Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[moonslav59]

I think moon's old theory that TJ surgery was baked right into Sale's extension is a pretty reasonable one. It was all the other injuries that really killed this one.

 

And yet I still hope for 2 more seasons of Sale. (Vesting option would bring him back for 2025.)

 

If Sale was Chis Freakin’ Sale, $145M/4 would have been an acceptable deal.

 

Instead, we got freakin’ Chis Sale.

[notin]

If Sale was Chis Freakin’ Sale, $145M/4 would have been an acceptable deal.

 

Instead, we got freakin’ Chis Sale.

 

I don’t think they anticipated the TJ surgery into his deal.

 

Usually those recovery deals are two years, and probably for good reason. Baking in a TJ into a 5 year deal would be insane. Since a TJ surgery typically goes 600IP / 3 years before the next TJ, the length of that deal could include TWO lost seasons.

 

Is $145/3 a good deal for Chris Freakin Sale?

 

The simplest and therefore most likely answer is akin to what 5Gold said - they hoped he could recover and struck early because he was cheaper….

[moonslav59]

I don’t think they anticipated the TJ surgery into his deal.

 

Usually those recovery deals are two years, and probably for good reason. Baking in a TJ into a 5 year deal would be insane. Since a TJ surgery typically goes 600IP / 3 years before the next TJ, the length of that deal could include TWO lost seasons.

 

Is $145/3 a good deal for Chris Freakin Sale?

 

The simplest and therefore most likely answer is akin to what 5Gold said - they hoped he could recover and struck early because he was cheaper….

 

In todays dollars $145/3 for Cy Young Sale is close, but I disagree on 2 full years of recovery, unless the surgery was on April 1st, maybe.

[Old Red]

I don’t think they anticipated the TJ surgery into his deal.

 

Usually those recovery deals are two years, and probably for good reason. Baking in a TJ into a 5 year deal would be insane. Since a TJ surgery typically goes 600IP / 3 years before the next TJ, the length of that deal could include TWO lost seasons.

 

Is $145/3 a good deal for Chris Freakin Sale?

 

The simplest and therefore most likely answer is akin to what 5Gold said - they hoped he could recover and struck early because he was cheaper….

 

It was pretty much anticipated, and speculated that Sale was going to need TJ just like it was pretty much speculated that Story was going to need some kind of procedure done. Either way both have turned out to be bad deals.

[notin]

In todays dollars $145/3 for Cy Young Sale is close, but I disagree on 2 full years of recovery, unless the surgery was on April 1st, maybe.

 

In a 5 year span, an even that occurs every 3 years can certainly occur twice. And it has a TWO YEAR WINDOW to start. It doesn’t matter if you agree or not, and April 1 is irrelevant.

 

And Sale is not worth $48mill per year by today’s standards…

[notin]

It was pretty much anticipated, and speculated that Sale was going to need TJ just like it was pretty much speculated that Story was going to need some kind of procedure done. Either way both have turned out to be bad deals.

 

Surgeries etc for Sale have been speculated since he was in college. His delivery was always a concern.

[moonslav59]

It was pretty much anticipated, and speculated that Sale was going to need TJ just like it was pretty much speculated that Story was going to need some kind of procedure done. Either way both have turned out to be bad deals.

 

Story still has4 years left, but he has his work cut out for him.

 

2 years in…

137 games

.685 OPS

Great D

 

Not good, at all.

 

Sale could go 24-4 in ‘24 and the deal would still be a bad one.

[Old Red]

In a 5 year span, an even that occurs every 3 years can certainly occur twice. And it has a TWO YEAR WINDOW to start. It doesn’t matter if you agree or not, and April 1 is irrelevant.

 

And Sale is not worth $48mill per year by today’s standards…

 

I wouldn’t pay anyone to have TJ, and that includes the Big O. No Frail never was worth $48mill per year.

[moonslav59]

Surgeries etc for Sale have been speculated since he was in college. His delivery was always a concern.

 

It seems he has missed more time for non arm related injuries, but I could be wrong on that.

[Old Red]

I don’t think the Red Sox would have paid Frail to sit out 1-2 years for TJ, and i don’t think DD thought he would have surgery. I said it was a mistake to extend Frail the day it happened with 1 more year to go on his contract.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think the Red Sox would have paid Frail to sit out 1-2 years for TJ, and i don’t think DD thought he would have surgery. I said it was a mistake to extend Frail the day it happened with 1 more year to go on his contract.

 

Of course the problem is if you wait out the year the price can go up astronomically. Just ask Bogaerts.

