A Realistic View at 2024: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

Now compare titles!!

 

I do cherish the titles, I really do. But to me there's no sugar-coating that since 2012 it's been a weird trip and all too often a real bummer trip.

[mvp 78]

Like it or not, there is a certain embarrassment in finishing dead last.

 

I don't see a difference between 4th and 5th place. Both are pretty terrible. The winning % may be a bigger indicator IMO.

[mvp 78]

not trying to disrespect you but this is a "win now league" and the Sox FO/Owner has not given the team the talent it needs to compete in the AL East.

 

I think the budget is high enough, I think the specific acquisitions were what hurt the team. Replace Kluber with Eovaldi and last year's team looks much better.

[mvp 78]

Yes let’s overreact.

 

They were 78-84. It’s not good but it also isn’t 57-105…

 

They were bad, but not 2020 bad.

[notin]

I do cherish the titles, I really do. But to me there's no sugar-coating that since 2012 it's been a weird trip and all too often a real bummer trip.

 

Ok, but what was your point?

[notin]

They were bad, but not 2020 bad.

 

Like maybe 2022 bad?

[Bellhorn04]

The embarrassing thing about 2023 was that the team was quite respectable through July, but Bloom did his Mr. Dithers thing again and the Sox went 22-34 in their last 56. The fact they were comfortably ahead of the Yanks (who also had little to play for) for a while but blew that lead quite emphatically was also a bit embarrassing.

[mvp 78]

Power rankings of the last DAMN place teams:

2020

2012

2014

2022

2023

2015

 

If I had to rank 1992, it'd probably be in between 2020 and 2012.

[Bellhorn04]

Ok, but what was your point?

 

I presented factual numbers and my take on them. Folks can interpret them how they see fit, but the numbers are etched in stone forever...

[mvp 78]

Like maybe 2022 bad?

 

Yup, like 2015/2022 bad. '23 and '15 both had about even R/RA. In '22 they gave up way more runs than what they actually scored.

[mvp 78]

I do cherish the titles, I really do. But to me there's no sugar-coating that since 2012 it's been a weird trip and all too often a real bummer trip.

 

It's been Mr Toad's Wild Ride. There's no doubt.

[Duran Is The Man]

Here's one way to look at things that makes no reference to placing or divisions:

 

Over the 12-year period 2012-2023 the Red Sox finished under .500 6 times (50%).

Over the 46-year period 1966-2011 the Red Sox finished under .500 6 times (13%).

 

ouch.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Here's one way to look at things that makes no reference to placing or divisions:

 

Over the 12-year period 2012-2023 the Red Sox finished under .500 6 times (50%).

Over the 46-year period 1966-2011 the Red Sox finished under .500 6 times (13%).

 

Great perspective. The question for longtime posters to answer honestly: in which era did you feel more happy as a fan?

 

For me, it was the near-half century when the Sox were winners 87% of the time -- certainly not when they were losers half the time.

 

To look at another way, consider '67 to '03, before any rings -- no one can say Boston fans were en-titled then... but personally, I'm more entertained when my team is mostly good, because there's always hope following winners.

 

Over the past decade, a lot of us pretended we still had a chance while looking up at all the other clubs in the division. Ya, the wild card exists, but most of us are also realistic to know when the glass is half-suck.

[notin]

Great perspective. The question for longtime posters to answer honestly: in which era did you feel more happy as a fan?

 

For me, it was the near-half century when the Sox were winners 87% of the time -- certainly not when they were losers half the time.

 

To look at another way, consider '67 to '03, before any rings -- no one can say Boston fans were en-titled then... but personally, I'm more entertained when my team is mostly good, because there's always hope following winners.

 

Over the past decade, a lot of us pretended we still had a chance while looking up at all the other clubs in the division. Ya, the wild card exists, but most of us are also realistic to know when the glass is half-suck.

