A Realistic View at 2024: Part I

[Old Red]

Story - SS

Rafaela - CF

O'Neillll - LF

Abreu - RF

 

That makes the defense a lot better IMO. There are questions about 2B still, but Ron Washington and others who know Grissom believe that he'll be at least an average 2B which would be much better than they had last year at 2B.

 

The biggest problem the last two years has been the infield D, and not the outfield D. I’m not so sure about Abreu in RF either. Dugy was more than adequate out there last year. Raf Man isn’t guaranteed to start in CF either.

Edited January 8, 2024 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

Story - SS

Rafaela - CF

O'Neillll - LF

Abreu - RF

 

That makes the defense a lot better IMO. There are questions about 2B still, but Ron Washington and others who know Grissom believe that he'll be at least an average 2B which would be much better than they had last year at 2B.

 

This makes trading Duran a good idea.

 

I see Teoscar signed with the Dodgers for $15M, so that is one less LF/DH type off the boards. (Please, say no to Soler.)

[moonslav59]

Story - SS

Rafaela - CF

O'Neillll - LF

Abreu - RF

 

That makes the defense a lot better IMO. There are questions about 2B still, but Ron Washington and others who know Grissom believe that he'll be at least an average 2B which would be much better than they had last year at 2B.

 

Even with Duran in LF, our D should be better than 2023:

 

Assuming health...

C better or even

1B likely better

2B better

SS better

3B: same

LF: better (Duran>Yoshida)

CF: better (Rafaela/Abreu>Duvall/Duran)

RF: hard to know (Abreu/O'Neill > Dugo)

[dgalehouse]

Story - SS

Rafaela - CF

O'Neillll - LF

Abreu - RF

 

That makes the defense a lot better IMO. There are questions about 2B still, but Ron Washington and others who know Grissom believe that he'll be at least an average 2B which would be much better than they had last year at 2B.

 

Rafaela, Abreu and O'Neill ? How does that match up with the better outfields in MLB ? How about the Yankees outfield ? I would say it doesn't match up too well .

[moonslav59]

Rafaela, Abreu and O'Neill ? How does that match up with the better outfields in MLB ? How about the Yankees outfield ? I would say it doesn't match up too well .

 

On D?

[Hugh2]

Rafaela, Abreu and O'Neill ? How does that match up with the better outfields in MLB ? How about the Yankees outfield ? I would say it doesn't match up too well .

 

Defesively? that outfield would miles better than the Yankees outfield. Offensively? not many in baseball will match Soto/Judge.

[Old Red]

Rafaela, Abreu and O'Neill ? How does that match up with the better outfields in MLB ? How about the Yankees outfield ? I would say it doesn't match up too well .

 

I didn’t know Cora had announced any lineup yet. The is pure speculation that doesn’t turn out right very often. That’s why I’ll wait, and see who takes the field on March 28th.

[moonslav59]

Defesively? that outfield would miles better than the Yankees outfield. Offensively? not many in baseball will match Soto/Judge.

 

Agreed. The offensive output is almost all speculative, for the Sox.

 

O'Neill is the closest we have to a know commodity.

Duran? 2023 or 2021-2022?

Yoshida? DH or LF? Improved or more of the same?

Rafaela? May start in AAA, be a D first CF'er or do okay to decent batting?

Abreu? May start in AAA or be an unknown in MLB?

Refsnyder? Looks like a platoon only OF'er with poor defensive skills.

[notin]

Rafaela, Abreu and O'Neill ? How does that match up with the better outfields in MLB ? How about the Yankees outfield ? I would say it doesn't match up too well .

 

Luckily teams aren’t awarded bonus runs for “best outfield” any more…

[dgalehouse]

Talking about all around outfield , not strictly defense. I would think you would want some offense from your outfielders if you are serious about winning .

[Old Red]

Defesively? that outfield would miles better than the Yankees outfield. Offensively? not many in baseball will match Soto/Judge.

 

Miles better? Judge might not hold up in CF, but it’s not that bad either.

[notin]

Story - SS

Rafaela - CF

O'Neillll - LF

Abreu - RF

 

That makes the defense a lot better IMO. There are questions about 2B still, but Ron Washington and others who know Grissom believe that he'll be at least an average 2B which would be much better than they had last year at 2B.

 

I’m more on board with Duran (LF), Rafaela (CF) and O’Neill (RF). Not wild about the dual rookies as starters coupled with the depleted depth. There will be chances for Abreu…

[Old Red]

Talking about all around outfield , not strictly defense. I would think you would want some offense from your outfielders if you are serious about winning .

 

Exactly, and the RAF Man hasn’t proved he can even come close to hitting ML pitching yet, and Abreu doesn’t have that many AB yet to know what he can do.

[notin]

Miles better? Judge might not hold up in CF, but it’s not that bad either.

 

O’Neill is a multiple Gold Glove winner and Rafaela is an elite defender in CF. Defensively, it’s absolutely miles better than a Yankee outfield that appears ready to bench their best defensive player…

[Old Red]

O’Neill is a multiple Gold Glove winner and Rafaela is an elite defender in CF. Defensively, it’s absolutely miles better than a Yankee outfield that appears ready to bench their best defensive player…

 

Except for on here, no one official has said the RAF Man is going to be the starting CF. I have seen the RAF Man make a couple of great catches in Portland, but can he hit good enough.

[dgalehouse]

Defesively? that outfield would miles better than the Yankees outfield. Offensively? not many in baseball will match Soto/Judge.

