The Red Sox starting rotation -- long term

[notin]

Just saying, you don't have to go back 70 years. Maddux turned 33 in 1999.

 

Those next 5 years:

34 GS per year

3.24 ERA (136 ERA+)

1.167 WHIP

3.40 FIP

4.03 K:BB

 

Two examples, one three quarters of a century ago and the second only one quarter of a century ago. Not really much better…

[moonslav59]

Two examples, one three quarters of a century ago and the second only one quarter of a century ago. Not really much better…

 

Maybe 1999 was close to a quarter century, but 2005-2009, not so much. True, Maddux was not great in those years, but he was better than all our SP'ers are, right now, just 15 years ago.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe 1999 was close to a quarter century, but 2005-2009, not so much. True, Maddux was not great in those years, but he was better than all our SP'ers are, right now, just 15 years ago.

 

You might be selling Sale a little short, the way he's looked his last couple of starts.

[mvp 78]

You might be selling Sale a little short, the way he's looked his last couple of starts.

 

He's had a few extra days of rest. Let's see if he can keep the streak going.

[moonslav59]

You might be selling Sale a little short, the way he's looked his last couple of starts.

 

True, but I was talking the last 4-5 years of Maddux vs what each Sox pitcher has given us, this year- in totality.

[mvp 78]

True, but I was talking the last 4-5 years of Maddux vs what each Sox pitcher has given us, this year- in totality.

 

Why compare a HOF pitcher to what the Sox currently have. How is that a fair comparison?

[Bellhorn04]

True, but I was talking the last 4-5 years of Maddux vs what each Sox pitcher has given us, this year- in totality.

 

Sale has an fWAR of 0.9 in 8 starts, so he's on pace for a final fWAR of a little over 3. That's in the ballpark of Maddux from say 2002 on.

[moonslav59]

Sale has an fWAR of 0.9 in 8 starts, so he's on pace for a final fWAR of a little over 3. That's in the ballpark of Maddux from say 2002 on.

 

Ok, "as good or better" than all our starters.

[moonslav59]

Why compare a HOF pitcher to what the Sox currently have. How is that a fair comparison?

 

I was pointing out how well a 6-0 170 pound pitcher aged.

 

I used a comp, most are very familiar with.

 

If an 80 year old maddux is better was better than all our starters, it does tell a story.

[Bellhorn04]

I also have doubts that Maddux never exceeded 170 pounds. He seemed to get a little chunkier in later years.

[moonslav59]

I also have doubts that Maddux never exceeded 170 pounds. He seemed to get a little chunkier in later years.

 

Agreed, but he was small and aged well.

[Bellhorn04]

Agreed, but he was small and aged well.

 

Another freak of nature. And he did what he did striking out only about 6 per 9 innings.

[notin]

Maybe 1999 was close to a quarter century, but 2005-2009, not so much. True, Maddux was not great in those years, but he was better than all our SP'ers are, right now, just 15 years ago.

 

Arguing over that aspect is a tad questionable given it’s still just two pitchers on the past 75 years…

[moonslav59]

Arguing over that aspect is a tad questionable given it’s still just two pitchers on the past 75 years…

 

How is providing another example "arguing?" You mentioned needing to go back 75 years to find one, and I found one that pitched less than 15 years ago.

 

I didn't even look to see if there were more. I agree that the numbers are very small. I was just adding some information.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Does Pivetta get non-tendered next year? It is certainly hard to see where he would have a spot in the rotation with Sale, Bello, Whitlock, Houck taking up 4 rotation spots and the Red Sox will likely pursue a big time starter in free agency.

[Nick]

Does Pivetta get non-tendered next year? It is certainly hard to see where he would have a spot in the rotation with Sale, Bello, Whitlock, Houck taking up 4 rotation spots and the Red Sox will likely pursue a big time starter in free agency.

 

He's making $5.35M this year.

 

If we happen to DFA Kluber, I'm not sure if we can afford to move away from Pivetta just yet.

 

I was hoping we'd get a solid reliever for Pivetta in July.

[notin]

He's making $5.35M this year.

 

If we happen to DFA Kluber, I'm not sure if we can afford to move away from Pivetta just yet.

 

I was hoping we'd get a solid reliever for Pivetta in July.

 

Well, we know Pivetta is worth two short term journeymen relievers…

[moonslav59]

Does Pivetta get non-tendered next year? It is certainly hard to see where he would have a spot in the rotation with Sale, Bello, Whitlock, Houck taking up 4 rotation spots and the Red Sox will likely pursue a big time starter in free agency.

