8/06 Jays @ SOX

[FredLynn]

If anyone should be embarrassed it's Henry and Bloom. They must already be looking forward to the next meet-and-greet with the fans.

 

They recognized that this team isn’t salvageable. So why waste prospects and talent on a list cause?

I agree with their decision for this year.

[notin]

If anyone should be embarrassed it's Henry and Bloom. They must already be looking forward to the next meet-and-greet with the fans.

 

I know you like to exonerate Cora, but what makes you think he had no input into the lack of moves at the deadline?

[moonslav59]

They recognized that this team isn’t salvageable. So why waste prospects and talent on a list cause?

I agree with their decision for this year.

 

It sure looks like they felt this way.

 

They should have "sold," if they felt that way.

 

This whole trying to con the fans thing never works and makes the longer term outlook worse than it could have been.

[moonslav59]

I know you like to exonerate Cora, but what makes you think he had no input into the lack of moves at the deadline?

 

He did make a few comments that made it sound like he wanted help and that October should be the main priority.

 

I don't think he meant October 2025.

[Tedballgame]

They recognized that this team isn’t salvageable. So why waste prospects and talent on a list cause?

I agree with their decision for this year.

 

They should have sold off anyone of value who is going to be a free agent next year or the year after (Turner, Verdugo, Paxton, Martin, Jansen)

[moonslav59]

They should have sold off anyone of value who is going to be a free agent next year or the year after (Turner, Verdugo, Paxton, Martin, Jansen)

 

That would also include:

 

Duvall (after this year)

 

After next year:

Pivetta

Urias

 

 

[notin]

He did make a few comments that made it sound like he wanted help and that October should be the main priority.

 

I don't think he meant October 2025.

 

 

Bloom also listed off a bunch of areas (back of the rotation, back of the bullpen, left-handed hitting middle infielder) he was targeting. At some point all that changed.

 

Possibly a simple conversation

 

Bloom: Do you think you can hold on with what you have until all the injured players get back?

Cora: I think so.

 

Nothing on this forum would convince Cora wasn’t in the loop. Because, let’s face it, he was. No GM doesn’t talk to their manager at some point. I’m not saying Cora’s at fault, but I am saying he was part of the plan at the deadline…

[vegasbob]

Based on the IL players returning, it seems to be a moving target that gets later and later. I agree the promise of adding a Sale, Story, Whitlock, Houck sounds highly encouraging, the clock and calendar are ticking away.

 

I have come to think that a Yalie philosopher like Bloom and hedge fund billionaire like Henry actually have very few people skills. They can read spreadsheets , and do regression analysis but have no concept of a dynamic built around 26++ personalities in their clubhouse. The numbers say that that this and that proposition should pay off over big samples , but it says nothing about winning today.

 

There could be no two more disimilar personalities on multple fronts than Chaim Bloom and Alex Cora. How those two could have anything in common is beyond me. When Cora or Bloom eventually go, the exit interview transcripts would be priceless.

[Tedballgame]

That would also include:

 

Duvall (after this year)

 

After next year:

Pivetta

Urias

 

 

 

Yes, to Duvall and Pivetta. They traded for Urias at the deadline so they couldn't really trade him.

[Randy Red Sox]

Cora may have been allowed to voice his opinions but would have no real authority in completing any trades. That is on Bloom. Yes he probably runs trade ideas past Cora but at the end of the day BLOOM ALONE is responsible.

Bloom also listed off a bunch of areas (back of the rotation, back of the bullpen, left-handed hitting middle infielder) he was targeting. At some point all that changed.

 

Possibly a simple conversation

 

Bloom: Do you think you can hold on with what you have until all the injured players get back?

Cora: I think so.

 

Nothing on this forum would convince Cora wasn’t in the loop. Because, let’s face it, he was. No GM doesn’t talk to their manager at some point. I’m not saying Cora’s at fault, but I am saying he was part of the plan at the deadline…

[Randy Red Sox]

all these guys are going to walk for nothing again--just like last yr's impending FA's. Well done Mr Bloom !!!

Yes, to Duvall and Pivetta. They traded for Urias at the deadline so they couldn't really trade him.

[FredLynn]

It sure looks like they felt this way.

 

They should have "sold," if they felt that way.