 

A lot of those teams over .500 before didn’t even tease us with competitiveness. The 1979 Red Sox finished over .500. And also 11.5 games out. In 1980, they were over .500, but also 19 games out. The problem with those teams is they were bad enough to not matter, but just good enough that you knew there would be no tear down and the bulk of those players would be back next year…

[mvp 78]

Great perspective. The question for longtime posters to answer honestly: in which era did you feel more happy as a fan?

 

For me, it was the near-half century when the Sox were winners 87% of the time -- certainly not when they were losers half the time.

 

To look at another way, consider '67 to '03, before any rings -- no one can say Boston fans were en-titled then... but personally, I'm more entertained when my team is mostly good, because there's always hope following winners.

 

Over the past decade, a lot of us pretended we still had a chance while looking up at all the other clubs in the division. Ya, the wild card exists, but most of us are also realistic to know when the glass is half-suck.

 

What a surprise that the "just win one before I die" crowd turns to "winning 4 wasn't enough for me because it's a roller coaster. I guarantee that everyone would have signed onto 4 championships in a rollercoaster rather than "wait til next year."

[notin]

What a surprise that the "just win one before I die" crowd turns to "winning 4 wasn't enough for me because it's a roller coaster. I guarantee that everyone would have signed onto 4 championships in a rollercoaster rather than "wait til next year."

 

Apparently that chant has now evolved into “please stop winnng titles and return to playing slightly above average baseball for a few years”

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I knew I could count on two typists who thrive on picking apart an honest post, but I didn't expect them not to actually answer the question I posed:

 

HERE IT IS AGAIN: Were you happier as a fan of a team that was a winner 87% of the time over 46 years -- or one that was a loser half the time in the past decade?

[mvp 78]

A lot of those teams over .500 before didn’t even tease us with competitiveness. The 1979 Red Sox finished over .500. And also 11.5 games out. In 1980, they were over .500, but also 19 games out. The problem with those teams is they were bad enough to not matter, but just good enough that you knew there would be no tear down and the bulk of those players would be back next year…

 

Did the '88 or '90 teams that were in 1st place even have a chance of beating the A's to get to the WS? No f***ing way! That '95 1st place team had Mike MacFarlane, Luis Alicea and Lee Tinsley as up the middle everyday starters.

 

Aside from '86, the Red Sox weren't really good from 80 - 97. We were just lucky that they had some HOF talent that we got to watch along the way. It was on the FO for not being able to fill out that roster.

[mvp 78]

I knew I could count on two typists who thrive on picking apart an honest post, but I didn't expect them not to actually answer the question I posed:

 

HERE IT IS AGAIN: Were you happier as a fan of a team that was a winner 87% of the time over 46 years -- or one that was a loser half the time in the past decade?

 

Now!!!! 2018 was great. 2013 was great. It sucks that our recent two seasons were frustrating, but even 2021 was a fun ride to the ALCS. That wasn't that long ago!

[mvp 78]

Apparently that chant has now evolved into “please stop winnng titles and return to playing slightly above average baseball for a few years”

 

Just third place! Just third place! Just third place!

[mvp 78]

I guess the question is also would I rather be a Red Sox fan since 2012 or a Blue Jays/Rays/Yankees/O's fan. I'd take the Red Sox. O's are set up fairly well in the short term, but their owner is complete garbage and I don't trust him. Rays have a great FO, but can't get over the hump and are building their new stadium in the same place that can't draw people now. Jays org is mid.

[Old Red]

Apparently that chant has now evolved into “please stop winnng titles and return to playing slightly above average baseball for a few years”

 

Talk about over analyzing everything thing. That wasn’t what he was saying at all. Of course you see things that aren’t there, and go off on it.

[mvp 78]

Talk about over analyzing everything thing. That wasn’t what he was saying at all. Of course you see things that aren’t there, and go off on it.

 

It wasn't over analyzing, it was answering the question. 5GGGGG said he was happier before the WS than 04-23 and would have been a happier fan if they hadn't won a WS, but continued to have a higher Win %. I wouldn't.

 

Over and over we heard "just one before I die." I guess it wasn't true? People just wanted the loveable losers and the curse and that crap? I want championships and Ortiz sending Hunter into the pen and Mueller hitting walkoffs and unlikely Steve Pearce MVP's.

