Red Sox ownership

[Bellhorn04]

Happy to be proven wrong but I've seen no reports saying ownership is barring him from trading any of the top 3. Every report I've seen is saying Breslow isn't keen.

 

We'll see how limited he is in the coming months. It's all guesswork outside of it looks like he has a budget to work to. And even then, no concrete proof is available right now.

 

Well, if they don't add a legit starting pitcher by Opening Day, this offseason has to be deemed a colossal failure by someone.

[Old Red]

Well, if they don't add a legit starting pitcher by Opening Day, this offseason has to be deemed a colossal failure by someone.

 

Reports, reports, reports. How many reports were out there about the Mookie situation? How many reports were out there about the Bloom situation from Bloom wasn’t told he had to trade Mookie by JH to Bloom had a chance to trade Sale, and his salary too, and didn’t do it. Who knows what Bres has been told he can do, and how much money he can spend. You kind of have to go by what unfolds, and the results, and so far the results haven’t been very good.

[moonslav59]

Well, if they don't add a legit starting pitcher by Opening Day, this offseason has to be deemed a colossal failure by someone.

 

It's not happening, unless this is some sort of Story, come to Jesus moment by the front office.

 

Giolito. LMAO!

 

I like the Grissom, Fitts and Campbell additions. They fit better into "Rays' Way."

 

They can't even do that right.

 

[Hitch]

It's not happening, unless this is some sort of Story, come to Jesus moment by the front office.

 

Giolito. LMAO!

 

I like the Grissom, Fitts and Campbell additions. They fit better into "Rays' Way."

 

They can't even do that right.

 

 

No starter whatsoever? We'll go with what we have now?

[mvp 78]

What makes anyone think Breslow will be able to do what a decade of sox GM work has been unable to do in rebuilding the MiLB pitching depth

 

He was put in charge of the Cubs horrible pitching system and did a really good job there turning it around.

[mvp 78]

I think it would be quite obvious that having a far more intimate understanding of players and the game and it's nuances would help CBO's identify different things that simple analysts won't. Breslow is clearly very smart. The added actual baseball knowledge certainly won't hurt. But this is beside the point, I was pointing out how different the life experiences Breslow and Bloom have had after Yale and that lumping them together is the kind of lazy crap you see off some of our more excitable posters.

 

On your last point. I don't disagree. As I mentioned yesterday it was clear Werner just spoke out of turn and got too excited. I don't know why it's still being talked about. In terms of having a lesser pool to pick from. I think this the direct result of two things:

 

- Ownership bringing in DD to go big and win, which he did, then sack him; bringing in Bloom to rebuild the farm, trade Mookie and do everything on a budget, which he did, then sack him.

- The looming presence of Cora and his interest in the front office.

 

Point 2 would be a concern. Point 1 would be enough for most sensible people to say 'no thanks'.

 

They seem to want to try the Bloom experiment again (and go back to type) but this time with a man who isn't beset with doubts about his own decisions.

 

Ah ring-a-ding-ding. They liked the direction. They didn't like how Bloom was not executing certain things.

[mvp 78]

But they apparently aren't letting Breslow spend much this offseason or letting him trade one of the top 3 prospects. So he's very limited in what he can do. It's ownership that's the problem. Changing CBO's won't change that.

 

Not sure it's ownership preventing the trade. If I was CBO, I'd be holding onto Teel and Anthony too. Maybe Mayer as well considering the high cost of SS's right now.

 

I think most every other prospect should be on the table.

[mvp 78]

Well, if they don't add a legit starting pitcher by Opening Day, this offseason has to be deemed a colossal failure by someone.

 

If Henry is ok with it, then Crag has done a good job by the person signing his check.

 

Werner may have said full throttle, but he also said there was a commitment to be competitive and Sam talked about the "aim" being a World Series. It's clear that this is not the aim this year by any means.

[Hugh2]

If I was a CBO I would be dreaming about a lineup with

 

Teel

Casas

Grissom

Mayer

Devers

Anthony

 

in it and then using the my top prospects of that point in time to trade for a #1 pitcher.

 

I know, I know, no one wants to hear about a 3 year plan. Certainly after the last guys plan failed.

[mvp 78]

Giolito. LMAO!

 

 

Giolito bounceback season confirmed!

[mvp 78]

No starter whatsoever? We'll go with what we have now?

 

They still need to add someone so that Houck can be in the pen. I think they want to move Jansen and sign another starter. Which one? IDK.

 

I bet we hear they just missed out on Monty and sign Clevinger or Paxton.

[mvp 78]

If I was a CBO I would be dreaming about a lineup with

 

Teel

Casas

Grissom

Mayer

Devers

Anthony

 

in it and then using the my top prospects of that point in time to trade for a #1 pitcher.

