Red Sox ownership

[Hitch]

Sonny Gray gets no respect. I think his $75 million deal looks pretty good, and E-Rod's $80 million deal isn't bad either. These are guys who have put up multiple 3-4 WAR seasons at prices that should be well within the Sox financial means.

 

I suspect that when Snell and Montgomery sign we'll probably say they got overpaid, and not by us.

 

It's not just this one offseason that's concerning. The Giolito contract is the biggest one they've given to a starting pitcher since Eovaldi in 2019.

 

Sonny Gray maybe. E-Rod was never coming back here for other reasons.

 

I don't particularly crave either Montgomerie or Snell to be honest. I very much hope our next starting pitching upgrade is through trade.

[Bellhorn04]

Sonny Gray maybe. E-Rod was never coming back here for other reasons.

 

I don't particularly crave either Montgomerie or Snell to be honest. I very much hope our next starting pitching upgrade is through trade.

 

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want Montgomery. He was one of the best pitchers in baseball last year. He seems like a Jon Lester type to me. Oh well, he's a non-issue as far as we're concerned.

 

What trade targets do you have in mind?

[Old Red]

I get why people are pissed at ownership and will be even more so if we're well below the first tax, but let's see where we end up. There's very little other clubs have done I would have wished we had instead. Send a boatload of prospects for 1 year of Soto? Nope. Sign Ohtani to that deal? Nope. Even the Yamamoto one is a huge risk for a guy that has bever pitched in the MLB. It's been well established his contract got out of control at the end. I could have swallowed the risk, but I'm hardly annoyed at them for not going 350m or something. That looked likely to be an only Dodgers thing after Ohtani signed, anyways.

 

The quotes about needing to free up more payroll are concerning, but it's coming from agents, so let's not take it as automatic gospel. Let's see where we are in a month.

 

We have no choice, but to wait, and see where we are in a month. I’ve been as patient as anyone not, because I think the Red Sox are on the right path back, and have confidence they can get there, but because I didn’t think they would sign any of the top high priced FA anyway. When the Red Sox showed up with that incentive laden contract offer to the Yam Man I hope it was just for show, because if it wasn’t it shows how out of touch, and incompetent they are to think that offer would get it done going against the likes of the Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers. I’m still waiting for more trades, so let’s see what Bres can come up with.🤫

[Old Red]

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want Montgomery. He was one of the best pitchers in baseball last year. He seems like a Jon Lester type to me. Oh well, he's a non-issue as far as we're concerned.

 

What trade targets do you have in mind?

I’ve always said Monty would make the rotation better, but I just can’t see the Red Sox going for the length, and money of the contract it would take to get him.

[Bellhorn04]

I’ve always said Monty would make the rotation better, but I just can’t see the Red Sox going for the length, and money of the contract it would take to get him.

 

Yeah, if they won't shell out for Gray or E-Rod, it's pretty unlikely they're going to pay Montgomery.

 

All we can do now is hope for a blockbuster trade, I guess.

[Hitch]

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want Montgomery. He was one of the best pitchers in baseball last year. He seems like a Jon Lester type to me. Oh well, he's a non-issue as far as we're concerned.

 

What trade targets do you have in mind?

 

I like Monty, I just think his contract is going to get stupid expensive. If we can get him at even a slight overpay, all good by me. I just don't think it's going to be a reasonable contract. If it is we should definitely be involved.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sonny Gray gets no respect. I think his $75 million deal looks pretty good, and E-Rod's $80 million deal isn't bad either. These are guys who have put up multiple 3-4 WAR seasons at prices that should be well within the Sox financial means.

 

I suspect that when Snell and Montgomery sign we'll probably say they got overpaid, and not by us.

 

It's not just this one offseason that's concerning. The Giolito contract is the biggest one they've given to a starting pitcher since Eovaldi in 2019.

 

And the opt out means that if Gio has a good comeback season -- like the Red Sox expect -- then he'll be back in the free agent market next winter... and Boston will only have to pay half of his current contract.

 

Hmmmm...

[Old Red]

Yeah, if they won't shell out for Gray or E-Rod, it's pretty unlikely they're going to pay Montgomery.

 

All we can do now is hope for a blockbuster trade, I guess.

 

That’s what I have thought right along on the blockbuster trad option, but I’m not as confident now as I was before FA season started.

[Hitch]

We have no choice, but to wait, and see where we are in a month. I’ve been as patient as anyone not, because I think the Red Sox are on the right path back, and have confidence they can get there, but because I didn’t think they would sign any of the top high priced FA anyway. When the Red Sox showed up with that incentive laden contract offer to the Yam Man I hope it was just for show, because if it wasn’t it shows how out of touch, and incompetent they are to think that offer would get it done going against the likes of the Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers. I’m still waiting for more trades, so let’s see what Bres can come up with.

 

What were the details of the incentive based contract for Yamamoto? I don't know if I missed it or if the holiday alcohol is stripping my memory but I don't know the details of that.

