Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

Agree 100%. Overhyped, and overpriced. Complete dog, and pony show that the Red Sox shouldn’t even have shown up for considering the competition.

 

Is there any recent FA you think was worth the cost?

[Old Red]

Is there any recent FA you think was worth the cost?

 

I answered that before any of this FA period started when all the estimates were a lot lower. No, no, and no. Trade, trade, trade.

[Bellhorn04]

Let's not cry a river over losing out on Yamamoto. The guy has been as over hyped as anyone in recent memory and without having yet accomplished anything in MLB. He may turn out to be a bit of an expensive disappointment or even a total flop. Go get a couple of good, established winning pitchers for less money. It is not too late to do that.

 

But it's getting late.

[Bellhorn04]

I answered that before any of this FA period started when all the estimates were a lot lower. No, no, and no. Trade, trade, trade.

 

If they trade for Burnes they'll have to give up a top prospect and pay him at free agent prices.

 

Trades aren't a slam-dunk either.

[Old Red]

If they trade for Burnes they'll have to give up a top prospect and pay him at free agent prices.

 

Trades aren't a slam-dunk either.

I want trades for younger pitchers who still have control left, and yes I fully understand that trades are far from a guarantee, but I would rather give up a prospect then overpay for guys like Monty, and Snell. To me the Red Sox have waited way too long to try, and make the starting pitching better. I don’t subscribe to the theory like most that you have to be on the verge of winning right now to improve things. Look how much salaries up gone up just the last two years.

[notin]

I want trades for younger pitchers who still have control left, and yes I fully understand that trades are far from a guarantee, but I would rather give up a prospect then overpay for guys like Monty, and Snell. To me the Red Sox have waited way too long to try, and make the starting pitching better. I don’t subscribe to the theory like most that you have to be on the verge of winning right now to improve things. Look how much salaries up gone up just the last two years.

 

I’m fully on board with this strategy, but those pitchers for obvious reasons, are the least available. And typically not for “a prospect.”

 

They’re not unavailable all the time. But the prospect cost limits you to one unless you prefer project types that may not work out. (My repeated suggestion of Edward Cabrera is a good example here.)

[Bellhorn04]

I’m fully on board with this strategy, but those pitchers for obvious reasons, are the least available. And typically not for “a prospect.”

 

They’re not unavailable all the time. But the prospect cost limits you to one unless you prefer project types that may not work out. (My repeated suggestion of Edward Cabrera is a good example here.)

 

We have enough projects already, I think. That's why we need a more proven quantity.

[jad]

Trade? How many mediocre assets do you get rid of to replace with other mediocre assets? (Remember, the condition is that you absolutely cannot spend money or offer a market-value trade.)

[Bellhorn04]

Trade? How many mediocre assets do you get rid of to replace with other mediocre assets? (Remember, the condition is that you absolutely cannot spend money or offer a market-value trade.)

 

You know, a serious trade, like Moncada and Kopech for Sale.

[moonslav59]

You know, a serious trade, like Moncada and Kopech for Sale.

 

Sale had a very affordable contract and two option years (3 yrs total), when we traded for him. He was an ace among aces, at the time, too. The only real risk seemed to be an injury.

 

I'm trying to find a comp to his type in MLB, now. Who trades a guy like Sale with 3 affordable years left, these days?

 

There are guys similar to Sale with 1 year left, who might be available.

 

There are some really good looking or promising pitchers with 3-5 years left, who might end up near what Sale was, but none I know of are even close to the sure bet he was.

 

Please don't jump on me, as if I am saying these guys do or can someday compare to Sale in his prime, but these might be the few available pitchers with 3 or more years of control:

 

BTV Value (Est cost/Years)

64 Luzardo ($29M/3)

58 Garrett ($46M/5)

49 F Valdez ($30M/2- just 2 years!)

33 M Keller ($15M/2- also just 2 years and certainly no potential prime Chris Sale.)

25 Rogers ($33M/3)

23 Singer ($24M/3)

17 Castillo ($122M/5, not cheap but still a bargain at today's prices)

 

I don't see the LAA parting with Detmers (45 and $46M/4 ) or Sandoval (37 and $24M/3.) Who else is even a long shot possibility?

