Article: A Red Sox Fans’ Guide to the 2024 Postseason

[Duran Is The Man]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm worried JH will take the Dodgers win to mean we don't need great SP'ers, although they did prove you need 17 SP'ers to win a ring in 2024. (They had 10 guys start 6 or more games and 8 start 10+.)

i'd be worried that JH would take the first 17 pitchers off the waiver wire.

[notin]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm worried JH will take the Dodgers win to mean we don't need great SP'ers, although they did prove you need 17 SP'ers to win a ring in 2024. (They had 10 guys start 6 or more games and 8 start 10+.)

Hopefully the Sox realize using bullpen games in the postseason isn’t the same as counting on them in the regular season.  Hopefully they learned their downfall this past season was a complete lack of SP depth…

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, notin said:

Hopefully the Sox realize using bullpen games in the postseason isn’t the same as counting on them in the regular season.  Hopefully they learned their downfall this past season was a complete lack of SP depth…

The funny thing is Houck and Criswell were two of our depth SP'ers.

[moonslav59]

30 minutes ago, notin said:

Hopefully the Sox realize using bullpen games in the postseason isn’t the same as counting on them in the regular season.  Hopefully they learned their downfall this past season was a complete lack of SP depth…

They have to know, but I do think they felt the guys they signed would do better.

Had Gio pitched 190 IP at 4.25, we'd likely make the playoffs.  It's not like we missed by a mile.

Had we kept Sale, we make it, for sure. We kept him for 5 years, and missed by a year. We can't blame anyone but ourselves for that one.

The Kluber, Richards & Perez signings were stabs in the dark, and I guess the Wacha, Hill and maybe the Paxton signing kinda balanced them out.

The weird thing is, the year we chose right (Wacha & Hill) we still sucked.

[jdc69]

5 hours ago, notin said:

Hopefully the Sox realize using bullpen games in the postseason isn’t the same as counting on them in the regular season.  Hopefully they learned their downfall this past season was a complete lack of SP depth…

There's no doubt about it but if it weren't for some blown saves after the break, it could've been a different story at the end. Just like the offense was great but after so much pitching disappointment, it too started to falter at the end. 

[Bellhorn04]

10 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

The funny thing is Houck and Criswell were two of our depth SP'ers.

Houck was 1 of 4 contending for the 4-5 spots going into spring training, no? With none of them locks. 

1 Giolito

2 Bello

3 Pivetta

4-5 Crawford/Houck/Whitlock/Winckowski

 

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Houck was 1 of 4 contending for the 4-5 spots going into spring training, no? With none of them locks. 

1 Giolito

2 Bello

3 Pivetta

4-5 Crawford/Houck/Whitlock/Winckowski

 

Yes, and some felt he should be in the 5, especially those wanting Whitlock in the pen. I read, somewhere, that Houck was going to be the one "left out."

I know the season opening order might not have much meaning, but we started out with...

1. Bello

2. Pivetta

3. Crawford

4. Whitlock

5. Houck

I'm not trying to argue we had great SP'er depth, because we did not, but the 6th and 7th guys (Houck & Criswell) did better than the 1-5, combined. Fitts did damn good, too.

[Bellhorn04]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not trying to argue we had great SP'er depth, because we did not, but the 6th and 7th guys (Houck & Criswell) did better than the 1-5, combined. 

Well, it was kind of a motley crew.  Not one guy with really impressive credentials...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

23 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Houck was 1 of 4 contending for the 4-5 spots going into spring training, no? With none of them locks. 

1 Giolito

2 Bello

3 Pivetta

4-5 Crawford/Houck/Whitlock/Winckowski

 

Nothing personal, but every time someone posts Giolito at the top of the Red Sox' projected 2024 rotation, I still blame John Henry for lowering fan expectations...

... because threads still defend the Gio signing: 

It made sense, because he eats innings (yea, badly)

We would've made the playoffs if he didn't get hurt (by pitching the most innings, badly?)

Well, they paid him to be a Number One (bad-pitch thrower?)

But the front office was so confident in Lucas, they gave him an opt-out if he succeeds (so... if he's good enough to get market value as a true ace, we no longer need him?)

 

 

[mvp 78]

55 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Houck was 1 of 4 contending for the 4-5 spots going into spring training, no? With none of them locks. 

1 Giolito

2 Bello

3 Pivetta

4-5 Crawford/Houck/Whitlock/Winckowski

 

Wild that perennial #5 Pivetta was an automatic lock.

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Nothing personal, but every time someone posts Giolito at the top of the Red Sox' projected 2024 rotation, I still blame John Henry for lowering fan expectations...

... because threads still defend the Gio signing: 

It made sense, because he eats innings (yea, badly)

We would've made the playoffs if he didn't get hurt (by pitching the most innings, badly?)

Well, they paid him to be a Number One (bad-pitch thrower?)

But the front office was so confident in Lucas, they gave him an opt-out if he succeeds (so... if he's good enough to get market value as a true ace, we no longer need him?)

 He started off 2023 well for the CHW: 117 ERA+, 21 GS. It just ended really, really poorly with the Angels.

He was a solid pitcher from 19-21. I think there were hopes that Bailey would be able to settle him down and at least make him a respectable #2/3. I don't think anyone really saw him as a true TOTR guy. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

 He started off 2023 well for the CHW: 117 ERA+, 21 GS. It just ended really, really poorly with the Angels.

He was a solid pitcher from 19-21. I think there were hopes that Bailey would be able to settle him down and at least make him a respectable #2/3. I don't think anyone really saw him as a true TOTR guy. 

Not disagreeing with this post (but we shouldn't overlook he sucked in 2022, too). 

And we all agree Breslow and Bailey wouldn't have signed him if they didn't think they could fix him, and wouldn't have committed all that dough if he were damaged goods...