 

This whole trying to con the fans thing never works and makes the longer term outlook worse than it could have been.

 

I agree. They shouldn’t have put the players (and the fans) in limbo. It’s a slap in the face for the players and it’s got to be demoralizing for them. Not sure who they could have traded for someone valuable in the future but what they did was indecisive.

[moonslav59]

I agree. They shouldn’t have put the players (and the fans) in limbo. It’s a slap in the face for the players and it’s got to be demoralizing for them. Not sure who they could have traded for someone valuable in the future but what they did was indecisive.

 

They want to think if they can snow the fans, they will keep buying tickets and NESN subscriptions. It's obvious why they lie.

 

I'd be okay, if they just told the truth and went all in on a 5 year plan. Instead, they play it halfway and get nothing: now wins now, no fans support for the BS and an extended future that could have been much better.

 

[Old Red]

I know you like to exonerate Cora, but what makes you think he had no input into the lack of moves at the deadline?

 

When Cora made the statement that it doesn’t matter how many prospects you have, or what your farm ranking is. What matters most is what you do, or don’t do in October. That was a clear shot at Bloom, and not an agreement.

[Old Red]

They recognized that this team isn’t salvageable. So why waste prospects and talent on a list cause?

I agree with their decision for this year.

 

Henry, and Bloom should recognize this team isn’t salvageable. They made it that way.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom also listed off a bunch of areas (back of the rotation, back of the bullpen, left-handed hitting middle infielder) he was targeting. At some point all that changed.

 

Possibly a simple conversation

 

Bloom: Do you think you can hold on with what you have until all the injured players get back?

Cora: I think so.

 

Nothing on this forum would convince Cora wasn’t in the loop. Because, let’s face it, he was. No GM doesn’t talk to their manager at some point. I’m not saying Cora’s at fault, but I am saying he was part of the plan at the deadline…

 

"At some point all that changed."

 

So in your scenario, Cora may have actually talked Bloom out of doing anything. That's humorous.

[notin]

"At some point all that changed."

 

So in your scenario, Cora may have actually talked Bloom out of doing anything. That's humorous.

 

 

Well, he might have said what Bloom wanted to hear.

 

It’s probably more realistic than your scenario where Cora begs for pitching, and Bloom channels his inner Mr.Bumble. “You want more pitching?!? You’ll use what you have and hope I don’t trade it away instead!!”

[Bellhorn04]

Well, he might have said what Bloom wanted to hear.

 

It’s probably more realistic than your scenario where Cora begs for pitching, and Bloom channels his inner Mr.Bumble. “You want more pitching?!? You’ll use what you have and hope I don’t trade it away instead!!”

 

That wasn't my scenario. The crazy thing is, Old Red seems to have it nailed better than anyone when he talks about Bloom looking for the third fork in the road. That pretty much describes the last two deadlines.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe we're just being greedy. Bloom did add Kluber to the rotation this year, after all. That should have been plenty.

[Old Red]

Well, he might have said what Bloom wanted to hear.

 

It’s probably more realistic than your scenario where Cora begs for pitching, and Bloom channels his inner Mr.Bumble. “You want more pitching?!? You’ll use what you have and hope I don’t trade it away instead!!”

This is farthest from the truth than anything to me, and the most unrealistic. I don’t know why it’s so hard for some to think it’s so far fetched that Cora, and the players are gong out there to win now despite at times looking like Little Leaguers, and actually has the concept that getting into the post season of 2023 is most important, and not 2027 when hardly anyone will still be here anymore anyways.

[notin]

That wasn't my scenario. The crazy thing is, Old Red seems to have it nailed better than anyone when he talks about Bloom looking for the third fork in the road. That pretty much describes the last two deadlines.

 

1. You were thinking it. Admit it.

2. How many “Bloom shopped player X” rumors were there? Did any of these really happen? There were stories about he could or should trade Verdugo. (Including one by non-insider me.) And there was another that any GM found the price tag exorbitantly high. I would expect the price tag to be high on any player not being shipped.

[notin]

This is farthest from the truth than anything to me, and the most unrealistic. I don’t know why it’s so hard for some to think it’s so far fetched that Cora, and the players are gong out there to win now despite at times looking like Little Leaguers, and actually has the concept that getting into the post season of 2023 is most important, and not 2027 when hardly anyone will still be here anymore anyways.

