Red Sox ownership

[Bellhorn04]

And that wasn't his first time working with him, Henry had a history with DD in the past in Montreal as well. They obviously had a good working relationship there for him to bring him on board in Boston, and to fire him just like that?

 

Maybe Henry is suffering from some sort of dementia.

 

That or MiserableOldPrickia.

[Bellhorn04]

Just Henry? Did anyone else from the organisation outline why he'd been fired? If nobody did, that's absurd.

 

All we really have are the rumors that DD wasn't being a team player with the rest of the FO. (mvp had a nugget that DD didn't want Sam Kennedy included in the baseball meetings.)

 

Maybe DD didn't trust their acumen very much...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

All we really have are the rumors that DD wasn't being a team player with the rest of the FO. (mvp had a nugget that DD didn't want Sam Kennedy included in the baseball meetings.)

 

Maybe DD didn't trust their acumen very much...

 

They sure proved him wrong, because 75% of the seasons of the post-Dombro Red Sox have been good enough to finish as the fifth-best team in the AL East.

 

The only thing Dombrowski did in Philadelphia is turn around a losing club, get them into the World Series the next year, and keep fandom excited with plenty of star players collected on sustained contenders.

[mvp 78]

DD said Henry never offered a single word of explanation as to why he was let go, didn't speak to him at all when he was fired or since.

 

John Henry is a bitch. Confirmed.

[notin]

And that wasn't his first time working with him, Henry had a history with DD in the past in Montreal as well. They obviously had a good working relationship there for him to bring him on board in Boston, and to fire him just like that?

 

Maybe Henry is suffering from some sort of dementia.

 

Henry and DD were together with the Marlins. His tenure in Montreal (1987-1991) was early in his career. And I’m not sure - did Henry ever own the Expos? He sold the Marlins to Expos owner Jeff Loria. But other than that deal (in 2002, 11 years after DD left Montreal) I don’t think he’s ever had any other involvement with that franchise…

[mvp 78]

All we really have are the rumors that DD wasn't being a team player with the rest of the FO. (mvp had a nugget that DD didn't want Sam Kennedy included in the baseball meetings.)

 

Maybe DD didn't trust their acumen very much...

 

It was a turd nugget.

 

I wouldn't want Sam in the meetings either.

[notin]

All we really have are the rumors that DD wasn't being a team player with the rest of the FO. (mvp had a nugget that DD didn't want Sam Kennedy included in the baseball meetings.)

 

Maybe DD didn't trust their acumen very much...

 

 

Team player or not, Henry clearly wanted to build a cheaper, more efficient team. (Halfway there!) I would be surprised if there was anything more to it.

 

Again, when Henry first bought this team, he tried to bring Billy Beane on board. Beane’s qualifications don’t include building high-priced squads. Bloom was basically just another Beane.

 

In between being rebuffed by Beane and hiring Bloom, the Sox has two internal hires and Dombrowski, who was given financial free rein for as long as it worked. Much like he did with Cherington, spending only seems to be allowed with winning.

 

But Henry clearly doesn’t want to run teams with high payrolls, and he keeps trying to bring in execs who can or will work with lower ones. If Dombrowski was one of them, he might still be here…

[Bellhorn04]

But Henry clearly doesn’t want to run teams with high payrolls, and he keeps trying to bring in execs who can or will work with lower ones. If Dombrowski was one of them, he might still be here…

 

Seems a tad contradictory, because Dombrowski was obviously hired to spend, trade, and win it all. Mission accomplished...and...fired.

 

As for Bloom, he was hired to build the farm, trim the payroll, and keep the team somewhat competitive. Mission accomplished...and...fired.

 

Henry is basically a serial ax murderer at this point.

[Elktonnick]

Seems a tad contradictory, because Dombrowski was obviously hired to spend, trade, and win it all. Mission accomplished...and...fired.

 

As for Bloom, he was hired to build the farm, trim the payroll, and keep the team somewhat competitive. Mission accomplished...and...fired.

 

Henry is basically a serial ax murderer at this point.

Don't you think your last comment is a bit over the top and libelous.

[Bellhorn04]

Don't you think your last comment is a bit over the top and libelous.

 

Comic exaggeration. I don't really think Henry is homicidal.

[mvp 78]

Seems a tad contradictory, because Dombrowski was obviously hired to spend, trade, and win it all. Mission accomplished...and...fired.

 

As for Bloom, he was hired to build the farm, trim the payroll, and keep the team somewhat competitive. Mission accomplished...and...fired.

 

Henry is basically a serial ax murderer at this point.

 

Bloom could have kept his job if he stayed under the CBT in '22 and didn't hem and haw the way he did over trades in '22 and '23. There were some other behind the scenes stuff that Henry may have been made aware of that caused him to move on from Bloom too.

[mvp 78]

Don't you think your last comment is a bit over the top and libelous.

 

Hell to the naw naw naw. I've been calling him Vlad Dracul for years.

[mvp 78]

Comic exaggeration. I don't really think Henry is homicidal.

 

Bell is in the tank for ownership. Confirmed.

[Old Red]

Bloom could have kept his job if he stayed under the CBT in '22 and didn't hem and haw the way he did over trades in '22 and '23. There were some other behind the scenes stuff that Henry may have been made aware of that caused him to move on from Bloom too.

 

I don’t think Cora, and Bloom get along all that well either, and that had something to do with Bloom going boom.

[Dipre]

I don't get people's obsession with Cora. He's just the manager, he doesn't have that much pull.

[Old Red]

I don't get people's obsession with Cora. He's just the manager, he doesn't have that much pull.