[notin]

It seems he has missed more time for non arm related injuries, but I could be wrong on that.

 

Maybe, but that doesn’t help the argument that they baked in a TJ. I would hope they acknowledged other types of injuries were also plausible…

[Old Red]

Of course the problem is if you wait out the year the price can go up astronomically. Just ask Bogaerts.

 

I understand fully, but Sale was struggling the end of 2018. I blame DD too for not paying Bogey more to extend him longer than 3 years.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe, but that doesn’t help the argument that they baked in a TJ. I would hope they acknowledged other types of injuries were also plausible…

 

Injuries are always hugely possible with any of these contracts. Now we're talking about Trout being damaged goods.

[Bellhorn04]

I understand fully, but Sale was struggling the end of 2018. I blame DD too for not paying Bogey more to extend him longer than 3 years.

 

We can blame all we want, but if Boras said there's no extension without an opt out, there wasn't much DD could do.

[notin]

Of course the problem is if you wait out the year the price can go up astronomically. Just ask Bogaerts.

 

When dealing with these contracts that worth hundreds of millions, you don’t think erring on the side of caution happens? Enough can go wrong with the healthy players, trying to get an injured one at a multiyear discount “just in case” he heals just seems like a bad idea from day one

[Old Red]

We can blame all we want, but if Boras said there's no extension without an opt out, there wasn't much DD could do.

 

Did Boris say that?

[notin]

We can blame all we want, but if Boras said there's no extension without an opt out, there wasn't much DD could do.

 

Going 11 years $280mill looks like it might have worked.

 

Bogaerts has the final say, but he does pay Boras to advise him. It’s not hard to believe that deal cannot happen with no opt out. But a 6-7 year deal worth, say, $150-180 mill ? Not answerable anymore, but it is a different matter…

[notin]

Did Boris say that?

 

It’s a conditional/hypothetical statement. No one knows what went down…

[Bellhorn04]

Did Boris say that?

 

No. It's pure speculation. I just think DD is at least as smart as us, and he more than likely had good reasons for agreeing to the opt out. He's never been known to be shy about giving out large long contracts.

[moonslav59]

Maybe, but that doesn’t help the argument that they baked in a TJ. I would hope they acknowledged other types of injuries were also plausible…

 

Of course other injuries are always possible for any player. I think the contract was low for a healthy Chris Sale.

 

I did not choose the term “baked in,” but they factored in some missed time or lower than expected performance.

 

A healthy Sale was worth much more than $145/5, IMO. Word it how you wish.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And now good 'ol Dombro just locked up Nola for another lucky seven...

 

... did anyone here really think Philly would allow Aaron to test the market, if Dave thought he was still really good?

[Bellhorn04]

When dealing with these contracts that worth hundreds of millions, you don’t think erring on the side of caution happens? Enough can go wrong with the healthy players, trying to get an injured one at a multiyear discount “just in case” he heals just seems like a bad idea from day one

 

Sale wasn't actually injured at the end of 2018. When last seen he was striking out Machado to end the Series.

 

From there it's up to the docs to examine him.

 

That's my take, anyway.

[Old Red]

Sale wasn't actually injured at the end of 2018. When last seen he was striking out Machado to end the Series.

 

From there it's up to the docs to examine him.

 

That's my take, anyway.

 

Every pitch he threw he got closer, and closer to TJ.

[Bellhorn04]

Every pitch he threw he got closer, and closer to TJ.

 

And if he had the TJ at the end of 2019 he would have only missed the 60 game 2020 season. Oh well.

[Old Red]

And if he had the TJ at the end of 2019 he would have only missed the 60 game 2020 season. Oh well.

 

As we have found anything, and everything is possible with Sale.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Every pitch he threw he got closer, and closer to TJ.

 

I could be misremembering, but weren't the late trips to the IL in '17 and '18 (that maybe cost him Cy Youngs), both shoulder-related?

[Old Red]

I could be misremembering, but weren't the late trips to the IL in '17 and '18 (that maybe cost him Cy Youngs), both shoulder-related?

 

Frail was on the DL in July, and Aug of 2018 with 1 start in between stints.

[notin]

And now good 'ol Dombro just locked up Nola for another lucky seven...

 

... did anyone here really think Philly would allow Aaron to test the market, if Dave thought he was still really good?

 

 

No. But it’s not DD’s choice.

 

But this deal is a pretty good price for the 30yo Nola. Not surprised he stayed in Philly, and he wasn’t as expensive as many expected…

[a700hitter]

DD doesn't sit on his hands -- a trademark of Bloom.