Trade Deadline 2023

[moonslav59]

I didn't say they "built it up overnight." I said they went from doormats to contenders overnight and that the Sox could do the same if their farm talent matured. Not sure how that's controversial? Bloom has had time to get the meat of the farm to AA. The talent isn't that far away now. If the bats are good, Bloom should be ready to spend heavily on some arms and get this team to win.

 

Stop pretending you don't get the point being made. We had no farm maturing from mid 2017 to mid 2022. That wasn't Bloom's making.

 

Acting like Bloom could have done what the O's did is comparing apples to oranges, and you know exactly what I meant, and try to divert with goalpost moving comments.

[Maxbialystock]

I didn't say they "built it up overnight." I said they went from doormats to contenders overnight and that the Sox could do the same if their farm talent matured. Not sure how that's controversial? Bloom has had time to get the meat of the farm to AA. The talent isn't that far away now. If the bats are good, Bloom should be ready to spend heavily on some arms and get this team to win.

 

Seriously? You think Bloom can spend heavily on some arms with John Henry as the owner? No way, Jose. Price and Sale cured JH of spending heavily on arms.

[Dipre]

Seriously? You think Bloom can spend heavily on some arms with John Henry as the owner? No way, Jose. Price and Sale cured JH of spending heavily on arms.

 

As well they should, with the exception of exceptional, exceptionally healthy and exceptionally young (see what I did there?) pitchers.

[Bellhorn04]

Seriously? You think Bloom can spend heavily on some arms with John Henry as the owner? No way, Jose. Price and Sale cured JH of spending heavily on arms.

 

You can never say never with Henry. Plus I think Bloom's 5 year plan has to include acquiring a top line starter.

[Dipre]

You can never say never with Henry. Plus I think Bloom's 5 year plan has to include acquiring a top line starter.

 

His name is Yamamoto, fam.

[moonslav59]

You can never say never with Henry. Plus I think Bloom's 5 year plan has to include acquiring a top line starter.

 

He may have "acquired" one, already... from DD.

 

Brayan Freakin' Bello!

[moonslav59]

We still have a long way to go on building up pitching in our system, but it has been an issue since the Theo years.

 

It's been a while since we've had a few promising pitchers in the system, at the same time. I'm sure someone can find a moment in the last decade or so, where we had a few, but I like our current group, and I'm not sure we've had more in over a decade.

 

Kudos to DD for grabbing a few promising pitchers and not trading them before Bloom took over.

Kudos to Bloom for not trading any great ones. He traded Aldo Ramirez (Schwarber) and Groome (Rosier and Ferguson) and some are very upset about us losing Ward & Song, but here is what we have, right now:

 

MLB Experience:

24 Bello

25 Wink & Murphy

26 Walter

27 Whitlock, Crawford & Houck

28 Kelly

29 Schreiber & Mills

 

No MLB Experience

19 E R-C

20 Perales

21 Wikelman

22 Guerrero & Rogers

24 Drohan & Mata

25 F Fernandez

 

Below 30 rankings on SPs:

Monegro, Troye, Dobbins, Blalock, Bastardo, Hoppe, Paez, Dean, Denlinger, Liu, Gambrell, I Coffey and more

 

[vjcsmoke]

BTV is an interesting resource.

 

From what I'm reading the Angels future needs are going to be in the outfield.

 

How about this trade offer? It's a slight overpay according to BTV but it addresses the Angel's needs for midfielders with Verdugo for the now and Anthony for the future.

 

 

Anthony, Casas, and Verdugo for Ohtani. who says no in this deal?

 

Casas and Verdugo are already major league quality players and Anthony is a young top 10 OF prospect in the Sox farm system but at the bottom end of that 10.

Edited July 13, 2023 by vjcsmoke

[notin]

BTV is an interesting resource.

 

From what I'm reading the Angels future needs are going to be in the outfield.

