Bloom fired

[Bellhorn04]

Betts wanted to get into the open market - and the Sox were not interested in that. It's their prerogative - but the bottom line was a deep pocketed franchise made a panic trade of the sort of player a big pocketed franchise flat doesn't lose.

 

There's just no valid explanation for not making a better effort to retain a popular Hall of Famer in his prime. Henry blew it and he has to own it.

[mvp 78]

Betts wanted to get into the open market - and the Sox were not interested in that. It's their prerogative - but the bottom line was a deep pocketed franchise made a panic trade of the sort of player a big pocketed franchise flat doesn't lose.

 

Red Sox always believe they have a certain value attached to each player. They wouldn't give a long contract to 30 year old starters. Don't want to go over 300M for a player. Whatever. Well, the market ends up passing them by at some point and they end up looking foolish.

[mvp 78]

There's just no valid explanation for not making a better effort to retain a popular Hall of Famer in his prime. Henry blew it and he has to own it.

 

And he never will.

[Old Red]

I don't believe those reports for one second, that's the first thing he did and Henry let him live here for another 4 whole freaking years.

 

If that is true, then it's on Henry that he kept him on for 4 years after trading Betts.

 

Everything coming out now has to be taken with a massive grain of salt. There's no way Betts got traded without Henry's approval, he also may have been traded because Henry wouldn't allow the money it would have taken to resign Betts.

 

There's no way Betts can not be on Henry.

Just because of the possibility that JH never told Bloom he didn’t have to trade Betts, didn’t mean he wanted to pay him, so both could be true, so that wouldn’t mean the JH would fire him, because he did. I’m sure JH stayed out of town, when Mookie came back to Boston with all those Dodgers fans in the stands. Probably embarrassed to do a meet, and greet, and hear all the boos.

[Bellhorn04]

They had like 90M to spend and still be under the CBT. That was enough to field a competitive team. He couldn't find a SS. He couldn't build a rotation. They spent 30M on Duvall/Yoshida/Turner and it didn't really work out. Part of it was trying to make up for errors BLOOM made in 2022 (going over the CBT, signing an injured Story).

 

Sure, they had 90M after subtracting Bogaerts, Eovaldi and Wacha. It's not like it was the same team plus $90 mill to play with.

[notin]

People under estimate how desperate teams get.

 

Pitchers losing a year and coming from TJ is so common nowadays that we have to look at it minus the lens of our own biases.

 

It's perfectly believable a team could have thought they were buying low and could get a highly talented guy like Chris Sale for next to nothing.

 

No it isn’t.

 

The story said after the bike accident. That puts it in late 2022.

 

When was the last time Sale was pitching like a highly talented pitcher? 2018? Early 2019? At that time, Sale had pitched 47 IP in the last 3 years.

 

He’s off the radar. On this board, Sale is considered “unreliable.” Why is it we assess him that way but think people who have to actually pay him don’t think he’s that way?

 

Also - buying him for next to nothing? He will cost them $55mill. That’s not “next to nothing.” I’m not so sure GMs view deals for “only money” the same west fans do.

 

I’m calling this whole thing ********. It’s not believable in any level…

Edited September 15, 2023 by notin

[mvp 78]

Today I'm starting to see the forest for the trees, I find some of these reports troublesome and I'm certain there are elements of truth to all of them. But it just reaks of BS and Smear and Spin from the Sox front office.

 

The reports mostly came from outside the organization or not from ownership.

[sk7326]

I don't believe those reports for one second, that's the first thing he did and Henry let him live here for another 4 whole freaking years.

 

If that is true, then it's on Henry that he kept him on for 4 years after trading Betts.

 

Everything coming out now has to be taken with a massive grain of salt. There's no way Betts got traded without Henry's approval, he also may have been traded because Henry wouldn't allow the money it would have taken to resign Betts.

 

There's no way Betts can not be on Henry.

 

100%.

 

I'd go further than that ... there is no way that ANY move - such as dealing Betts or extending Sale - gets done without ownership approval. (this applies to all franchises) If this is like any normal business - I'd assume the GM had more or less total autonomy for lower $$ moves, and higher $$ moves ownership is briefed or whatever.

[mvp 78]

No it isn’t.

 

The story said after the bike accident. That puts it in late 2022.

 

When was the last time Sale was pitching like a highly talented pitcher? 2018? Early 2019? At that time, Sale had pitched 47 IP in the last 3 years.

 

He’s off the drafts. On this board, Sale is considered “unreliable.” Why is it we assess him that way but think people who have to actually pay him don’t think he’s that way?

 

Also - buying him for next to nothing? He will cost them $55mill. That’s not “next to nothing.” I’m not so sure GMs view deals for “only money” the same west fans do.

