Predict the next front office

[mvp 78]

I have no idea what your question means or how it relates to the point I made.

 

IMO, upper management did not want us to trade away top prospects after the Sale trade. Whether it was a firm mandate, a strong guideline or just a suggestion is unknown. Maybe they didn't care, at all.

 

We did make several vet for prospect deals.

Almost all of our trade for a vet, included a prospect with them (Wong with Betts, Seabold w Pivetta, German w Ottavino, DHam w JBJ, Rosier w Hosmer....) Although this is a separate issue, is does point to the idea that building up the farm was a high priority- perhaps more so than building up the 26 man roster.

 

It could just be a general top priority to build up the farm, and Bloom took that to an extreme that JH did not demand.

 

You have no idea how my question related and then go on to reiterate how it related? What the hell?

[mvp 78]

So I can assume no posts and you’re just making up a backstory to fit your rhetoric again?

 

Just read what moon is posting.

[moonslav59]

You have no idea how my question related and then go on to reiterate how it related? What the hell?

 

I explained my position more fully as a stab at answering a vague question. Yes, WTH.

 

Did I answer sufficiently for you?

[Old Red]

Certainly, there is a chance big prospects could have been traded, but chose not to, or came close but blew it or chickened out.

 

I'm not trying to make excuses for Bloom. The only thing I really like about Bloom is his apparent building up of the farm and 40 man roster depth. Had he traded top prospects, that part might look worse, and know him, he might have blown such a trade.

 

This is not about making Bloom look better. It's about why I think no top prospects were traded by DD or Bloom for 6 years.

 

2 GMs: one owner.

 

DD had a pretty loaded team his last two years in Boston, so, because he didn’t trade any top prospects i wouldn’t lump that in with Bloom’s years, and say see DD didn’t trade any top prospects either, so the order must have came down from JH not to do so. As for the 40 man had Bloom traded some of the top prospects who were producing for the big league club it wouldn’t matter if the farm was a little worse off. The top priority is the big league club. Not the farm.

[Old Red]

Correction on the above that had Bloom traded some top prospects for someone who was producing for the big league club the team would be better for it even if it weakened the farm. Kind of like when DD traded top prospects for Sale, and Kimbrel. It weakened the farm system, but most importantly made the big league club better, which should always be the priority. Edited October 25, 2023 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

DD had a pretty loaded team his last two years in Boston, so, because he didn’t trade any top prospects i wouldn’t lump that in with Bloom’s years, and say see DD didn’t trade any top prospects either, so the order must have came down from JH not to do so. As for the 40 man had Bloom traded some of the top prospects who were producing for the big league club it wouldn’t matter if the farm was a little worse off. The top priority is the big league club. Not the farm.

 

I said DD did not trade any top prospects after the Sale trade. If you want to count #6 Beeks for Nate in the summer of 2018, then he did not trade any after the summer of 2018, despite not signing anyone to take Kimbrell or Kelly's spots in the pen. I see this as an indication that a change had occurred in the team's top priority, even before Bloom arrived. It is a theory.

 

I feel DD probably wanted to trade for a closer.

 

Before the deadline in 2019, he apparently came close to trading Betts & Price, so yes, I think a change occurred during DD's last year or 1.5 years. You are free to disagree.

 

As for the farm vs the big club trade-off, it's not clear the big club has always been the top priority. Just because you think it should be, doesn't mean it was.

 

Note: I'm not saying the big club was priority #2 or #3. It's hard to know what the plan was, or if the plan changed over the years. I'm just saying, I think the farm and 40 man roster depth was the first priority under Blooms first 2-3 years, and maybe all years. I also think that priority became #1 during DD's last 1 to 1.5 years with the Sox. It may or may not have been a source in the friction between him and and Kennedy/JH- whoever, that ultimately led to his leaving.

 

It's my opinion, and I do think some events that happened and stopped happening support my theory.

[moonslav59]

Correction on the above that had Bloom traded some top prospects for someone who was producing for the big league club the team would be better for it even if it weakened the farm.

 

That's the general idea of trading prospects to improve the current 26 man roster. Knowing Bloom, he'd have traded Mayer for someone who got hurt or declined, suddenly.

 

Choosing the right major players has not been his strong suit. His near miss on Eflin might be the closest he ever got to adding a high quality player that did well, afterwards.

[notin]

DD had a pretty loaded team his last two years in Boston, so, because he didn’t trade any top prospects i wouldn’t lump that in with Bloom’s years, and say see DD didn’t trade any top prospects either, so the order must have came down from JH not to do so. As for the 40 man had Bloom traded some of the top prospects who were producing for the big league club it wouldn’t matter if the farm was a little worse off. The top priority is the big league club. Not the farm.