 

How about this trade offer? It's a slight overpay according to BTV but it addresses the Angel's needs for midfielders with Verdugo for the now and Anthony for the future.

 

[ATTACH]1216[/ATTACH]

 

Anthony, Casas, and Verdugo for Ohtani. who says no in this deal?

 

Casas and Verdugo are already major league quality players and Anthony is a young top 10 OF prospect in the Sox farm system but at the bottom end of that 10.

 

The Angels need midfielders? Are they switching to soccer?

 

Can we convince them Kluber is a helluva goalie?

[moonslav59]

BTV is an interesting resource.

 

From what I'm reading the Angels future needs are going to be in the outfield.

 

How about this trade offer? It's a slight overpay according to BTV but it addresses the Angel's needs for midfielders with Verdugo for the now and Anthony for the future.

 

[ATTACH]1216[/ATTACH]

 

Anthony, Casas, and Verdugo for Ohtani. who says no in this deal?

 

Casas and Verdugo are already major league quality players and Anthony is a young top 10 OF prospect in the Sox farm system but at the bottom end of that 10.

 

I'd say no to Anthony for Ohtani, alone.

[Deja Doh]

BTV is an interesting resource.

 

From what I'm reading the Angels future needs are going to be in the outfield.

 

How about this trade offer? It's a slight overpay according to BTV but it addresses the Angel's needs for midfielders with Verdugo for the now and Anthony for the future.

 

[ATTACH]1216[/ATTACH]

 

Anthony, Casas, and Verdugo for Ohtani. who says no in this deal?

 

Casas and Verdugo are already major league quality players and Anthony is a young top 10 OF prospect in the Sox farm system but at the bottom end of that 10.

 

If the Angels would do that trade, then do it. The Angeles need hitters and pitching (like every team). Ohtani is the guy we need to get now. He is the real deal.

 

The Sox have missed out on Freeman, Judge, Seager, Turner, Kershaw, etc. We let Eovaldi, Martinez (both allstars) and Bogaerts walk. Yet we still have Sale who has been a bust (averaging 6.5 wins a year, pretty pathetic acquisition). Story is averaging just 1/3 of hit over each of the 253 games the team has played the last two years. Not good.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Roman Anthony, age 19, just passed Marcelo Mayer on the MLB prospect list? That should generate some serious talksox...

 

Since being promoted to high A Greenville, Anthony has 21 hits in 16 games with an OPS of 1.331.

 

For perspective, Ohtani leads the majors in OPS with 1.050. A few ex-Red Sox are 1-2 in career OPS: Babe Ruth 1.163, and Ted Williams 1.115.

 

A year ago, another teenager Miguel Bleis, was the Red Sox All-Star outfielder of the future. He's hurt this summer, but now we have Anthony. Maybe not trading young prospects as they develop is better than acquiring mediocre cast-off pitchers to bolster the rotation for another furious run at the third wild card...

[Hugh2]

Roman Anthony, age 19, just passed Marcelo Mayer on the MLB prospect list? That should generate some serious talksox...

 

Since being promoted to high A Greenville, Anthony has 21 hits in 16 games with an OPS of 1.331.

 

For perspective, Ohtani leads the majors in OPS with 1.050. A few ex-Red Sox are 1-2 in career OPS: Babe Ruth 1.163, and Ted Williams 1.115.

 

A year ago, another teenager Miguel Bleis, was the Red Sox All-Star outfielder of the future. He's hurt this summer, but now we have Anthony. Maybe not trading young prospects as they develop is better than acquiring mediocre cast-off pitchers to bolster the rotation for another furious run at the third wild card...

 

Prospectus may be slipping, I'm not sure they have the same cred they once had. They talk about Mayer possibly having to move off of shorts stop and Yorke being a plus defender at 2nd. It's literally the opposite with both those guys.

 

Anthony has all the tools and the results of a guy who could be a top 10 prospect when he's in AA still doing all this next year, it feels premature. Perhaps they will be proven right but there are dozenz of guys out there that fit the bill as Roman too.