 

I’m calling this whole thing ********. It’s not believable in any level…

 

You just don't want to believe it.

[Old Red]

They've sacked 3 guys in a row after 4 years. Bloom was the guy I thought they might be patient with. I think we can all forget about patience now.

 

Why to hell would you be patient with someone in charge of a last place team? DD had 4 winning seasons, and a WS.

[sk7326]

Why to hell would you be patient with someone in charge of a last place team? DD had 4 winning seasons, and a WS.

 

Dombrowski started with a better hand.

[mvp 78]

People under estimate how desperate teams get.

 

Pitchers losing a year and coming from TJ is so common nowadays that we have to look at it minus the lens of our own biases.

 

It's perfectly believable a team could have thought they were buying low and could get a highly talented guy like Chris Sale for next to nothing.

 

Multiple people outside the organization expressed issues with their inability with getting deals done with Chaim (Sale deal, Verdugo deal, JD deal). At some point there's just too much smoke to ignore.

[mvp 78]

Why to hell would you be patient with someone in charge of a last place team? DD had 4 winning seasons, and a WS.

 

It's less about the record and more about what he did or didn't do during that time.

[notin]

You just don't want to believe it.

 

It’s simply not believable. Unless the offer was for a worse contract, why would any team take on Sale? Because he used to be good several years ago? Ok, so was Bumgarner but these same GMs let him clear waivers and still didn’t sign him when he cost the league minimum…

[Hugh2]

Red Sox always believe they have a certain value attached to each player. They wouldn't give a long contract to 30 year old starters. Don't want to go over 300M for a player. Whatever. Well, the market ends up passing them by at some point and they end up looking foolish.

 

This was Blooms biggest asset and disadvantage.

 

He had a value system attached to guys, and he may have too good at that for his own good. Heres how.

 

If you're the most rational guy in the room, and you have determined that player XYZ is worth $100, and someone else comes in and wants to pay $102 and you stick to your guns, you never get said player. Being too rational is almost a disadvantage. This was Bloom's problem, and it's why I think he never got a Right fielder in 2022. Those of us who defended the JBJ trade did so because at the time we thought it was a precursor to signing a starter to play RF, JBJ was going to be the 4th outfielder to shore up the defense. But Bloom never signed anyone else, because he was outbid on EVERYONE.

 

This is why he couldn't trade Paxton, Eovaldi, JDM, and others in recent years at the deadline. He had unrealistic expectations.

 

The Vasquez trade is actually starting to look like a very very very good trade. Two guys, 12 years of MLB service for 2 months of CV. Because one time he found a team willing to overpay and meet his price.

 

At a certain point you have to be a little irrational if you're going to win the bid and get the guy. That's what Dave D was good at, and it's what the Sox need this offseason if they're going to fix the rotation. Because realistically they need 3 starters, and the place should be burned to the ground if they trade everyone they got to get them. They're going to (or at least should) be filling two of those slots in FA, and that will never happen under Blooms rational value system.

[Bellhorn04]

No it isn’t.

 

The story said after the bike accident. That puts it in late 2022.

 

When was the last time Sale was pitching like a highly talented pitcher? 2018? Early 2019? At that time, Sale had pitched 47 IP in the last 3 years.

 

He’s off the radar. On this board, Sale is considered “unreliable.” Why is it we assess him that way but think people who have to actually pay him don’t think he’s that way?

 

Also - buying him for next to nothing? He will cost them $55mill. That’s not “next to nothing.” I’m not so sure GMs view deals for “only money” the same west fans do.

 

I’m calling this whole thing ********. It’s not believable in any level…

 

OK, you've been assigned to this particular case.

[Bellhorn04]

Why to hell would you be patient with someone in charge of a last place team? DD had 4 winning seasons, and a WS.

 

Because the only reason you replace DD with Bloom is if you want to rebuild and get payroll under control.

[notin]

Why to hell would you be patient with someone in charge of a last place team? DD had 4 winning seasons, and a WS.

 

DD was the finish painter who made the bedrooms look good. (Not sure who chose teal, but whatever.)

 

Bloom was pouring a whole new foundation.

 

Both are going to get to a livable house at different times…

[Hugh2]

Multiple people outside the organization expressed issues with their inability with getting deals done with Chaim (Sale deal, Verdugo deal, JD deal). At some point there's just too much smoke to ignore.

 

I'm not ignoring the smoke, I'm questioning the timing and the spin.

 

Henry very well could have instructed Bloom to trade Betts, or gave Bloom a no when he conveyed Betts price tag. That doesn't make it a lie when they say "yeah, he traded away Mookie Betts"

 

I don't not believe these stories, I disbelieve that Henry and Co were in the dark and not on board with them, and to some extent may have even instructed them to happen. Bloom had his disadvantages and it may have been his time to go regardless, but this reeks of a smear campaign with the FO throwing him under the bus. As if they want to wash their hands clean of the last 4 years and say NONE of it was on them. That's BS.