[Old Red]

What were the details of the incentive based contract for Yamamoto? I don't know if I missed it or if the holiday alcohol is stripping my memory but I don't know the details of that.

I don’t know the details, and I should have said the Reported incentive laden contract offer.

[Hitch]

And the opt out means that if Gio has a good comeback season -- like the Red Sox expect -- then he'll be back in the free agent market next winter... and Boston will only have to pay half of his current contract.

 

Hmmmm...

 

This is where I think everything is viewed through the annoyance of past behaviour by ownership. That was a good deal for me. We don't really know what we have with him right now, so I think a short term contract was the best bet.

 

Not a criticism, again, totally understand why most things are being viewed with suspicion.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This is where I think everything is viewed through the annoyance of past behaviour by ownership. That was a good deal for me. We don't really know what we have with him right now, so I think a short term contract was the best bet.

 

Not a criticism, again, totally understand why most things are being viewed with suspicion.

 

How can I not be suspicious of the Giolito signing? He used to be good, but for the past two seasons he has not been good.

 

The only sure thing with him is durability: start 30 games, throw 175 innings. If he still leads the league in giving up bombs the next two years, at least the Red Sox will have fielded a team for paying customers to watch.

 

That may be our worst-case scenario, but for all we know about the Committee running the front office that analyzes everything, it may be their most-confident scenario.

[Dipre]

We don't know with certainty that it was all for show.

 

But it seems abundantly obvious the Red Sox were not serious players for Yamamoto in any way, shape or form.

 

Presumably.

[Dipre]

That may be true but people said exactly what you are saying in past offseasons and we all saw the results. One can hardly blame fans for being skeptcal

 

Which is why we can evaluate past offseasons as a whole, but not this one.

[Bellhorn04]

Presumably.

 

Like I said earlier, we'll get the actual details on our offer to Yamamoto...

 

right after we get the details on our last offer to Mookie.

[Randy Red Sox]

Which is why we can evaluate past offseasons as a whole, but not this one.

 

Because we have seen nothing to the contrary even this offseason to date.

Edited January 1, 2024 by Randy Red Sox

[Old Red]

Like I said earlier, we'll get the actual details on our offer to Yamamoto...

 

right after we get the details on our last offer to Mookie.

 

Exactly, and that hasn’t happened yet either. Top secret classification.🤫

[Jasonbay44]

Liverpool are a serious candidate in the race to sign superstar Kylian Mbappé, per @GFFN. A deal would cost several hundreds of millions.

 

The Red Sox have reportedly had mandates to stay under the luxury tax while FSG invests billions into Liverpool, the Penguins, and the PGA.

 

Thank God!

[Bellhorn04]

Liverpool are a serious candidate in the race to sign superstar Kylian Mbappé, per @GFFN. A deal would cost several hundreds of millions.

 

The Red Sox have reportedly had mandates to stay under the luxury tax while FSG invests billions into Liverpool, the Penguins, and the PGA.

 

Thank God!

 

Yep, the Red Sox are now a division of a conglomerate.

[Hitch]

Liverpool are a serious candidate in the race to sign superstar Kylian Mbappé, per @GFFN. A deal would cost several hundreds of millions.

 

The Red Sox have reportedly had mandates to stay under the luxury tax while FSG invests billions into Liverpool, the Penguins, and the PGA.

 

Thank God!

 

 

Liverpool are NOT serious contenders for this guy. It's clickbait shite. Liverpool operate financially within their incomings. FSG are not taking money from the Sox to put in Liverpool. The mount of disinformation and rubbish people are using to back up POV is out of control at the moment.

[Hitch]

How can I not be suspicious of the Giolito signing? He used to be good, but for the past two seasons he has not been good.

 

The only sure thing with him is durability: start 30 games, throw 175 innings. If he still leads the league in giving up bombs the next two years, at least the Red Sox will have fielded a team for paying customers to watch.

 

That may be our worst-case scenario, but for all we know about the Committee running the front office that analyzes everything, it may be their most-confident scenario.

 

So you're calling them cheap for the possibility of the opt out and only paying half his contract, but also think he's not very good/a risk?

 

You can't have it both ways when looking to attack management over his deal.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So you're calling them cheap for the possibility of the opt out and only paying half his contract, but also think he's not very good/a risk?

 

You can't have it both ways when looking to attack management over his deal.

 

Lots of assumptions you make using words I never posted.

 

Do you find it unsettling at all that if Giolito is bad enough to not opt out and cash in, that he gets to return for another year in Boston -- and that the Red Sox are perfectly ok with that?

[Hitch]

Lots of assumptions you make using words I never posted.

 

Do you find it unsettling at all that if Giolito is bad enough to not opt out and cash in, that he gets to return for another year in Boston -- and that the Red Sox are perfectly ok with that?

 

Well, feel free to use your words to clear up why you responded to Bells post about how cheap they are with a point about how we'll only have to pay half if he does as well as they expect. The insinuation seems pretty clear, no?

 

Unsettling? No, why would I? He was getting projected for a 4 year deal. I didn't particularly want him at all, but if he's here, I'm sure glad it's only a 2 year deal, max. If he pitches well enough to opt out, great.