 

Harmony tells us the Mariners would want a big bat with many years of control left.

 

Maybe our best chance at a trade is with Miami, and no, not for E Cab. (Sorry, notin.)

 

I don't see how "trade, trade, trade can work. I can't even find one.

 

Would MIA or anyone here be okay with:

 

Mayer, Rafaela and Mata for Garrett

 

or

 

Mayer & Crawford for Luzardo

 

or

 

Anthony, Crawford & Mata for Luzardo?

 

It might take Anthony, Teel and Wikelman for Luzardo.

 

This is really better than signing Monty or Imanaga and Stroman?

[moonslav59]

CBT Payments for 2023:

 

$Millions

101 NYM (year 2)

39.7 SDP (year 3)

32.4 NYY (year 2)

19.4 LAD (year 3)

7.0 PHI (year 2)

5.5 TOR (year 1)

3.2 ATL (year 1)

1.8 TEX (year 1)

[jad]

The RS cannot trade their way out of the mess JH has created. They can buy their way out of it, but you know ...

[harmony]

Sale had a very affordable contract and two option years (3 yrs total), when we traded for him. He was an ace among aces, at the time, too. The only real risk seemed to be an injury.

 

I'm trying to find a comp to his type in MLB, now. Who trades a guy like Sale with 3 affordable years left, these days?

 

BTV Value (Est cost/Years)

64 Luzardo ($29M/3)

58 Garrett ($46M/5)

49 F Valdez ($30M/2- just 2 years!)

33 M Keller ($15M/2- also just 2 years and certainly no potential prime Chris Sale.)

25 Rogers ($33M/3)

23 Singer ($24M/3)

17 Castillo ($122M/5, not cheap but still a bargain at today's prices)

Harmony tells us the Mariners would want a big bat with many years of control left.

FWIW Luis Castillo is guaranteed $91 million over four seasons with a $25 million vesting option for a fifth season. Castillo's $7 million signing bonus was paid within 60 days of the contract's approval but is spread across the life of the contract for luxury tax purposes.

 

The Red Sox and Mariners probably do not match up in a trade.

[moonslav59]

The RS cannot trade their way out of the mess JH has created. They can buy their way out of it, but you know ...

 

DD had to spend and trade to build a winner. Theo did, too.

 

We have not trade top prospects since the Sale trade. (Beeks and Aldo Ramirez are the highest ranked prospects traded since then.)

 

We extended Devers just to keep treading water. We've signed Story and Yoshaid. Those are the largest since JD (Price for Story.)

 

We've really done neither for over 5 years.

 

If the plan was to hoard prospects for a 5 year rebuild, then we should have just been up front about it and had some fire sales. We'd be in much better shape had we gotten someone for these guys we held, just to sham the fans into thinking or almost thinking we had a chance.

[moonslav59]

FWIW Luis Castillo is guaranteed $91 million over four seasons with a $25 million vesting option for a fifth season. Castillo's $7 million signing bonus was paid within 60 days of the contract's approval but is spread across the life of the contract for luxury tax purposes.

 

The Red Sox and Mariners probably do not match up in a trade.

 

We can handle the $21.6 AAV on the CBT.

 

We know the Sox have no players you think are worthy of the mighty Mariner roster.

 

Maybe, a third team can be roped in to give you something worthy or replacing Castillo.

[harmony]

Alex Verdugo speaks out about the Red Sox and the offseason:

 

 

[moonslav59]

Alex Verdugo speaks out about the Red Sox and the offseason:

 

 

 

We lanced the cancerous tumor.

