When should Bloom be fired?

[Hugh2]

When Bloom, and Dugy had a meeting out on the field after a game a few weeks ago was he making the same promise to him that he gave to Kike last year that the ball club will be better next year?

 

Well Kike was a free agent he was trying to sign, Verdugo is here next year and he doesn't really have a choice right now.

[mvp 78]

I think this gets the causation backwards. I mean, Bloom spent a LOT of money on a closer last year - which seems very out of character for a Tampa guy. Ownership has clearly felt burned by the Price and Sale contracts - but never going to the well ever again ever is not answer either.

 

The lack of organizational attention to pitching and defense has been wild - that was the entire Tampa Bay oeuvre!

 

This isn't Tampa North, obviously.

[Hugh2]

This isn't Tampa North, obviously.

 

No, but a lot of people seem to think so.

 

There are some here who think the Sox resetting the luxury tax limit is evidence they don't want to be big time spenders anymore.

[Old Red]

Yorke will be chilling in AAA. If he hits, he's just an Uber ride away if needed for Urias. I don't know what to say about Story.

 

Raf Man is going to Winter ball to play 2B, so who knows what will happen. Raffy will be at 3B, Story at SS, Casas at 1B, and. Yoshida will be in LF/DH next year. Outside of that the possibilities are endless.

[sk7326]

I get that, but we have so many very weak hitters vs LHPs, especially in the OF. I'm not convinced Duran can hit lefties, yet, and Dugo has already proven he cannot.

 

Rafaela and Abreu are unproven, and Yoshi should be the DH. That creates a space for Ref, but I'm not sure replacing him is a good idea.

 

They will need an extra outfielder - whomever it is. Rafaela is unproven - but I think it's clear at this point that the team should just put him in CF and let it ride. Yoshida can play LF at Fenway, but nowhere else. They really should just trade Verdugo.

[sk7326]

Raf Man is going to Winter ball to play 2B, so who knows what will happen. Raffy will be at 3B, Story at SS, Casas at 1B, and. Yoshida will be in LF/DH next year. Outside of that the possibilities are endless.

 

Rafaela could be a more sustainable version of what Kike brought to the table at minimum. But he has the chance to be one of the best CFs in the entire league.

[mvp 78]

No, but a lot of people seem to think so.

 

There are some here who think the Sox resetting the luxury tax limit is evidence they don't want to be big time spenders anymore.

 

I think people's assumptions were that they left too much cushion under the CBT. The problem is that the online tools that calculate the Sox' CBT aren't great at the moment. We now they are under, but can only guess at how far due to bonuses and other issues.

 

They can't go over this year, but I think people wanted them to get as close to the CBT as possible. Maybe some wanted them to spend like the Mets and Padres, but those are untrustworthy posters.

[Old Red]

Well Kike was a free agent he was trying to sign, Verdugo is here next year and he doesn't really have a choice right now.

 

I get that part, but if Dugy comes back, or is traded, or is extended changes the needs with the OF.

[Dipre]

I think people's assumptions were that they left too much cushion under the CBT. The problem is that the online tools that calculate the Sox' CBT aren't great at the moment. We now they are under, but can only guess at how far due to bonuses and other issues.

 

They can't go over this year, but I think people wanted them to get as close to the CBT as possible. Maybe some wanted them to spend like the Mets and Padres, but those are untrustworthy posters.

 

Shots fired

[mvp 78]

Raf Man is going to Winter ball to play 2B, so who knows what will happen. Raffy will be at 3B, Story at SS, Casas at 1B, and. Yoshida will be in LF/DH next year. Outside of that the possibilities are endless.

 

He hasn't played in a winter league since 2017. Where was this reported? He's not eligible for the AFL.

[Hugh2]

They will need an extra outfielder - whomever it is. Rafaela is unproven - but I think it's clear at this point that the team should just put him in CF and let it ride. Yoshida can play LF at Fenway, but nowhere else. They really should just trade Verdugo.

 

What if Rafealla can't hit and Duran turns back into a pumpkin? Yoshida can't play LF anywhere, while there is potential there, there's also potential for that outfield to be disastrous and you're also losing Duval to FA.

 

Dugo should NOT be traded. Rafeala might be better with a full season under his belt and Anthony is ready to play full-time in the bigs by 2025. Just let it ride with Dugo and take the QO pick.

[Hugh2]

I get that part, but if Dugy comes back, or is traded, or is extended changes the needs with the OF.

 

Verdugo is under contract for 2023, the outfield is thin and so is the outfielder market so Bloom doesn't really need to sell him on anything.

 

Unless he plans on extending him.

[Old Red]

Rafaela could be a more sustainable version of what Kike brought to the table at minimum. But he has the chance to be one of the best CFs in the entire league.

 

I heard an interview with the Sea Dogs manager yesterday, and he said that the RAF Man could play anywhere on D, but CF would be his best position. It’s good that he can play SS, but CF to me is where he belongs.