[notin]

OK, you've been assigned to this particular case.

 

It’s been made. It’s over.

 

I want to say “the defense rests,” but my case was more about defending the other 29 MLB front offices out there. Nothing to do with Bloom…

[Old Red]

It's less about the record and more about what he did or didn't do during that time.

 

It’s less about the record? It’s exactly about the record, and why the record was what it is. I keep saying here, and now is what’s most important, and being in a possible last place finish again, and watching the postseason from afar for a second straight year. I’m sure JH is all excited that the farm rankings are better like some are on here, and are willing to wait for 2025.

[Old Red]

Because the only reason you replace DD with Bloom is if you want to rebuild and get payroll under control.

 

If things are done right you don’t have to do a rebuild. You don’t have to finish in last place to make the farm rankings better, and cut some payroll. JH had a fallen out with JH, and that’s why he was fired. It could have been about cutting payroll, or not.

[Hugh2]

If things are done right you don’t have to do a rebuild. You don’t have to finish in last place to make the farm rankings better, and cut some payroll. JH had a fallen out with JH, and that’s why he was fired. It could have been about cutting payroll, or not.

 

half agree. You do have to do all those things......they just shouldn't take 5+ years. A well-run organization can rebuild in just a few.

[moonslav59]

Let’s remember there are reports out there that said Bloom was never told he had to trade Betts to stay under the CBT, but Bloom did it anyway. This was all discussed on here a few weeks back, and yes the reports were cited.

 

Yes, I know about those reports. You seem to really grab onto any report or quote that fits your narrative.

 

No matter what happened, I can't see how anyone can think trading betts was not an organizational choice made. I tend to believe it was something they knew was going to happen before Bloom was even hired, or pretty soon afterwards.

 

Maybe Kennedy was a naysayer on the trade idea, but for him to call out Bloom for trading him, seemed like passing the buck, to me. (I could be wrong.)

 

I seriously doubt Bloom talked upper management into massive budget cuts from the 2019 ledger. If it is true that Bloom was given free reign to cut the budget anyway he saw fit, and not just for 2020 but beyond, I'm not sure how he could have done it without trading Betts. Nobody wanted Price or half-Price without Betts. (I think only 1 or 2 teams wanted the combo, as it was, or at least enough to make a serious offer.)

 

Nobody wanted Sale and his contract that I know of.

 

Has Bloom traded Bogey and JD, instead of Betts, would the mood of Sox nation been much different?

 

Had he been lucky and found takers for Price and Sale, while keeping Betts, what would the rest of the roster have looked like in 2020 & 2021, when bett's contract was basically the full winter spending budget?

 

I will say, maybe Bloom was the bandwagon driver on trading Betts. I doubt it, but we don't know, but I am 100% certain, it was not his final call.

[moonslav59]

Today I'm starting to see the forest for the trees, I find some of these reports troublesome and I'm certain there are elements of truth to all of them. But it just reaks of BS and Smear and Spin from the Sox front office.

 

If this was the first time the FO did this, I might have doubts, but it has been their MO whenever any major employee departs on shaky ground. (Players, coaches and GMs.)

[Hugh2]

Anybody who is believes or disbelieves these reports 100% is a very gullible person.

 

I don't disbelieve them, but the timing is questionable, there are obviously elements of truth in them but there's no way Bloom acted on his own without ownership's approval. Their hands are dirty too and they're throwing Bloom under the bus. That should be obvious to anyone with half a brain.

[Hugh2]

If this was the first time the FO did this, I might have doubts, but it has been their MO whenever any major employee departs on shaky ground. (Players, coaches and GMs.)

 

Exactly, I'm getting angry all over again about how they threw TITO under the bus and smeared his name.

[Old Red]

half agree. You do have to do all those things......they just shouldn't take 5+ years. A well-run organization can rebuild in just a few.

 

That’s if you need a rebuild in the first place.

[moonslav59]

Sure, they had 90M after subtracting Bogaerts, Eovaldi and Wacha. It's not like it was the same team plus $90 mill to play with.

 

...and Strahm and Hill, who had more IP than Nate.

 

Still, Bloom was on the clock and he blundered the winter by neglecting the rotation.

 

(I don't blame him for SS, except for maybe not getting Reyes, earlier and forcing Cora to play him, earlier, We had Kike, Yang, DHam to hold us over to Mondesi to hold us over to Story. It's hard to pan on 5 failures at one slot.)

 

[Bellhorn04]

That’s if you need a rebuild in the first place.

 

Henry definitely decided they did. It's the only reason you replace DD with a guy from the Rays organization.