[moonslav59]

FWIW Luis Castillo is guaranteed $91 million over four seasons with a $25 million vesting option for a fifth season. Castillo's $7 million signing bonus was paid within 60 days of the contract's approval but is spread across the life of the contract for luxury tax purposes.

 

The Red Sox and Mariners probably do not match up in a trade.

 

You must disagree with the $17M net value given to Castillo. (I do, too.) That is half the value they give Duran, who do think is over-valued by them.

 

Rafaela is valued at 12.3, but I'm sure you don't think he has any value to the mighty Mariners, either.

 

If we sign Teoscar, I'd trade Duran and Rafaela for Castillo and a little cash.

[harmony]

We can handle the $21.6 AAV on the CBT.

 

We know the Sox have no players you think are worthy of the mighty Mariner roster.

Maybe, a third team can be roped in to give you something worthy or replacing Castillo.

Much has been written about the strength of Seattle's pitching but this year the Mariners' core up-the-middle trio of Cal Raleigh, J.P. Crawford and Julio Rodriguez combined for 15.5 fWAR, more than all Red Sox position players combined (13.6).

 

Regression may await a Seattle lineup that appears out of balance.

[harmony]

Alex Verdugo speaks out about the Red Sox and the offseason:

 

 

Jonathan Papelbon responds to Alex Verdugo:

 

 

:rolleyes:

[harmony]

The Red Sox reportedly are interested in lefthander James Paxton:

 

[redsoxrules]

The Red Sox reportedly are interested in lefthander James Paxton:

 

 

Woo-hoo WS here we come

[moonslav59]

Much has been written about the strength of Seattle's pitching but this year the Mariners' core up-the-middle trio of Cal Raleigh, J.P. Crawford and Julio Rodriguez combined for 15.5 fWAR, more than all Red Sox position players combined (13.6).

 

Regression may await a Seattle lineup that appears out of balance.

 

Duran should not play CF, so I'm not sure why SEA's up the middle WAR numbers matter.

 

I was not joking, when I said no Sox player is good enough for you. SEA is better at every position.

 

Maybe a pitcher or two could crack your 13, but that's about it.

[moonslav59]

Woo-hoo WS here we come

 

Paxton & Teoscar!

 

Full Throttle!

[harmony]

Duran should not play CF, so I'm not sure why SEA's up the middle WAR numbers matter.

 

I was not joking, when I said no Sox player is good enough for you. SEA is better at every position.

 

Maybe a pitcher or two could crack your 13, but that's about it.

The Red Sox could use Luis Urias, whom this poster was high on after each of his trades to the Sox and the Mariners.

 

Urias comes with risks but an upside is there.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox could use Luis Urias, whom this poster was high on after each of his trades to the Sox and the Mariners.

 

Urias comes with risks but an upside is there.

 

I'm looking at improving the Sox with very good pitching.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox reportedly are interested in lefthander James Paxton:

 

 

"Strong interest."

 

ERA/FIP

2.70/3.22 first 9 starts

4.21/5.27 next 7 starts

14.90/10.08 last 3 starts

 

First 15 GS (80.1 IP)

3.36 ERA

3.85 FIP

[Randy Red Sox]

Paxton & Teoscar!

 

Full Throttle!

 

Red Sox have become the laughing stock of MLB. Hernandez would of made sense signing but now they have the juicer so where is the need?? Why not bring in Kluber to complement Paxton. f***ING JOKE !!

[moonslav59]

Red Sox have become the laughing stock of MLB. Hernandez would of made sense signing but now they have the juicer so where is the need?? Why not bring in Kluber to complement Paxton. f***ING JOKE !!

 

Until Sox nation votes with their feet and cancelation of their NESN, I fear nothing is going to change.

 

The sad thing is, the fans bear the brunt of the joke.

[sk7326]

The Red Sox reportedly are interested in lefthander James Paxton:

 

 

Obviously if this is the move, LOL ... but if they have a Top 2 starter in mind AND Paxton, fine