 

Depends how he does in the pen. His arb raise should not be much, after a year like this, but that is a lot of money for a meh pen arm.

[notin]

Depends how he does in the pen. His arb raise should not be much, after a year like this, but that is a lot of money for a meh pen arm.

 

Even if Pivetta got no raise, his $5.35mill salary would be third highest in the bullpen behind only Jansen and Martin. Unless Pivetta can establish himself as being worth it as a reliever or get back in the rotation, he is 100% on track to be non-tendered. No way the Sox have their third highest paid reliever doing mop up work…

[moonslav59]

Even if Pivetta got no raise, his $5.35mill salary would be third highest in the bullpen behind only Jansen and Martin. Unless Pivetta can establish himself as being worth it as a reliever or get back in the rotation, he is 100% on track to be non-tendered. No way the Sox have their third highest paid reliever doing mop up work…

 

Agreed. It would be "a lot of money for a meh pen arm," and would not be given out.

 

He needs to prove he's worth $5.5M in the pen (unlikely) or work his way back into a 4.50-4.75 SP'er, this year (perhaps more likely but not anything I'd bet on.)

 

I think we save some money by non-tendering Pivetta and not giving Kluber his option. (BTW, no buyout on Kluber's option was telling.)

 

We can see a massive addition by subtraction in 2024 with no Kluber, Pivetta, Brasier, Bleier and Ort.

 

Who we add will be the points of debate.

[Randy Red Sox]

it will be whoever Bloom can find tht will sign a 1 yr deal

[moonslav59]

it will be whoever Bloom can find tht will sign a 1 yr deal

 

We've seen several long term deals, counting last March's Story signing- Yoshida & Devers.

 

We've seen more 2 year deals or 1 with option years than one year deals, this season.

 

I think the mold might be broken, next winter.

[mvp 78]

We've seen several long term deals, counting last March's Story signing- Yoshida & Devers.

 

We've seen more 2 year deals or 1 with option years than one year deals, this season.

 

I think the mold might be broken, next winter.

 

You said that last year too.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We've seen several long term deals, counting last March's Story signing- Yoshida & Devers.

 

We've seen more 2 year deals or 1 with option years than one year deals, this season.

 

I think the mold might be broken, next winter.

 

You know there is separate mold when it comes to starting pitching and Bloom. And unfortunately, it usually the kind growing on musty old arms before he'll offer one-year contracts... with options.

 

Here, I googled it: "When the humidity is above 60 percent relative humidity, molds will germinate causing what is referred to as a mold bloom. These molds can bloom in many colors and are often confused with dust, dirt, foxing, or cobwebs. Both active and inactive mold can have a distinctive smell, which most people describe as musty."

[Bellhorn04]

We've seen several long term deals, counting last March's Story signing- Yoshida & Devers.

 

We've seen more 2 year deals or 1 with option years than one year deals, this season.

 

I think the mold might be broken, next winter.

 

It's all part of his 10 year plan.

[notin]

You said that last year too.

 

Eventually he’ll be right

[Bellhorn04]

Eventually he’ll be right

 

Or Bloom will be gone. Either or.

[Dipre]

It's all part of his 10 year plan.

 

You say that sarcastically but......

[moonslav59]

You said that last year too.

 

They did break the mold everywhere but SPer, but you are right. I expected more resources directed at the rotation.

[moonslav59]

You know there is separate mold when it comes to starting pitching and Bloom. And unfortunately, it usually the kind growing on musty old arms before he'll offer one-year contracts... with options.

 

Here, I googled it: "When the humidity is above 60 percent relative humidity, molds will germinate causing what is referred to as a mold bloom. These molds can bloom in many colors and are often confused with dust, dirt, foxing, or cobwebs. Both active and inactive mold can have a distinctive smell, which most people describe as musty."

 

No, I don’t “know” about a separate mold. Bloom was only given a fat wallet starting about 15 months ago, so it hard to say anything about a trend or M.O.

I’m not saying I am sure he will spend big on a SP next winter, but I don’t think 15 months locks in anything. If you look at 2020, 2021 and even 2022 up to the Story signing, Bloom spent a big chunk of his meagre budget on SPers. We were bitching about him never spending on the pen. We saw that changed, so why not think a change in spending at the top of the rotation might occur, soon?