 

The way he said he was safe after Bloom got fired, and it sounds like Cora was offered some sort of FO job, so I think he has more pull than some think.

[mvp 78]

I don't get people's obsession with Cora. He's just the manager, he doesn't have that much pull.

 

He's a pretty good manager.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think Cora, and Bloom get along all that well either, and that had something to do with Bloom going boom.

 

The manager and CBO should get along. The CBO was sucking s***. Easy to choose which one to side with.

[Dipre]

The manager and CBO should get along. The CBO was sucking s***. Easy to choose which one to side with.

 

I think this is the main point.

[Hugh2]

Henry and DD were together with the Marlins. His tenure in Montreal (1987-1991) was early in his career. And I’m not sure - did Henry ever own the Expos? He sold the Marlins to Expos owner Jeff Loria. But other than that deal (in 2002, 11 years after DD left Montreal) I don’t think he’s ever had any other involvement with that franchise…

 

I could have sworn I wrote FLorida, that's what I meant to type at least. DD has a track record in both Montreal and there.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't get people's obsession with Cora. He's just the manager, he doesn't have that much pull.

 

Ownership reportedly thinks highly of him.

 

But the really interesting thing was Cora's comments about how Sox fans don't care about the rating of the farm system, they care about playing in October. His comments seemed part and parcel of the 'full throttle' promise. There was also lots of speculation that he's destined for a front office job at some point.

[mvp 78]

Ownership reportedly thinks highly of him.

 

But the really interesting thing was Cora's comments about how Sox fans don't care about the rating of the farm system, they care about playing in October. His comments seemed part and parcel of the 'full throttle' promise. There was also lots of speculation that he's destined for a front office job at some point.

 

He'll make more $$$ as field manager. I don't see him moving at this point. I only see him moving to another org this offseason.

[moonslav59]

Yes, it's why I don't entirely blame DD for the state of the system when Bloom took over.

 

The penalty season didn't help, either.

 

The fact that most of the prospects DD traded away did not amount to much, doesn't change the fact that we saw very little impactful farm infusion after Devers in the summer of 2017- all the way to Casas/Bello.

 

It is very hard for any team to win with basically, just Houck added in a 5 year stretch.

[Bellhorn04]

The penalty season didn't help, either.

 

The fact that most of the prospects DD traded away did not amount to much, doesn't change the fact that we saw very little impactful farm infusion after Devers in the summer of 2017- all the way to Casas/Bello.

 

It is very hard for any team to win with basically, just Houck added in a 5 year stretch.

 

But if they spent more and/or spent better the last few years they could have made the playoffs in 21, 22 and 23.

 

If not, why fire Bloom?

[Hitch]

But if they spent more and/or spent better the last few years they could have made the playoffs in 21, 22 and 23.

 

If not, why fire Bloom?

 

I remember (rightly so) there being a lot of anger and bemusement about how Bloom handled the '22 deadline, leaving the team just over the 1st limit. Which cost us in our comp pick.

 

The fact he repeated the mistake of being neither here nor there in '23 deadline as well probably did for him as much as anything.

 

It's one thing having a strategy for how you want to club to operate, you still need to have a person not fumbling things to pull it off.

[notin]

I remember (rightly so) there being a lot of anger and bemusement about how Bloom handled the '22 deadline, leaving the team just over the 1st limit. Which cost us in our comp pick.

 

The fact he repeated the mistake of being neither here nor there in '23 deadline as well probably did for him as much as anything.

 

It's one thing having a strategy for how you want to club to operate, you still need to have a person not fumbling things to pull it off.

 

If Bloom didn’t get fired for mishandling the last two deadlines, then the Sox should fire whoever didn’t fite him for that and instead appears to have fired Bloom for something else…

[moonslav59]

But if they spent more and/or spent better the last few years they could have made the playoffs in 21, 22 and 23.

 

If not, why fire Bloom?

 

I've answered this, but here is my take, again.

 

1. Bloom is the scapegoat.

2. Bloom did very poorly with his largest expenditures. (Like Ben with Pablo & HRam)

3. The mandate was build the farm while staying competitive. (We were in just 1 of 3 seasons: 2021.)

 

JH is hoping Brez can do better on bigger ticket items.

 

Bloom's largest 10 expenditures:

 

1. $300M+ on Devers (unknown results)

2. $140M on Story (2 years in- bad results)

3. $100M+ on Yoshida (1 year in- unknown results, but one poster thinks it's a failure.)

4. $32M Jansen (2 yrs) looks good

5. $24M Barnes (2 yr extension)- horrible

6. $24M Kike (3 yrs)- good 2021- horrible next 2 yrs

7. $17.5M Martin (2 yrs) looks good

8. $11M M Perez (2 yrs) ho-hum

9. $10M Richards (1)- bad

10. $10M Kluber (1)- bad

 

It is not hard to think any FO would expect better than this. To me, this is almost totally the reason Bloom was replaced by Brez.

 

Can anyone say, for sure, that if Bloom was given an extra $10-15M, each winter, he'd have spent it wisely?

 

Sure, a couple what ifs like Eflin and bringing Nate back would have helped, but some other "near misses" were thankful ones.

 

[Hitch]

Yeah, Bloom wasn't a scapegoat.

 

He just failed at too many things within his remit. Simple as that.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, Bloom wasn't a scapegoat.

 

He just failed at too many things within his remit. Simple as that.

 

I think he was scapegoated for the failings of ownership, but his firing was justified.

[moonslav59]

I think he was scapegoated for the failings of ownership, but his firing was justified.

 

Yup.

 

While the budget was an issue, especially in 2020, Bloom did spend a lot of money, and most of his top 10 signings were not good ones.

 

That's on him.