Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox must have given Brez a 30-day time out after the Giolito signing.

[Old Red]

They may figure out a way to get these guys to do better as starters. They all have some "nasty stuff," so maybe it works out.

 

I'm just really keen on having a pen with 2-3 solid long relievers that can go 4-5 innings, if needed, even 6+ in some cases- like Crawford and Pivetta did, last year.

If the SP is that bad that the BP long relievers have to come in, and go 4+ innings very often it’s not going to matter that much anyway.

[Old Red]

The Sox must have given Brez a 30-day time out after the Giolito signing.

 

It took him a long time to get Bailey as the pitching coach.

[Bellhorn04]

They may figure out a way to get these guys to do better as starters. They all have some "nasty stuff," so maybe it works out.

 

I'm just really keen on having a pen with 2-3 solid long relievers that can go 4-5 innings, if needed, even 6+ in some cases- like Crawford and Pivetta did, last year.

 

If a guy can give you 6 solid innings in relief on a repeated basis I'd argue he should be in the rotation.

[Bellhorn04]

It took him a long time to get Bailey as the pitching coach.

 

They probably have him focusing 100% on pitcher development stuff now, since he's not allowed to spend any more for this year.

 

How do you like this org so far, Craig? Thing of beauty, isn't it?

[moonslav59]

The Sox must have given Brez a 30-day time out after the Giolito signing.

 

It has been a long eerie silence.

 

It would be nice to hear of a major signing, but I seriously doubt it happens, despite rumors of falling prices.

 

[Old Red]

If a guy can give you 6 solid innings in relief on a repeated basis I'd argue he should be in the rotation.

 

Exactly. Like I’ve said outside of Gio, Bello, and maybe Pivetta the rest are just cheap options, which the Red Sox love, and probably all of the rest will get a shot at various times this year.

[notin]

If a guy can give you 6 solid innings in relief on a repeated basis I'd argue he should be in the rotation.

 

Unless you like the opener strategy...

[Old Red]

Unless you like the opener strategy...

 

🙈🤭🤮!

[moonslav59]

Thought I'd dredge this up again for the *sake of argument*.

 

Just looking at Crawford's 2023 game log, and one of his relief outings was 6.1 nearly immaculate innings on April 17, which skews his starter/reliever splits a tad.

 

It's interesting to note that he never went 6.1 as a starter in 2023.

 

I worry about Kutter's ability to start 28+ games or give us 160+ IP, without dropping off.

 

He did finish 2023 with a 5.40 ERA over his last 6 starts. In his defense, his FIP was 2.94, and his last start of the season was 6 IP 1 H 0 ER 0 BB & 7 Ks.

 

If you switch those 6.1 IP to the SP totals and subtract from the RP totals, his splits go from....

 

4.51 as a SP to 4.20

1.66 as RP to 2.34

 

BTW, Pivetta also had that great and long RP game:

6 IP

2 Hits

2 BB

13 Ks

0 ER

 

He had 3 others with 5 IP (2 ER, 0 ER and 2 ER)

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Unless you like the opener strategy...

 

Sox RP'er games with 4+ IP:

 

Pivetta: 6 (and 4 with 3.0- 3.2 IP)

Crawford: 2 (1 with 3 IP)

Murphy: 3 (6 between 3.0 and 3.2)

 

That's 11 times a RP'er went 4+ and 22 times at 3 IP or more. (About once a week.)

 

Houck started 100% in '23.

[mvp 78]

Who said I think Wink has a better track record at starting. I’m just repeating what Bres said that Gio, Bello, Pivetta, and Kut Man would be the starters, and the other spot would come from the 3 I mentioned. I repeat this was from Bres, and not me, so feel free to go after Bres. I’ve been saying this since the report came out a week, or two ago, but you were probably to engrossed in Bauer or trying to count how many declined to interview for Bres job. Try to keep up a little.

 

Crag said they are giving them all the chance to start and stretching them out, but Winck has zero shot of starting in this rotation unless there are a bunch of injuries.

[mvp 78]

Pivetta’s stuff played up better in the pen too after he got taken out of the rotation, but unfortunately it doesn’t look like any more pitchers aren’t coming from FA, and no trades are going to be made, so the rotation has to be filled out from somewhere just like they have tried with Houck, and Whit the last two years.

 

Pivetta got better in the pen because he developed a sweeper as I've mentioned a ton of times this offseason. It's why he went back to the rotation and pitched great down the stretch.

[Hitch]

The Sox must have given Brez a 30-day time out after the Giolito signing.

 

Yeah, it's definitely his fault the market isn't moving.

[mvp 78]

We know the answer now: Bloom was too bold and liked to spend too much.

 

Sox need pitching, but they don't want to spend on it.

 

They have the 4th ranked farm system, but the pitching is ranked 29th out of 30. The farm is just stacked with everyday guys.

[notin]

!

 

When done correctly (i.e. not with Joe Jacques), the opener is a clever matchup strategy. But the Sox and a couple other teams just employed it with random backend relievers, in which case you miss the entire point…

[mvp 78]

And that's much bolder than Brez so far.

