Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

The point I missed was you saying guarding the 1st, and 3rd base line was the same as the shift. As for the opener in baseball in my opinion it’s the stupidest thing that baseball has come up with.

 

That was a general “you”. Not you specifically. Really aimed at any manager who trots out bullpen arm #8 as an opener.

 

And it is a clever strategy. The biggest issue with deploying relievers by inning (e.g. setup guy in the 8th inning, closer in the 9th) is you cannot control the quality of hitters they face, and it can be an inefficient use of your best relief arms. But if you use one of those arms in the first inning, you are now using your better relievers to take down their better hitters. When done right, it shortens the game just as much as the traditional setup/closer strategy, just at the other end. But as teams far too often trot out someone like Colten Brewer, they’re not doing the strategy right and are instead just having a bullpen game, which is among the worst strategies in baseball in regards to pitching staff management…

[moonslav59]

And 3.86 in his last 5 starts.

 

I'm starting to look more at Game Scores for starters. A Game Score of 50 is sorta like the new Quality Start.

 

Cutter's 50+ Game Scores by month:

 

April 1

May 0

June 2

July 3

Aug 4

Sep 4

 

Yes, choosing the 6 game sample size was cherry-picking. The 2.94 FIP, which included that blow out game (the 6th from his last start) shows he was not dropping off.

 

To me, Houck is an outstanding pitcher for the first 9 batters and pretty good, the next nine. He's done it for 2+ seasons. One can argue that profiles as a great long man in the pen, and that's true.

 

He's my slight favorite over Crawford, if it comes down to either/or.

 

I choose both over Whitlock.

[notin]

Ryan Weber is still available in free agency.

 

How did MLBTR avoid the temptation to put him on their top 50 list?

[mvp 78]

Yes, your point was and still is spot on.

 

I think everyone agrees he is in the rotation. We'd need to add 3 SP'er to knock him out, so he's 100% in, if healthy.

 

Bello, Gio and Pivetta are locks.

 

The last two slots depend largely on whether we add a SP'er between now and opening day. (Adding two is just a dream I had.)

 

If we don't add any new SP'ers, those last 2 slots go to two of these three pitchers: Houck, Crawford or Whitlock. One begins the year in the pen, unless we decide to go with a 6 man rotation, which is highly unlikely.

 

I have been thinking Whitlock is the obvious pen choice of the three, but he's been bulking up and might have the best stuff of the three, and has more than just 2 pitches that work.

 

I still hope we add 2 SP'ers andf would be happier with 1 than none, but these penny-pinchers might just roll the dice, here. They might be thinking, "let's find out, now, in a non competitive season, if these guys can start, or not."

 

If it's Whitlock, there is certainly an IL stint waiting for him at some point.

[mvp 78]

How did MLBTR avoid the temptation to put him on their top 50 list?

 

They don't value the opener enough possibly?

[Old Red]

Pivetta got better in the pen because he developed a sweeper as I've mentioned a ton of times this offseason. It's why he went back to the rotation and pitched great down the stretch.

 

We’ll see. Pivetta has been good at times before, but he’s never had the consistency over a full season. It’s a contract year too, so sometimes that works out as a good thing.

[notin]

I’m going out on a limb here, but I don’t believe the Red Sox believe in that concept, and if they do they’ve done a pretty poor job implementing it.

 

Bloom simply wanted to improve the farm stream by increasing the number of viable projects. This is more easily accomplished with position players…

[mvp 78]

“I like him,” Roenicke said. “I think he’s got good stuff, I think he commands the ball really good. It’s not the 95 (mph) but his fastball is sneaky. When he puts it where he wants to, mixing up all his pitches, I think he can be a good major-league starter.”

[notin]

They don't value the opener enough possibly?

 

Possibly.

 

Or maybe because they needed another zero in the quantity to get to him on the list. Possibly even two more zeroes…

[notin]

“I like him,” Roenicke said. “I think he’s got good stuff, I think he commands the ball really good. It’s not the 95 (mph) but his fastball is sneaky. When he puts it where he wants to, mixing up all his pitches, I think he can be a good major-league starter.”

 

 

Who was Roenicke talking about?

[mvp 78]

Bloom simply wanted to improve the farm stream by increasing the number of viable projects. This is more easily accomplished with position players…

 

Wow, he needed to ride with training wheels!?!?!? How quaint!

[mvp 78]

Who was Roenicke talking about?

 

The Grill Master.

[notin]

Wow, he needed to ride with training wheels!?!?!? How quaint!

 

Oh he definitely went about it the easy way. It was basically “farm system ranking for the sake of farm system ranking”…

[Old Red]

That was a general “you”. Not you specifically. Really aimed at any manager who trots out bullpen arm #8 as an opener.

 

And it is a clever strategy. The biggest issue with deploying relievers by inning (e.g. setup guy in the 8th inning, closer in the 9th) is you cannot control the quality of hitters they face, and it can be an inefficient use of your best relief arms. But if you use one of those arms in the first inning, you are now using your better relievers to take down their better hitters. When done right, it shortens the game just as much as the traditional setup/closer strategy, just at the other end. But as teams far too often trot out someone like Colten Brewer, they’re not doing the strategy right and are instead just having a bullpen game, which is among the worst strategies in baseball in regards to pitching staff management…

 

The point to me is if you just use a starter in the first place you might not even need 1 inning from the Bern Man at all, or any other opener. Nothing clever about that scenario at all.