 

I know, I know, no one wants to hear about a 3 year plan. Certainly after the last guys plan failed.

 

IDK, Orioles got pretty good with a bunch of rookie and sophomore seasons.

[Hugh2]

IDK, Orioles got pretty good with a bunch of rookie and sophomore seasons.

 

It certainly is possible guys on that list take off and break into the majors and are productive this year. So it's probably more of a 1.5-2 year plan.

 

Still, if you liked a pitcher in this years class, go out and get them a year early. Maybe they didn't.

[mvp 78]

It certainly is possible guys on that list take off and break into the majors and are productive this year. So it's probably more of a 1.5-2 year plan.

 

Still, if you liked a pitcher in this years class, go out and get them a year early. Maybe they didn't.

 

Monty seems like a safe bet to give consistent innings, but at the price he could get would be probably too much. I get passing. Pitching on the open market will always be at a premium though.

[Hugh2]

Monty seems like a safe bet to give consistent innings, but at the price he could get would be probably too much. I get passing. Pitching on the open market will always be at a premium though.

 

Boras rarely screws up free agency, so in the unlikely event the price tags for these guys come down I'd be very happy with SNell or Montgomery. I just think it would be a very bad bet to spend $200/$150 million on them.

 

SNell reportedly wants $230 million, just turned down $150 million from the Yankees. Boras obviously knows his market a lot better than I do, but it seems like a lot of their suitors have been signing and trading for other guys.

[notin]

If I was a CBO I would be dreaming about a lineup with

 

Teel

Casas

Grissom

Mayer

Devers

Anthony

 

in it and then using the my top prospects of that point in time to trade for a #1 pitcher.

 

I know, I know, no one wants to hear about a 3 year plan. Certainly after the last guys plan failed.

 

Since that could be the lineup as soon as next season, why not Bleis (presumably the top prospect left) for a SP?

[mvp 78]

Boras rarely screws up free agency, so in the unlikely event the price tags for these guys come down I'd be very happy with SNell or Montgomery. I just think it would be a very bad bet to spend $200/$150 million on them.

 

SNell reportedly wants $230 million, just turned down $150 million from the Yankees. Boras obviously knows his market a lot better than I do, but it seems like a lot of their suitors have been signing and trading for other guys.

 

Snell must have an offer he's sitting on larger than the Yanks. Mariners?

 

Monty is looking to cash in on his career year and will hold out as long as it takes.

[mvp 78]

Since that could be the lineup as soon as next season, why not Bleis (presumably the top prospect left) for a SP?

 

Bleis isn't going to bring much back coming off an injury year and being years away from making the MLB.

[Hugh2]

Since that could be the lineup as soon as next season, why not Bleis (presumably the top prospect left) for a SP?

 

Value trends can go either way, but Bleis would be a lot more valuable if he was in the upper minors. Teams have been looking for close to MLB talent in high end trades in recent years. A guy like Anthony would be much more valuable than a guy like Bleis, who could reach that teir of value if he has a good year this year.

[notin]

Value trends can go either way, but Bleis would be a lot more valuable if he was in the upper minors. Teams have been looking for close to MLB talent in high end trades in recent years. A guy like Anthony would be much more valuable than a guy like Bleis, who could reach that teir of value if he has a good year this year.

 

Or that could easily go the other way. Bleis could falter and plummet. Nick Yorke looked like a stud in A ball, too…

[mvp 78]

Or that could easily go the other way. Bleis could falter and plummet. Nick Yorke looked like a stud in A ball, too…

 

Which is why other orgs wouldn't want to trade for Bleis right now.

[notin]

Which is why other orgs wouldn't want to trade for Bleis right now.

 

Also possible. Depends on the level of faith they have in him. Hey sometimes “buy early” = “buy low”….

[mvp 78]

Also possible. Depends on the level of faith they have in him. Hey sometimes “buy early” = “buy low”….

 

"Buy low" so what kind of pitcher would the Sox get back exactly?

 

Per BTV!

 

Edward Cabrera

Blackburn & Boyle

Wicks

Castillo

Pepiot

Ober/Varland

Cole

 

Granted, there's no chance some of those trades would happen (Castillo/Cole).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I can't trade Miguel Bleis this year. When your team is an annual cellar dweller, you don't give away the one guy in the entire system that some scouts or media say has five-tool potential.

 

Have to give a franchise-altering impact player a chance to develop, especially after missing almost a whole season with injury.

 

And until Bleis shows he's back on track, no other club is going to be willing to swap anyone with top of the rotation promise for him -- and that's the only return that can justify a deal.

