistic as trading for the top tier SEA pitchers IMO. 

[Old Red]

13 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Soto LF

Rafaela CF

Anthony RF

It's best for business. It's what I would do. Now to just head to Fenway and do what must be done. 

🧄✝️⚔️🧛‍♀️⚰️

It may be good for business, and what you would do, and it sounds good to me, but like I said I come from the viewpoint of what I think the Red Sox will actually do, which is more realistic.I  said last year when so many bought into Full Throttle I said I didn’t think the Red Sox would spend on any high priced FA, and because of that I didn’t spend all offseason trashing the FO, and JH, and crying Sham, sham, sham. I was surprised they spent as much as they did on Gio, but I kept saying let’s wait, and see how they looked on Mar 28 when the season opened, and I’ll take the same approach this year. Just being realistic, which works for me.

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It may be good for business, and what you would do, and it sounds good to me, but like I said I come from the viewpoint of what I think the Red Sox will actually do, which is more realistic.I  said last year when so many bought into Full Throttle I said I didn’t think the Red Sox would spend on any high priced FA, and because of that I didn’t spend all offseason trashing the FO, and JH, and crying Sham, sham, sham. I was surprised they spent as much as they did on Gio, but I kept saying let’s wait, and see how they looked on Mar 28 when the season opened, and I’ll take the same approach this year. Just being realistic, which works for me.

We have as good of a chance at picking the lottery as we do determining what moves they actually make this offseason. It's more interesting to just talk about different moves throughout the offseason and not get overly riled up about what Henry could or could not put the kibosh on. 

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, notin said:

Jarren Duran to Philly for Cristopher Sanchez.  Two players coming off breakout years with multiple years of control and similar values on BTV.  Philly is weak in CF and DD originally drafted Duran. Sanchez, even after an excellent season, is still only their #4 starter.

 

Abreu to Minn for Johan Duran.  Again, similar BTV values and Abreu has a similar skill set to Max Kepler, who is now FA.  Plus the Twins OF depth took a small hit with the sudden retirement of Alex Kiriloff.  
 

Then sign Soto.  Sox need a superstar to replace Mookie…

This would be astounding. I assume Campbell would be our 4th OF'er, not Ref, and he could play 2B, when not in the OF.

I think we need something very bold, this winter, but I won't let myself expect one. I'm too tired of letdowns.

The Story signing was a brief reprieve, and ultimately a letdown. The Yoshida signing was a pipedream. The Devers extension was treading water at an expensive price.

 

[Duran Is The Man]

3 hours ago, notin said:

Jarren Duran to Philly for Cristopher Sanchez.  Two players coming off breakout years with multiple years of control and similar values on BTV.  Philly is weak in CF and DD originally drafted Duran. Sanchez, even after an excellent season, is still only their #4 starter.

 

Abreu to Minn for Johan Duran.  Again, similar BTV values and Abreu has a similar skill set to Max Kepler, who is now FA.  Plus the Twins OF depth took a small hit with the sudden retirement of Alex Kiriloff.  
 

Then sign Soto.  Sox need a superstar to replace Mookie…

no on trading our Duran.

yes on trading for a Duran.

yes on signing Soto. but he's not an aging or injured journeyman pitcher, so JH would never agree to it.

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

no on trading our Duran.

yes on trading for a Duran.

yes on signing Soto. but he's not an aging or injured journeyman pitcher, so JH would never agree to it.

You're not going to be able to get the pitching you need without giving up value. Duran is at the height of his value and has a few cheap years left. Sox have some prospects coming up that can fill the roster void in OF. 

How else are they going to get better? Just sign FA starters? I think getting a 25 year old Soto AND acquiring more pitching automatically puts them in the playoff picture even if you take out Abreu and Duran. Soto doesn't have a split concern so you can bat him right next to Raffy or Casas or even in between them. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I think we need something very bold, this winter, but I won't let myself expect one. I'm too tired of letdowns.

 

You don't have to expect; just keep tying them. All your posts are bold!

[notin]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

This would be astounding. I assume Campbell would be our 4th OF'er, not Ref, and he could play 2B, when not in the OF.

I think we need something very bold, this winter, but I won't let myself expect one. I'm too tired of letdowns.

The Story signing was a brief reprieve, and ultimately a letdown. The Yoshida signing was a pipedream. The Devers extension was treading water at an expensive price.

 

I doubt Campbell is used in a reserve role, even if it means playing reasonably frequently.  Soxprospects.com has/had him penciled in as the starting 2b at one point, and he might get that role.  Although now the Sox have 3 good options with him, Hamilton and Grissom.  As the only non-40 man player, he probably starts the year in Worcester and doesn’t finish it there…

[notin]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Soto LF

Rafaela CF

Anthony RF

It's best for business. It's what I would do. Now to just head to Fenway and do what must be done. 

🧄✝️⚔️🧛‍♀️⚰️

But first sign Anthony to a deal similar to that of Jackson Chourio.  If Milwaukee can afford it so can Boston

 

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

[moonslav59]

I agree on none of our prospects being added to the 40, unless it's also to the 26 as a FT player or near FT role.

I think Campbell might have the best chance to start or be added day 2, once someone gets placed on the 60 IL. I think Anthony would be the #1, if we trade Abreu or Rafaela, or as some suggest, Duran. I do see both making it to the 40, 26 and bigs by mid season.

If everyone is healthy, starting Story at SS and having a DHam-Grissom platoon at 2B makes sense. If not OF'er is traded, I could see starting with Duran/Ref LF -Rafaela/Duran CF- Abreu RF could be the plan for opening day.

[moonslav59]

I kinda think Brez did fine filling our RHB OF slot with O'Neill at less than $6M, while trading the cancerous remaining one year of Dugo for Fitts, Weissert and Judice.

We might not need a 3 year guy, if Anthony comes through, and we also have Campbell, who could play OF, FT, or play 2B vs LHPs and CF vs RHPs.

[notin]

On 11/1/2024 at 2:25 PM, mvp 78 said:

You're not going to be able to get the pitching you need without giving up value. Duran is at the height of his value and has a few cheap years left. Sox have some prospects coming up that can fill the roster void in OF. 

How else are they going to get better? Just sign FA starters? I think getting a 25 year old Soto AND acquiring more pitching automatically puts them in the playoff picture even if you take out Abreu and Duran. Soto doesn't have a split concern so you can bat him right next to Raffy or Casas or even in between them. 

Love for the Sox to get Soto.  And I have no problem trading Duran. (Do I still have to add “in the right deal”?)

 

But if the Sox do trade Duran and sign Soto (pauses to catch breath), who bats leadoff?

 

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Love for the Sox to get Soto.  And I have no problem trading Duran. (Do I still have to add “in the right deal”?)

 

But if the Sox do trade Duran and sign Soto (pauses to catch breath), who bats leadoff?

 

keep Duran and sign Soto. easy peasy.

[notin]

51 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

keep Duran and sign Soto. easy peasy.

Right.  Then who pitches?