[notin]

The Grill Master.

 

Casey Coleman?

[mvp 78]

Some choice quotes from Bloom prior to the start of 2020:

 

Chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom spoke honestly about the state of the Red Sox’s starting rotation.

 

“It’s definitely more unsettled than I think you would want, in a vacuum,” Bloom said during a Zoom call Friday.

 

“Now with that said, I think you look at someone like Nate and he’s shown that when he’s at his best, he can hang with any of those guys. ... For us to have a good season from a run prevention standpoint, I think some of these guys are going to have to step up. They’re going to have the opportunity to do so. They all have different ingredients that they bring to the table that give us reasons to be optimistic. Obviously time will tell. We’re going to learn some things about them as we go along. But I think to keep runs off the board, we’re going to need some good work out of some of those guys.”

 

The group who Bloom is referencing includes Chris Mazza, Matt Hall, Jeffrey Springs, Kyle Hart, Colten Brewer and Mike Shawaryn who all could be used as openers or provide three or four innings following the opener.

 

[mvp 78]

Oh he definitely went about it the easy way. It was basically “farm system ranking for the sake of farm system ranking”…

 

Don't deal any prospects. Take best player available. Take all SS's because you can "just move them wherever." No risky picks or signings. Hoard like TLC is going to be coming over after the year.

[moonslav59]

TBD if Crag has a different philosophy than what we've seen recently. Bloom built up the farm, but did so without any focus on pitching whatsoever.

 

The fact that his best farm pen additions came via trade (Winckowski,) Waivers (Schreiber & Bernardino) and Rule 5 (Whitlock) is pretty telling. Neither were really "developed" by our system, although one could argue maybe a little bit.

 

Others added via trade:

Isaiah Campbell (Brez guy)

Grant Gambrell

(Connor Seabold)

 

Rule 5:

Justin Slaten (Brez guy)

 

Waivers/ MiLFA:

Kelly

Max Castillo (Brez guy)

Zack Weiss

 

[notin]

The point to me is if you just use a starter in the first place you might not even need 1 inning from the Bern Man at all, or any other opener. Nothing clever about that scenario at all.

 

The complete game died out with grunge, baggy pants, and “Northern Exposure”…

[moonslav59]

Some choice quotes from Bloom prior to the start of 2020:

 

Chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom spoke honestly about the state of the Red Sox’s starting rotation.

 

“It’s definitely more unsettled than I think you would want, in a vacuum,” Bloom said during a Zoom call Friday.

 

“Now with that said, I think you look at someone like Nate and he’s shown that when he’s at his best, he can hang with any of those guys. ... For us to have a good season from a run prevention standpoint, I think some of these guys are going to have to step up. They’re going to have the opportunity to do so. They all have different ingredients that they bring to the table that give us reasons to be optimistic. Obviously time will tell. We’re going to learn some things about them as we go along. But I think to keep runs off the board, we’re going to need some good work out of some of those guys.”

 

The group who Bloom is referencing includes Chris Mazza, Matt Hall, Jeffrey Springs, Kyle Hart, Colten Brewer and Mike Shawaryn who all could be used as openers or provide three or four innings following the opener.

 

 

Was this after they knew Sale and ERod would miss the 2020 season?

[Old Red]

The complete game died out with grunge, baggy pants, and “Northern Exposure”…

 

Who said anything about a complete game???

[notin]

Who said anything about a complete game???

 

Then what difference does it make if you bring in your reliever in the first inning or the 6th or 7th?

 

There is an obvious difference actually…

[Bellhorn04]

Then what difference does it make if you bring in your reliever in the first inning or the 6th or 7th?

 

There is an obvious difference actually…

 

Answering your own questions now?

[notin]

Answering your own questions now?

 

 

Sometimes it’s the only way to get the correct answer

[Old Red]

Then what difference does it make if you bring in your reliever in the first inning or the 6th or 7th?

 

There is an obvious difference actually…

 

How do you know that you would even need your #8 BP man in the game at all? Using him as an opener just doesn’t make sense to me. That’s the obvious difference to me.

[Old Red]

Sometimes it’s the only way to get the correct answer

 

It may be your opinion, but who’s to say it’s the correct answer?

[notin]

How do you know that you would even need your #8 BP man in the game at all? Using him as an opener just doesn’t make sense to me. That’s the obvious difference to me.

 

I said using the #8 guy is not deploying the strategy properly. You need to use someone of setup caliber. The Rays used to use Sergio Romo as an opener, for example…

[Old Red]

I said using the #8 guy is not deploying the strategy properly. You need to use someone of setup caliber. The Rays used to use Sergio Romo as an opener, for example…

 

Most times you don’t bring someone in to a ballgame unless they are needed. You don’t know whomever you use as an opener on any given day would be needed in the first place.

[Bellhorn04]

I said using the #8 guy is not deploying the strategy properly. You need to use someone of setup caliber. The Rays used to use Sergio Romo as an opener, for example…

 

It looks like the Rays did that 5 times in 2018 and that was it.

[mvp 78]

The complete game died out with grunge, baggy pants, and “Northern Exposure”…

 

Grunge can't be dead. Melvins are still putting out albums.