 

I disagree. Bloom could never trade Verdugo or Sale. After Mookie, he tried moving Vaz and then couldn't trade another player again.

[notin]

Sox need pitching, but they don't want to spend on it.

 

They have the 4th ranked farm system, but the pitching is ranked 29th out of 30. The farm is just stacked with everyday guys.

 

Some of whom should be traded for pitching at some point…

[mvp 78]

It has been a long eerie silence.

 

It would be nice to hear of a major signing, but I seriously doubt it happens, despite rumors of falling prices.

 

 

Kyle Boddy is as good as it gets for now.

[mvp 78]

If a guy can give you 6 solid innings in relief on a repeated basis I'd argue he should be in the rotation.

 

Houck could never.

[notin]

I disagree. Bloom could never trade Verdugo or Sale. After Mookie, he tried moving Vaz and then couldn't trade another player again.

 

Bloom actually did ok with the Vazquez trade, getting two MLB-capable players for two months of a catcher. But he wouldn’t just do salary dumps. If he wasn’t getting some legitimate (in his assessment) prospect, he wouldn’t make the deal…

[mvp 78]

Unless you like the opener strategy...

 

Ryan Weber is still available in free agency.

[mvp 78]

It's interesting to note that he never went 6.1 as a starter in 2023.

 

I worry about Kutter's ability to start 28+ games or give us 160+ IP, without dropping off.

 

He did finish 2023 with a 5.40 ERA over his last 6 starts. In his defense, his FIP was 2.94, and his last start of the season was 6 IP 1 H 0 ER 0 BB & 7 Ks.

 

If you switch those 6.1 IP to the SP totals and subtract from the RP totals, his splits go from....

 

4.51 as a SP to 4.20

1.66 as RP to 2.34

 

BTW, Pivetta also had that great and long RP game:

6 IP

2 Hits

2 BB

13 Ks

0 ER

 

He had 3 others with 5 IP (2 ER, 0 ER and 2 ER)

 

 

 

 

His final start of the year (for a guy who dropped off):

 

9/30

6 IP

1 H

0 BB

7 K

0 R

 

It was the best start of his season... after dropping off and being tired or whatever...

[mvp 78]

Some of whom should be traded for pitching at some point…

 

Develop your own pitching and you can have them for SIX YEARS before they are even done with arbitration!

[mvp 78]

Bloom actually did ok with the Vazquez trade, getting two MLB-capable players for two months of a catcher. But he wouldn’t just do salary dumps. If he wasn’t getting some legitimate (in his assessment) prospect, he wouldn’t make the deal…

 

Big mistake IMO.

[Old Red]

When done correctly (i.e. not with Joe Jacques), the opener is a clever matchup strategy. But the Sox and a couple other teams just employed it with random backend relievers, in which case you miss the entire point…

 

The point I missed was you saying guarding the 1st, and 3rd base line was the same as the shift. As for the opener in baseball in my opinion it’s the stupidest thing that baseball has come up with.

[Old Red]

Develop your own pitching and you can have them for SIX YEARS before they are even done with arbitration!

 

I’m going out on a limb here, but I don’t believe the Red Sox believe in that concept, and if they do they’ve done a pretty poor job implementing it.

[Bellhorn04]

It's interesting to note that he never went 6.1 as a starter in 2023.

 

I worry about Kutter's ability to start 28+ games or give us 160+ IP, without dropping off.

 

He did finish 2023 with a 5.40 ERA over his last 6 starts. In his defense, his FIP was 2.94, and his last start of the season was 6 IP 1 H 0 ER 0 BB & 7 Ks.

 

And 3.86 in his last 5 starts.

 

I'm starting to look more at Game Scores for starters. A Game Score of 50 is sorta like the new Quality Start.

 

Cutter's 50+ Game Scores by month:

 

April 1

May 0

June 2

July 3

Aug 4

Sep 4

[moonslav59]

Pivetta got better in the pen because he developed a sweeper as I've mentioned a ton of times this offseason. It's why he went back to the rotation and pitched great down the stretch.

 

Yes, your point was and still is spot on.

 

I think everyone agrees he is in the rotation. We'd need to add 3 SP'er to knock him out, so he's 100% in, if healthy.

 

Bello, Gio and Pivetta are locks.

 

The last two slots depend largely on whether we add a SP'er between now and opening day. (Adding two is just a dream I had.)

 

If we don't add any new SP'ers, those last 2 slots go to two of these three pitchers: Houck, Crawford or Whitlock. One begins the year in the pen, unless we decide to go with a 6 man rotation, which is highly unlikely.

 

I have been thinking Whitlock is the obvious pen choice of the three, but he's been bulking up and might have the best stuff of the three, and has more than just 2 pitches that work.

 

I still hope we add 2 SP'ers andf would be happier with 1 than none, but these penny-pinchers might just roll the dice, here. They might be thinking, "let's find out, now, in a non competitive season, if these guys can start, or not."

[mvp 78]

I’m going out on a limb here, but I don’t believe the Red Sox believe in that concept, and if they do they’ve done a pretty poor job implementing it.

 

TBD if Crag has a different philosophy than what we've seen recently. Bloom built up the farm, but did so without any focus on pitching whatsoever.