... but: Bailey stresses sweepers over heaters, and sweepers stress elbows more, and Giolito blew out his elbow in a couple of weeks after putting on the Boston uniform.

Subsequently, the Sox' rotation -- and bullpen -- never had sufficient depth to make the postseason.

[moonslav59]

47 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Nothing personal, but every time someone posts Giolito at the top of the Red Sox' projected 2024 rotation, I still blame John Henry for lowering fan expectations...

... because threads still defend the Gio signing: 

It made sense, because he eats innings (yea, badly)

We would've made the playoffs if he didn't get hurt (by pitching the most innings, badly?)

Well, they paid him to be a Number One (bad-pitch thrower?)

But the front office was so confident in Lucas, they gave him an opt-out if he succeeds (so... if he's good enough to get market value as a true ace, we no longer need him?)

 

 

I've been disgusted by our rotation since 2020.

I hate the plan of trying to continually improve our #4 or 5.

I've always been for adding to a rotation at the top (as in acquiring a #1 or #2,) almost every year.

I was not happy with the Gio signing, especially since we added nobody else, except Chase Anderson, Criswell and Uwasawa. Whe Gio went down hurt, and we did nothing, the sham was double exposed.

[Bellhorn04]

35 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Wild that perennial #5 Pivetta was an automatic lock.

A motley crew, as I say.

Things could have gone much worse than they did.  

 

[Bellhorn04]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

I've been disgusted by our rotation since 2020.

I hate the plan of trying to continually improve our #4 or 5.

A plan that's been dictated by the head penny-pincher.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

A plan that's been dictated by the head penny-pincher.

What choice does a GM/CBO have, if the boss lays down the gauntlet?

[Bellhorn04]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

What choice does a GM/CBO have, if the boss lays down the gauntlet?

Not much.  Although there were probably better choices than Story and Yoshida.

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

A plan that's been dictated by the head penny-pincher.

he's always searching for the cream of the crap.

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

What choice does a GM/CBO have, if the boss lays down the gauntlet?

Bloom did pretty much nothing with all the expiring contracts he had, and Story, and Masa  were not the best choices to spend the money he had. Bloom had all kinds of different choices.

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Not disagreeing with this post (but we shouldn't overlook he sucked in 2022, too). 

And we all agree Breslow and Bailey wouldn't have signed him if they didn't think they could fix him, and wouldn't have committed all that dough if he were damaged goods...

... but: Bailey stresses sweepers over heaters, and sweepers stress elbows more, and Giolito blew out his elbow in a couple of weeks after putting on the Boston uniform.

Subsequently, the Sox' rotation -- and bullpen -- never had sufficient depth to make the postseason.

There are no studies that show sliders or offspeed pitches cause more injuries. What probably cause more injuries is throwing at max effort over and over again.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Bloom did pretty much nothing with all the expiring contracts he had, and Story, and Masa  were not the best choices to spend the money he had. Bloom had all kinds of different choices.

Story was an uninspiring choice for sure. I don't think anyone thought he'd have the overwhelming injury issues he's had. We knew he had the arm issue that needed fixing (should have been addressed on day one), but he's had a string of bad luck injuries too. 

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Story was an uninspiring choice for sure. I don't think anyone thought he'd have the overwhelming injury issues he's had. We knew he had the arm issue that needed fixing (should have been addressed on day one), but he's had a string of bad luck injuries too. 

Bloom did not make one single move that got Sox fans excited at the time he made it.  Which is not to say that they were all bad moves by any means, some turned out to be good and even very good.

But it's basically been 5 years of Sox fans being nonplussed.

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Story was an uninspiring choice for sure. I don't think anyone thought he'd have the overwhelming injury issues he's had. We knew he had the arm issue that needed fixing (should have been addressed on day one), but he's had a string of bad luck injuries too. 

Agree on Story, but Bloom had some kind of vision on Masa to be part of the future.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

7 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Bloom did not make one single move that got Sox fans excited at the time he made it.  Which is not to say that they were all bad moves by any means, some turned out to be good and even very good.

But it's basically been 5 years of Sox fans being nonplussed.

When I see non and plus, I immediately assume that's a minus.

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Agree on Story, but Bloom had some kind of vision on Masa to be part of the future.

Masa was a HUGE swing and a miss on a guy that ended up DH only. 

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Bloom did not make one single move that got Sox fans excited at the time he made it.  Which is not to say that they were all bad moves by any means, some turned out to be good and even very good.

But it's basically been 5 years of Sox fans being nonplussed.

In order of most liked at the time of acquisition:

Devers extension

Ottavino trade

Schwarber trade

Seabold/Pivetta trade

Story signing (media really liked it)

Adam Duvall signing

[Bellhorn04]

Baseball is the only game where there is such a thing as fan interference, isn't it?  I don't remember any fan interference calls in the NFL, or NBA, or NHL.

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie handled it well.  He was really pissed about it at the time, as well he should be, the idiots could have injured him.  After the game he said it was irrelevant, he wasn't hurt, they lost the game, life goes on, end of story.

 

[notin]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Baseball is the only game where there is such a thing as fan interference, isn't it?  I don't remember any fan interference calls in the NFL, or NBA, or NHL.

When fans get involved in the NBA, you get the Malice in the Palace…

[notin]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Mookie handled it well.  He was really pissed about it at the time, as well he should be, the idiots could have injured him.  After the game he said it was irrelevant, he wasn't hurt, they lost the game, life goes on, end of story.

 

They grabbed his arm and his glove and it looked like they tried to defend their actions since he came into their area across the wall, despite replays clearly showing they leaned over.

 

Im glad they got banned after shelling out a couple grand to watch one inning of a World Series game…