 

Still, it's nice to see 2 prospects in the top 10. haha

[Hugh2]

If we trade Devers/Mayer/Casas/Bello/Anthony/Verdugo/Wong/Houck/Whitlock/Duran/Whitlock that should be enough to outbid everyone else.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox have missed out on Freeman, Judge, Seager, Turner, Kershaw, etc.

 

The names you listed reinforce how risky the big contracts are. Judge got $360 mill and has played 49 games. Turner got $300 mill and has an OPS of .687.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The names you listed reinforce how risky the big contracts are. Judge got $360 mill and has played 49 games. Turner got $300 mill and has an OPS of .687.

 

Mookie's too short.

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie's too short.

 

Mookie's contract is risky too. It has 9 more years after this one. But as of now, it looks pretty damn good.

 

We have our own $300 million man now in Raffy.

 

How many $300 million men can a team afford to bet on, seems a reasonable question.

[mvp 78]

Stop pretending you don't get the point being made. We had no farm maturing from mid 2017 to mid 2022. That wasn't Bloom's making.

 

Acting like Bloom could have done what the O's did is comparing apples to oranges, and you know exactly what I meant, and try to divert with goalpost moving comments.

 

Without being rude, I'm talking about the near future, not two years ago or the past. The farm is close. If things break right, this team could really turn the afterburners on in 2025.

[mvp 78]

BTV is an interesting resource.

 

From what I'm reading the Angels future needs are going to be in the outfield.

 

How about this trade offer? It's a slight overpay according to BTV but it addresses the Angel's needs for midfielders with Verdugo for the now and Anthony for the future.

 

[ATTACH]1216[/ATTACH]

 

Anthony, Casas, and Verdugo for Ohtani. who says no in this deal?

 

Casas and Verdugo are already major league quality players and Anthony is a young top 10 OF prospect in the Sox farm system but at the bottom end of that 10.

 

No. What do the 2023 Sox need Ohtani for? He's not going to get them closer to the playoffs if they give up Casas and Verdugo.

[mvp 78]

If the Angels would do that trade, then do it. The Angeles need hitters and pitching (like every team). Ohtani is the guy we need to get now. He is the real deal.

 

The Sox have missed out on Freeman, Judge, Seager, Turner, Kershaw, etc. We let Eovaldi, Martinez (both allstars) and Bogaerts walk. Yet we still have Sale who has been a bust (averaging 6.5 wins a year, pretty pathetic acquisition). Story is averaging just 1/3 of hit over each of the 253 games the team has played the last two years. Not good.

 

If the Red Sox want Ohtani, just wait until the offseason and make him an offer then.

[Hugh2]

Without being rude, I'm talking about the near future, not two years ago or the past. The farm is close. If things break right, this team could really turn the afterburners on in 2025.

 

This is why I love my idea of going out and buying an ACE in 2024 to lead this young team and hope that Mayer/Antony/Bello/Casas and others stabilize a young core and you still have a decent farm in tact. Very LAD like.

[mvp 78]

Prospectus may be slipping, I'm not sure they have the same cred they once had. They talk about Mayer possibly having to move off of shorts stop and Yorke being a plus defender at 2nd. It's literally the opposite with both those guys.

 

Anthony has all the tools and the results of a guy who could be a top 10 prospect when he's in AA still doing all this next year, it feels premature. Perhaps they will be proven right but there are dozenz of guys out there that fit the bill as Roman too.

 

Still, it's nice to see 2 prospects in the top 10. haha

 

Yorke is better than Valdez. He's good enough to field the position, but is never going to be better than average at his peak.

 

Mayer is a really good SS though.

[Bellhorn04]

Forget Ohtani. The Japanese pitcher sounds interesting, though.