 

Abreu is miles better than Verdugo? Rafaela is miles better than Judge? O'Neill is miles better than Soto? I don't know about that. I have hardly seen those Sox outfielders play. I have seen plenty of the Yankee outfielders. How do you figure ? Metrics? Scouting reports? It just sounds like false bravado to me. And as far as hitting, it is not even comparable. This place is getting ridiculous. Even the simplest, most obvious statements are disputed by the intelligentsia.

[mvp 78]

I’m more on board with Duran (LF), Rafaela (CF) and O’Neill (RF). Not wild about the dual rookies as starters coupled with the depleted depth. There will be chances for Abreu…

 

I was just looking specifically at defense and didn't want to mention THE BUTTERFLY MAN.

[notin]

I was just looking specifically at defense and didn't want to mention THE BUTTERFLY MAN.

 

O’Neill-Rafaela-Duvall and nothing touches grass all year…

Edited January 8, 2024 by notin

[mvp 78]

Rafaela, Abreu and O'Neill ? How does that match up with the better outfields in MLB ? How about the Yankees outfield ? I would say it doesn't match up too well .

 

Not sure what me responding to a comment about the "D not being better" in '24 has to do with the Sox not having one of the better OFs in MLB. It's a completely different conversation.

 

There's nothing about the Red Sox right now that will be "one of the better in MLB" except for maybe their manager who will be leaving at the end of the season.

[dgalehouse]

I always ask myself: WWBTVD? What would BTV do? I wonder what BTV would say about trading O'Neill, Abreu and Rafaela for Judge, Soto and Verdugo. They would probably want the Yanks to throw in Dominguez to even it up. I think some folks here are just bored and going stir crazy. Drifting away from reality.

[mvp 78]

Defesively? that outfield would miles better than the Yankees outfield. Offensively? not many in baseball will match Soto/Judge.

 

Hoping Judge misses another 60+ games!

[Old Red]

I was just looking specifically at defense and didn't want to mention THE BUTTERFLY MAN.

 

Ah the Butterfly Man. How could anyone forget him, or Franchy in that 2022 lowlight film.

[mvp 78]

I didn’t know Cora had announced any lineup yet. The is pure speculation that doesn’t turn out right very often. That’s why I’ll wait, and see who takes the field on March 28th.

 

You just asked how the D could be better. I listed a lineup. Like WTH? It's not like the Opening Day lineup is what Cora will run out there for 162. Wasn't Arroyo playing RF on Opening Day one year?

[mvp 78]

Talking about all around outfield , not strictly defense. I would think you would want some offense from your outfielders if you are serious about winning .

 

Wilyer Abreu '23: 135 wRC+

 

Will he repeat it? Who knows? I guess we'll just have to wait until the end up September before we're allowed to comment.

[mvp 78]

I’m more on board with Duran (LF), Rafaela (CF) and O’Neill (RF). Not wild about the dual rookies as starters coupled with the depleted depth. There will be chances for Abreu…

 

Have Abreu as 4th OFer. Fine. IDC.

[moonslav59]

Talking about all around outfield , not strictly defense. I would think you would want some offense from your outfielders if you are serious about winning .

 

Of course, but the post your replied to was talking only about defensive improvements,

 

On offense, that OF is depending on way too much hope.

 

O'Neill had an excellent 2021. (.912 OPS)

His career numbers per 650 PAs:

.248 29 81 (.776 OPS)

The problem: 2022-2023 combined: Just 626 PAs .229 40 79 (.707 OPS)

 

Duran (not included in best defensive OF alignment)

2021-2022: (335 PAs) .219 5 27 (.622)

2023: (362 PAs) .295 8 40 (.828) 24 SBs and 36 2B+3B

Who will show up in 2024?

 

Refsnyder: Role player/platoon

Out of 200 batters with 200+ PAs vs LHPs since 2022, Ref places 22nd in OPS at .889.

 

Rafaela: Unknown, Considered to have major holes in his swing, and barely walks.

.666 OPS in just 89 MLB PAs

.988 OPS in AAA (199 PAs)

.800 OPS in AA (579 PAs) with 44 SBs

 

Abreu: Unknown, but showed better plate discipline in minors.

.863 OPS in small 85 PA sample size

.930 OPS in AAA (363 PAs)

.834 OPS in AA (579 PAs) w 31 SBs

 

Yoshida to mostly DH? Who knows?

Offense looked good, until mid August and was still at .800 on SEP 12th.

Stamina questions. Will DH'ing more help?

[dgalehouse]

This makes trading Duran a good idea.

 

I see Teoscar signed with the Dodgers for $15M, so that is one less LF/DH type off the boards. (Please, say no to Soler.)

 

It does not make trading Duran a good idea. That is a terrible idea.

[mvp 78]

O’Neill is a multiple Gold Glove winner and Rafaela is an elite defender in CF. Defensively, it’s absolutely miles better than a Yankee outfield that appears ready to bench their best defensive player…

 

It was my only point. Thank you.

[Old Red]

Not sure what me responding to a comment about the "D not being better" in '24 has to do with the Sox not having one of the better OFs in MLB. It's a completely different conversation.

 

There's nothing about the Red Sox right now that will be "one of the better in MLB" except for maybe their manager who will be leaving at the end of the season.[/quote

 

The zRed Sox have finished with a losing last place in the Div finish the last two years with Cora at the helm. They’ve won a WS with a loaded team, and they’ve sucked without one. Simple as that.

[dgalehouse]

It should be assumed that you want a productive outfield. Ideally, you want good hitters who can play defense.