 

I answered the question. It just wasn't appreciated HOW I answered the question.

[Dipre]

Talk about over analyzing everything thing. That wasn’t what he was saying at all. Of course you see things that aren’t there, and go off on it.

 

He's not over-analyzing anything. Both of them are right on point. I'll take two championships and three more trips to the playoffs plus the rest of the years being last place finishes every day and twice on Sunday. Pointing out the hypocrisy of the crowd that spent 30-40 years waiting on a championship to immediately turn into entitled whiners is not incorrect.

[Old Red]

What a surprise that the "just win one before I die" crowd turns to "winning 4 wasn't enough for me because it's a roller coaster. I guarantee that everyone would have signed onto 4 championships in a rollercoaster rather than "wait til next year."

 

I’ve always said the 1967 team was my favorite team, and 1975 is next, and neither team won a WS. I was was never in the crowd that wished for a WS Championship before I die. Once again everyone sees things differently. Yes it’s been great to win 4 championships, but it was also great to watch teams of yesteryear especially the homegrown ones that had some great talent on it. The 1975 team knocked off the three time defending champs A’s, and took the Big Red Machine to the last inning of the 7th game without Rice. Both of the Reds, and A’s were the best teams of their time, and that was exciting to me, so once again everyone sees things differently, and that’s why there is, and should be different opinions. Last place should never be accepted no matter how many titles you win.

[Old Red]

It wasn't over analyzing, it was answering the question. 5GGGGG said he was happier before the WS than 04-23 and would have been a happier fan if they hadn't won a WS, but continued to have a higher Win %. I wouldn't.

 

Over and over we heard "just one before I die." I guess it wasn't true? People just wanted the loveable losers and the curse and that crap? I want championships and Ortiz sending Hunter into the pen and Mueller hitting walkoffs and unlikely Steve Pearce MVP's.

 

I answered the question. It just wasn't appreciated HOW I answered the question.

 

Nobody said please stop winning titles.🙈

[notin]

I knew I could count on two typists who thrive on picking apart an honest post, but I didn't expect them not to actually answer the question I posed:

 

HERE IT IS AGAIN: Were you happier as a fan of a team that was a winner 87% of the time over 46 years -- or one that was a loser half the time in the past decade?

 

Ok do you just want above .500? Let’s not pretend a winning record automatically puts you in the playoffs. The 1979 Red. sox won 91 games and finished further outside the postseason picture than the 2023 team did…

[mvp 78]

I’ve always said the 1967 team was my favorite team, and 1975 is next, and neither team won a WS. I was was never in the crowd that wished for a WS Championship before I die. Once again everyone sees things differently. Yes it’s been great to win 4 championships, but it was also great to watch teams of yesteryear especially the homegrown ones that had some great talent on it. The 1975 team knocked off the three time defending champs A’s, and took the Big Red Machine to the last inning of the 7th game without Rice. Both of the Reds, and A’s were the best teams of their time, and that was exciting to me, so once again everyone sees things differently, and that’s why there is, and should be different opinions. Last place should never be accepted no matter how many titles you win.

 

1. Those teams are your favorite because you were YOUNGER. Just like how I'm fond of the '86 team.

 

2. Nobody is making excuses for the bad teams and saying that it's acceptable. They fired the CBO. It's time for them to field a competitive team again and stop wasting time.

[mvp 78]

Red Sox regular season winning % by period

 

67-03: 53.8%, 0 championships

04-23: 54.5%, 4 championships

[Old Red]

1. Those teams are your favorite because you were YOUNGER. Just like how I'm fond of the '86 team.

 

2. Nobody is making excuses for the bad teams and saying that it's acceptable. They fired the CBO. It's time for them to field a competitive team again and stop wasting time.

 

Your right those two teams especially the 67 team was my favorite, because I was younger, and to me when your younger they seem to be bigger in aura than when you get older. Plus in 67 too they wasn’t on TV that often, and you had to tune into the old AM radio.