[cp176]

I have never really been a big fan of John Henry. To me, he just does not come off as a likable guy. He surely has to get credit for breaking the curse and the four championships. But in the random, crapshoot world of post season baseball , you have to get the big breaks at the big moment. Other owners came close to winning it all, but the big plays always seemed to go against them. There is nothing an owner can do about it at that point. He gets credit for creating a nice atmosphere outside of Fenway, but he did that with some pretty shabby treatment of vendors who worked there for years. He has every right to limit his spending on the team, but then he will raise ticket and concession prices at the same time. A very bad look for the average fan. All in all, it certainly was great to finally beat the Yankees and the National League champs and break the long curse. But I just don't much care for John Henry. It wouldn't bother me a bit if he sold.

 

This is pretty much exactly how I feel!

[Hitch]

You don't get many billionaires that are nice people, too.

 

The worry if they sold was - who buys? That's a wack of cash, and we've see how s*** some other owners are. The Premier League in England has seen teams bought up by gulf regimes looking to sports wash. It sucks.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Well, feel free to use your words to clear up why you responded to Bells post about how cheap they are with a point about how we'll only have to pay half if he does as well as they expect. The insinuation seems pretty clear, no?

 

Unsettling? No, why would I? He was getting projected for a 4 year deal. I didn't particularly want him at all, but if he's here, I'm sure glad it's only a 2 year deal, max. If he pitches well enough to opt out, great.

 

I didn't want him, either. Adding Giolito to the rotation for one good year, or one or two bad ones, stabilizes nothing -- it just puts us right back into the Bloom Era of 1-year/$10M fill-ins (only now the fair market price has nearly doubled).

 

If he's a #4, though -- which means Brez makes a big trade for a starter, and/or signs the likes of Montgomery/Imanaga/Stroman -- then it almost makes sense.

 

But replacing Sale with Giolito isn't much improvement. In fact, they were equal with 1.7 WAR last year, and that's after Gio threw almost twice as many innings... (his big strength, which saves the bullpen, but also offers more Bearclaw games if he's '23 ineffective).

[moonslav59]

Sonny Gray gets no respect. I think his $75 million deal looks pretty good, and E-Rod's $80 million deal isn't bad either. These are guys who have put up multiple 3-4 WAR seasons at prices that should be well within the Sox financial means.

 

I suspect that when Snell and Montgomery sign we'll probably say they got overpaid, and not by us.

 

It's not just this one offseason that's concerning. The Giolito contract is the biggest one they've given to a starting pitcher since Eovaldi in 2019.

 

Very concerning, and the Nate signing was not really adding any new pitcher from the previous season. In that respect, Giolito is the highest paid, out-of system FA pitcher signing since Price.

 

(Porcello and Sale were extensions, after we traded for them.)

 

When you couple this with no drafting or developing young pitchers very well, until maybe recently, it's no wonder our rotation looks like a list of 7-8 guys with question marks hanging from their necks.

[Randy Red Sox]

This is pretty much exactly how I feel!

 

 

I think a lot of fans feel the same

[moonslav59]

I didn't want him, either. Adding Giolito to the rotation for one good year, or one or two bad ones, stabilizes nothing -- it just puts us right back into the Bloom Era of 1-year/$10M fill-ins (only now the fair market price has nearly doubled).

 

If he's a #4, though -- which means Brez makes a big trade for a starter, and/or signs the likes of Montgomery/Imanaga/Stroman -- then it almost makes sense.

 

But replacing Sale with Giolito isn't much improvement. In fact, they were equal with 1.7 WAR last year, and that's after Gio threw almost twice as many innings... (his big strength, which saves the bullpen, but also offers more Bearclaw games if he's '23 ineffective).

 

Agreed.

 

It's great having a guy who takes the ball very 5 days, but is a 5 man rotation of Giolito's and Pivetta's getting us closer to respect?

 

That being said, I can see the chances a decent plus. Grissom could be the 2Bman we have been looking for. If we end up spending the Sale "savings." wisely, maybe we can see very nice gain from this trade.

 

Putting lost FAs aside, here is the net change:

 

Lost: Sale, Dugo, Urias (Drohan, RFern, N Robertson)

 

Gained: Giolito, O'Neill, Grissom, Campbell, Slaten, Fitts, Weisert

 

Looks again, like more quantity than quality and hoping these guys do well.

 

[Randy Red Sox]

Very concerning, and the Nate signing was not really adding any new pitcher from the previous season. In that respect, Giolito is the highest paid, out-of system FA pitcher signing since Price.

 

(Porcello and Sale were extensions, after we traded for them.)

 

When you couple this with no drafting or developing young pitchers very well, until maybe recently, it's no wonder our rotation looks like a list of 7-8 guys with question marks hanging from their necks.

 

And yet no one has come up with a reasonable solution as to how to solve the overall pitching weakness with the Sox other than to keep drafting the best SS in the 1st rd every year in the hopes he can be flipped for a top P prospect because that has worked so well for us.