[moonslav59]

What if Rafealla can't hit and Duran turns back into a pumpkin? Yoshida can't play LF anywhere, while there is potential there, there's also potential for that outfield to be disastrous and you're also losing Duval to FA.

 

Dugo should NOT be traded. Rafeala might be better with a full season under his belt and Anthony is ready to play full-time in the bigs by 2025. Just let it ride with Dugo and take the QO pick.

 

Your points are valid, but to me, our OF is deeper than C, 1B, MI and 3B.

 

If we are going to make a trade, would you prefer we trade Casas, Wong, Devers, Urias or Reyes? Wouldn't a bigger hole be created there than by trading Dugo, ref or Duran?

 

It's all relative.

[Old Red]

Verdugo is under contract for 2023, the outfield is thin and so is the outfielder market so Bloom doesn't really need to sell him on anything.

 

Unless he plans on extending him.

 

That’s my point. Thin in options, or thin in talent?

[mvp 78]

I heard an interview with the Sea Dogs manager yesterday, and he said that the RAF Man could play anywhere on D, but CF would be his best position. It’s good that he can play SS, but CF to me is where he belongs.

 

100%. I would keep him there and have him play fulltime. If his OPS stays above 700, I'm fine with it.

[Old Red]

What if Rafealla can't hit and Duran turns back into a pumpkin? Yoshida can't play LF anywhere, while there is potential there, there's also potential for that outfield to be disastrous and you're also losing Duval to FA.

 

Dugo should NOT be traded. Rafeala might be better with a full season under his belt and Anthony is ready to play full-time in the bigs by 2025. Just let it ride with Dugo and take the QO pick.

Good questions, and being deep does not necessarily mean it’s talented.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This isn't Tampa North, obviously.

 

Bloom came over from a franchise renown for legendary pitching staff construction. Boston has seen none of that in his four years here.

 

In fact, the Red Sox have had one of the oldest collections of arms in average age (top three, always pushing 30). The Rays' pitching staffs during that time have always been younger than league average... one might even say that is by design, as Tampa always seems to add one fresh arm after another we've never heard of, throwing 100 with a change-up.

 

Maybe the expert pitching recruiter was someone else in their office.

[Old Red]

100%. I would keep him there and have him play fulltime. If his OPS stays above 700, I'm fine with it.

 

I’ve seen him make a couple of great catches in Portland, and I think he’ll be a better complete version of JBJ.

[Hugh2]

Your points are valid, but to me, our OF is deeper than C, 1B, MI and 3B.

 

If we are going to make a trade, would you prefer we trade Casas, Wong, Devers, Urias or Reyes? Wouldn't a bigger hole be created there than by trading Dugo, ref or Duran?

 

It's all relative.

 

The outfield is not deep at all.

 

Verdugo 3.0 WAR

Yoshida 1.4 WAR

Duran 1.4

 

Yoshida can't field, his defense is horrible.

Duran has been up/down, exciting player but he's had two good months and then a lot of subpar play, he could turn back into a pumpkin or just be a 1.5 WAR player.

Dugo, good player but not great and gone after 2024.

 

After that you have role players and bench bats, the best of which Duval is also a FA at the end of this year.

 

Wong/McGuire at Catcher and Teel looking like he's on the fast track. Casas after slow month has turned into one of the best hitters in all of baseball and 1B. Arguably MI is as weak, but if Story is healthy the outlook looks a lot different, especially if Rafaela actually spends time there (making of even weaker) and Reyes and Urias can field their positions and Luis has good offensive upside as well.

 

The outfield has zero depth. What happens if you lose an outfielder and trade Dugo and you're rolling out with Yoshida/Ref/Abreu next year? That could literally be a disaster.

 

You also have a better prospect pipeline closer to the majors up the middle than you do in the OF.

 

I will not answer the question in your statement because I have a very strong preference to NOT trade any of those guys, including Dugo and any of the guys in the outfield.

[Hugh2]

Good questions, and being deep does not necessarily mean it’s talented.

 

I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Did you think I was saying the outfield was deep? if yes then let me just state that I do not think that I think the outfield is very thin. Rafaeala is promising, and Anthony looks like he could be a stud, but Ceddanne is still unproven and Roman at least a year away. So my comments here are in the context of the 2024 season, the outfield is very thin.

 

I think you'd agree, I think most would. Look how lackluster this team is!! shouldn't be a big surprise that they're not particularly deep in many places.

[Old Red]

I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Did you think I was saying the outfield was deep? if yes then let me just state that I do not think that I think the outfield is very thin. Rafaeala is promising, and Anthony looks like he could be a stud, but Ceddanne is still unproven and Roman at least a year away. So my comments here are in the context of the 2024 season, the outfield is very thin.

 

I think you'd agree, I think most would. Look how lackluster this team is!! shouldn't be a big surprise that they're not particularly deep in many places.