 

 

The “truth to me” is a non-existent concept. There is only one truth.

 

Now the theory that Cora was on board and agreed it would be best to simply use the returning players is absolutely a possibility.

 

Both Bloom and Cora talked about team needs, none of which were prohibitively expensive. Something made those needs not happen.

[Bellhorn04]

The “truth to me” is a non-existent concept. There is only one truth.

 

Now the theory that Cora was on board and agreed it would be best to simply use the returning players is absolutely a possibility.

 

Both Bloom and Cora talked about team needs, none of which were prohibitively expensive. Something made those needs not happen.

 

Bloom has kind of proven to be a master of making things not happen, especially investing in the rotation.

[notin]

Bloom has kind of proven to be a master of making things not happen, especially investing in the rotation.

 

He certainly bears that responsibility, but do you think he works with Cora or operates independently that way?

[Old Red]

The “truth to me” is a non-existent concept. There is only one truth.

 

Now the theory that Cora was on board and agreed it would be best to simply use the returning players is absolutely a possibility.

 

Both Bloom and Cora talked about team needs, none of which were prohibitively expensive. Something made those needs not happen.

 

That’s an easy one. BLOOM.

[Old Red]

The “truth to me” is a non-existent concept. There is only one truth.

 

Now the theory that Cora was on board and agreed it would be best to simply use the returning players is absolutely a possibility.

 

Both Bloom and Cora talked about team needs, none of which were prohibitively expensive. Something made those needs not happen.

Yes it was a possibility, but the Red Sox needed help with pitching weeks ago when all the injuries happened. Do you think Cora has enjoyed throwing all those openers, and BP castoffs out there? Waiting for the returning players as the season ticks away, and the losses mount up is just not sound judgment, and Cora I believe is smarter than that.

[notin]

Yes it was a possibility, but the Red Sox needed help with pitching weeks ago when all the injuries happened. Do you think Cora has enjoyed throwing all those openers, and BP castoffs out there? Waiting for the returning players as the season ticks away, and the losses mount up is just not sound judgment, and Cora I believe is smarter than that.

 

 

I refuse to speak for Cora. That’s his job. Not mine.

 

If you want me to speak for him, I will hypothesize that he doesn’t want to go to any pitcher on his staff - including starters, relievers, and openers - and tell them he doesn’t think they are capable and wants the front office to bring in a replacement ASAP.

 

Cora does interact with these pitchers. What if Bernardino likes his opener role? Think Cora wants to tell him “sorry, but I’d rather have Paul Blackburn out there and have you pitch less”?

 

The Sox do have a 10 man bullpen right now (if you count Pivetta as a reliever). The opener games are not as detrimental as they would have been 3 years ago when the Sox (like most teams) only had 7-8 pitchers in the bullpen…

[Old Red]

I refuse to speak for Cora. That’s his job. Not mine.

 

If you want me to speak for him, I will hypothesize that he doesn’t want to go to any pitcher on his staff - including starters, relievers, and openers - and tell them he doesn’t think they are capable and wants the front office to bring in a replacement ASAP.

 

Cora does interact with these pitchers. What if Bernardino likes his opener role? Think Cora wants to tell him “sorry, but I’d rather have Paul Blackburn out there and have you pitch less”?

 

The Sox do have a 10 man bullpen right now (if you count Pivetta as a reliever). The opener games are not as detrimental as they would have been 3 years ago when the Sox (like most teams) only had 7-8 pitchers in the bullpen…

You are right you shouldn’t speak for Cora, and I don’t think Cora would speak anyway like this.

[Bellhorn04]

He certainly bears that responsibility, but do you think he works with Cora or operates independently that way?

 

Well, it's all guesswork. My guess is he consults with Cora, and numerous others, but the final decisions are Bloom's.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora does interact with these pitchers. What if Bernardino likes his opener role? Think Cora wants to tell him “sorry, but I’d rather have Paul Blackburn out there and have you pitch less”?

 

If we had Blackburn, I'm sure Bernardino would pitch just as much.

 

The guys who would pitch less have names like Jacques and Llovera.