[moonslav59]

I can't trade Miguel Bleis this year. When your team is an annual cellar dweller, you don't give away the one guy in the entire system that some scouts or media say has five-tool potential.

 

Have to give a franchise-altering impact player a chance to develop, especially after missing almost a whole season with injury.

 

And until Bleis shows he's back on track, no other club is going to be willing to swap anyone with top of the rotation promise for him -- and that's the only return that can justify a deal.

 

Agreed. I think we have to roll the dice and hope Bleis shows some value, this season.

 

To me, I'm not even sure trading for a 3 year pitcher is worth it, unless the plan is to spend more in 1-2 years.

 

I'd look for 4-6 year pitchers or punt on the idea, for now.

 

Trading Jansen (or Yoshida) to make budget room for Monty would be okay with me, but it's kind of a waste, if we don't build support around him during his first 2-3 years.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure how much other GMs value these guys on the Sox, but to me, these are the ones I'd look to deal for a pitcher with 4+ years of team control:

 

BTV Values

34 Duran (I can see why many do not want to deal him away.)

24 Crawford (seems counterintuitive to trade a promising young pitcher)

22 Houck (I'd rather trade Houck than Crawford, right now.)

22 Bleis (Would likely be trading at a low point in his value)

13 Yorke (Top of my trade list)

10 Schreiber

9 Pivetta (unless we can extend him)

6 Wikelman & O'Neill (deadline)

4 Walter

8.1 EValdez

3 Yoshida

2 McGuire

0 Martin (deadline?)

-2 Jansen

-66 Story

 

I would strongly avoid trading:

51 Casas

45 Mayer

42 Anthony

18 Teel

17 Grissom

12 Rafaela (Would consider trading him, if we keep Duran and get a solid SP.)

9 Winckowski

8 Abreu

7 Cespedes

4 Romero (let him try to build back value), Perales & Zanetello

 

[notin]

I can't trade Miguel Bleis this year. When your team is an annual cellar dweller, you don't give away the one guy in the entire system that some scouts or media say has five-tool potential.

 

Have to give a franchise-altering impact player a chance to develop, especially after missing almost a whole season with injury.

 

And until Bleis shows he's back on track, no other club is going to be willing to swap anyone with top of the rotation promise for him -- and that's the only return that can justify a deal.

 

 

No. It could always be justified by the end result.

 

For example, the Sox traded one of their best young pitching prospects in years in Anderson Espinoza for a solid yet unspectacular swingman in Drew Pomeranz. At the time, it certainly looked questionable. But in the long run, was that a good trade for Boston or not?

[Hitch]

If I was a CBO I would be dreaming about a lineup with

 

Teel

Casas

Grissom

Mayer

Devers

Anthony

 

in it and then using the my top prospects of that point in time to trade for a #1 pitcher.

 

I know, I know, no one wants to hear about a 3 year plan. Certainly after the last guys plan failed.

 

 

Yup. That's a very exciting core.

[moonslav59]

Yup. That's a very exciting core.

 

And, along with those 6, these players will be here for the next 4 years:

Duran

Story

Yoshida

Wong

Rafaela

Abreu

 

That's 12 everyday players/prospects to come up with 9 starters.

 

C: Teel, Wong

1B: Casas

2B: Grissom (Story)

SS: Story, Mayer

3B: Devers

LF: Duran

CF: Anthony (Bleis)

RF: Rafaela, Abreu

DH: Yoshida (EVladez/Yorke)

 

Fringe promises:

2B/DH: EValdez, Yorke

3B: Meidroth, A Anderson

SS: Romero, Zanetello, Cespedes

OF: Bleis, Castro, Rosier, Yuten, Riemer

C: Jo Garcia, Hickey

 

It's the pitching the has holes and projects to have more holes.

1B/DH: Dalbec, Jordan, Kavadas, K Campbell

Edited January 15, 2024 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No. It could always be justified by the end result.

 

For example, the Sox traded one of their best young pitching prospects in years in Anderson Espinoza for a solid yet unspectacular swingman in Drew Pomeranz. At the time, it certainly looked questionable. But in the long run, was that a good trade for Boston or not?

 

I've posted before how I was horrified when Dombro dealt the system's #1 pitching prospect -- but of course he never made it, and Pomeranz was a key guy for the '17 division champs.

 

A few points: Espinoza was the first "next Pedro" but those Sox were fighting for first place and going for it. So that trade was more reasonable for a contender than a club that say, finished dead fifth in 75% of the last four seasons, swapping their best all-around positional everyday prospect; that Dombro deal, in retrospect, was also a prime example of how overrated the narrative was that he razed the farm... or how astute he was in knowing which guys to keep and which to sell high.