No I understood you, and the deep part was referencing someone else. I have said for sometime now that no one knows how good The Raf Man, Abreu, and especially Duran would be next year to plug in full time, and would be a risky proposition to count on it. You know what you have in Dugy, and Yoshida is another adventure.

[moonslav59]

The outfield is not deep at all.

 

Verdugo 3.0 WAR

Yoshida 1.4 WAR

Duran 1.4

 

 

Deeper than C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B and the rotation.

[moonslav59]

 

Yoshida can't field, his defense is horrible.

Duran has been up/down, exciting player but he's had two good months and then a lot of subpar play, he could turn back into a pumpkin or just be a 1.5 WAR player.

Dugo, good player but not great and gone after 2024.

 

After that you have role players and bench bats, the best of which Duval is also a FA at the end of this year.

 

Wong/McGuire at Catcher and Teel looking like he's on the fast track. Casas after slow month has turned into one of the best hitters in all of baseball and 1B. Arguably MI is as weak, but if Story is healthy the outlook looks a lot different, especially if Rafaela actually spends time there (making of even weaker) and Reyes and Urias can field their positions and Luis has good offensive upside as well.

 

The outfield has zero depth. What happens if you lose an outfielder and trade Dugo and you're rolling out with Yoshida/Ref/Abreu next year? That could literally be a disaster.

 

You also have a better prospect pipeline closer to the majors up the middle than you do in the OF.

 

I will not answer the question in your statement because I have a very strong preference to NOT trade any of those guys, including Dugo and any of the guys in the outfield.

 

We have Rafaela and Abreu here, now. You can't get "closer" than that. Rosier may be ML ready, too.

 

Reyes can play OF. Ref is depth. Yoshida will be depth.

 

It's not great depth.

 

It's not a lock on talent in the OF, but if we have to trade a regular, do you prefer a catcher or MI'er?

 

I'm talking 2024 and not about Teel, mayer and Anthony.

 

I'd prefer we don't trade any OF'ers and keep the depth, but if we have to trade someone to upgrade the rotation, what ML'er do you add to the package? (Not someone with negative value.)

[cp176]

100%. I would keep him there and have him play fulltime. If his OPS stays above 700, I'm fine with it.

 

That is where he should be. I hope they don't dink around with him and play him in multiple positions.

[Hugh2]

Deeper than C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B and the rotation.

 

Moon I normally agree with you than most posters in here but I just can't see this at all.

 

Wong is a plus defender behind the dish and McGuire historically was until a down year although he looks like he's found his own form recently. Wong/McGuire is fine. Casas has literally been one of the most elite hitters in all of baseball for the past 3 months, 2B/SS isn't as defensible but they've also been riddled by unprecedented injury. With Story and Reyes back and Urias under contract for the next two years it's at the very least as deep as the OF, and you literally have Rafael Devers at 3B.

 

How many MLB at bats does Abreu and Rafeala have? penciling them in as anything right now is just irresponsible. Ceddanne might be a 2 WAR player with it all coming from his defense and that's fine but he's not better than Casas and Devers, or Story if healthy. Abreu hasn't proven to me he's more than a 4th of/platoon-type.

 

Again, I'm not deciding between the two, if you want to ask me the hypothetical gun to the head I'd respond by saying that this is a PERFECT example of why my opinion that this is why we BUY starting pitching now makes all the sense in the world. We have the money, we have the cap space, and it's the most robust area of 2024 free agency. It would be bonkers to not do so.

[Hugh2]

That is where he should be. I hope they don't dink around with him and play him in multiple positions.

 

I actually wouldn't have a problem with him playing some SS too, he's supposedly an above-average defender there as well.

 

A guy who can play plus defense at SS/CF and is RH would have been exactly what we needed most of this year at various times.

[mvp 78]

Bloom came over from a franchise renown for legendary pitching staff construction. Boston has seen none of that in his four years here.

 

In fact, the Red Sox have had one of the oldest collections of arms in average age (top three, always pushing 30). The Rays' pitching staffs during that time have always been younger than league average... one might even say that is by design, as Tampa always seems to add one fresh arm after another we've never heard of, throwing 100 with a change-up.

 

Maybe the expert pitching recruiter was someone else in their office.

 

He also brought ZERO organization guys over with him. Why?

[redsoxrules]

He's just been fired lol

[cp176]

I actually wouldn't have a problem with him playing some SS too, he's supposedly an above-average defender there as well.

 

A guy who can play plus defense at SS/CF and is RH would have been exactly what we needed most of this year at various times.

 

I have no doubt that he can play wherever I just think that it puts a lot on a kid's plate when you also expect him to hit. With him in cf everyday I think that it makes filling left and right with fielders that we already have more feasible. If Duran is healthy, I still like him even with his defensive baggage . He is capable of helping a team in numerous ways. I don't know might become of Verdugo but he can still play.