 

DD absolutely traded top prospects. Just because they didn’t become All Stars doesn’t change their prospect status…

[Old Red]

DD absolutely traded top prospects. Just because they didn’t become All Stars doesn’t change their prospect status…

 

As usual a day late, and a dollar short for the show. The comment was about his last two years in Boston.

[moonslav59]

DD absolutely traded top prospects. Just because they didn’t become All Stars doesn’t change their prospect status…

 

After the Sale trade in Dec 2016, the only semi-major trade was Beeks for Nate. I would not call the Espinal for Pearce trade or the Buttrey for Kinsler trade as "major."

 

I'd say a change happened over DD's last 2.5 years, but if you want to start at the 2018 deadline, then it was over his last 1.2 years.

 

My point was, the big trades stipped during the end of DD's regime and continued through all of Bloom's years. The reasons why is up for debate.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Knowing Bloom, he'd have traded Mayer for someone who got hurt or declined, suddenly.

 

 

Wrong! He'd trade for someone already hurt, but due to come off the IL in another month... or year... or never -- but you just wait!

[Bellhorn04]

After the Sale trade in Dec 2016, the only semi-major trade was Beeks for Nate. I would not call the Espinal for Pearce trade or the Buttrey for Kinsler trade as "major."

 

I'd say a change happened over DD's last 2.5 years, but if you want to start at the 2018 deadline, then it was over his last 1.2 years.

 

My point was, the big trades stipped during the end of DD's regime and continued through all of Bloom's years. The reasons why is up for debate.

 

The reasons are up for debate, but we can make pretty good guesses at them.

[notin]

As usual a day late, and a dollar short for the show. The comment was about his last two years in Boston.

 

So you’re saying he didn’t trade any top prospects when the Sox didn’t have any top 100 prospects?

[moonslav59]

The reasons are up for debate, but we can make pretty good guesses at them.

 

I'm pretty sure DD was not happy about the push to trade Betts and Price in the summer of 2019. Apparently, a winning stretch changed the plan.

 

I'm pretty sure it was not DD's idea to let Kimbrell and Kelly's slots go unfilled, the winter before 2019 and summer of '19.

 

I can't prove he wanted to trade some more prospects to fill some needs, but it does seem to be his MO. There was obvious friction building up between him and the higher ups, and it's not a big stretch to think it might have been related to a change in direction, which included more focus on the farm than the big club and more money being spent.

 

When it comes to who made the choice between Bloom and upper brass not to trade prospects, it might be kind of like the who came first- the chicken or the egg argument, where there is no defining answer.

 

I think JH & Co. hired Bloom, because he fit into their plan to make the farm a higher priority. He willingly took the job and understood the concept, because he had lived it for his whole career.They did not need to pressure him not to trade top prospects: it was just something they all mutually agreed on as a guideline or concept. Maybe, there was no firm mandate from above, but the overall strategy was clear to everyone, from top to bottom.

[moonslav59]

So you’re saying he didn’t trade any top prospects when the Sox didn’t have any top 100 prospects?

 

The fact is, he did not trade any of the Sox prospects- no matter where they were ranked, nationally. His highest prospect traded after the Sale trade was #6 Beeks. By definition, there were higher, and theoretically better ones that could have been traded, but were not.

 

Certainly, Devers was on everyone's radar, but of course, he was not a prospect by the time period I was talking about. These were:

(Remember, back in 2018 and 2019, teams were more willing to take farther-away prospects than they seem to do, now.)

 

Summer 2018:

1. Chavis

2. Mata

3. Houck

4. Casas

5. Groome

6. Beeks (traded for Nate)

7. Shawaryn

8. Ockimey

9. Decker

10. Chatham

 

Granted, after Beeks, we would not have gotten anyone good, in trade, but the need for a couple RP'ers was high, and they don't usually need top prospects to obtain.

 

By winter '18, Dalbec, DHern and Antoni Flores joined the top 10. By the 2019 deadline, Duran (#3), Feltman (#10) and Jimenez (#8) had joined the top 10.

 

No, there were no more Moncada and Espinoza's left, but there were better prospects than Beeks in the system, and none were traded after Sale- 6 years ago!

 

[Dipre]

So you’re saying he didn’t trade any top prospects when the Sox didn’t have any top 100 prospects?

 

#adaylateandadollarshort

[Bellhorn04]

So you’re saying he didn’t trade any top prospects when the Sox didn’t have any top 100 prospects?

 

They had top Sox prospects.

[moonslav59]

They had top Sox prospects.

 

They had 5 better than Beeks.