[Hugh2]

People keep on talking about these returns in the context of "well you'd have to work out an extension"

 

A. that extension is real money, which Ohtani may be worth, But you may also be spending money to replace the likes of Bello/Mayer+++

 

B. I don't think he's going to sign an extension, and I think teams now this, which greatly reduces the value of Ohtani. No matter how good he is, and I realize you can argue that right now he's the greatest player ever but that makes him worth a lot not worth unlimited resources. There's a dollar value on what a rental is worth and he's still just a rental. I listened to WEEI over a week ago and the literally were advocating trading Mayer/Bello/Casas for him. That's just beyond dumb.

 

If teams know this, the price for Ohtani is going to be a lot less than we think. It's still going to be high because it's FREAKING OHTANI, but it's not going to be an arm and a leg....just an arm.

[Bellhorn04]

People keep on talking about these returns in the context of "well you'd have to work out an extension"

 

A. that extension is real money, which Ohtani may be worth, But you may also be spending money to replace the likes of Bello/Mayer+++

 

B. I don't think he's going to sign an extension, and I think teams now this, which greatly reduces the value of Ohtani. No matter how good he is, and I realize you can argue that right now he's the greatest player ever but that makes him worth a lot not worth unlimited resources. There's a dollar value on what a rental is worth and he's still just a rental. I listened to WEEI over a week ago and the literally were advocating trading Mayer/Bello/Casas for him. That's just beyond dumb.

 

If teams know this, the price for Ohtani is going to be a lot less than we think. It's still going to be high because it's FREAKING OHTANI, but it's not going to be an arm and a leg....just an arm.

 

Care to make a guess on the total dollars?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Regarding Ohtani and the impending biggest contract in the history of baseball: teams that have gotten burned in the recent past on big-money, longterm free agent pitchers (signed or extended) will have no appetite, and that includes John Henry's Red Sox.

 

There's no evidence Bloom will even spend half of the projected Ohtani price -- say $300 million -- on the next-best starting pitcher on the market. Even that will be too risky, on who: Urias, Nola, Stroman?

 

But most Sox fans will probably agree Bloom absolutely has to do better than more $10M rehabbing vets on one-year deals. How about some in-between starting pitchers, like a few Kodi Senga-TYPE signings (5 years @ $15M)? Pitchers from Japan (ones that don't also hit 30 HRs) usually agree to more reasonable wages while initially proving themselves in the majors.

 

Guys

[notin]

Forget Ohtani. The Japanese pitcher sounds interesting, though.

 

I think the Sox at least have a tie breaker for Yamamoto, as he was Yoshida’s teammate in Japan. Of course, they have to be involved in a tie for it to matter.

 

This does operate on the assumption that Yoshida and Yamamoto actually liked each other. Or at least didn’t hate each other. And that certainly could be the case…

[Hugh2]

Care to make a guess on the total dollars?

 

.....no. But I will anyways.

 

I'm going to say 10/$600. And I think he can be worth it if he stays healthy, I do think at the back end of wherever he signs he will just be playing on one side of the ball. So you might signing Ohtani to pitch for 5-6 years but to hit for 10.

[Bellhorn04]

.....no. But I will anyways.

 

I'm going to say 10/$600. And I think he can be worth it if he stays healthy, I do think at the back end of wherever he signs he will just be playing on one side of the ball. So you might signing Ohtani to pitch for 5-6 years but to hit for 10.

 

As it stands the biggest contracts are:

 

Total dollars Trout 426.5 million

AAV (excluding deals of 3 years or less) Judge 40 million

 

If Ohtani does get 10/600 million, it will be an increase of about 40% in total value and 50% in AAV.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As it stands the biggest contracts are:

 

Total dollars Trout 426.5 million

AAV (excluding deals of 3 years or less) Judge 40 million

 

If Ohtani does get 10/600 million, it will be an increase of about 40% in total value and 50% in AAV.

 

Michael Holley, Boston sports TV, says $700M. Wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy the Rays?