Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[Bellhorn04]

So you think the Sox should have topped the 4 year $26mill contract for a SP who hasn’t pitched 130 IP in a season since 2017? Do we think he will get healthier as he ages?

 

What if Wacha loses a mph or 2 off his fastball next year? Will you want him around for 2 more seasons?

 

He looks like a better investment than Kluber.

 

I thought you had previously mentioned Wacha as a missed opportunity.

[Old Red]

Things might be getting better, because Houck is looking for answers on why he can’t get by 5 innings. Of course he’s been looking since pitching for the Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

Things might be getting better, because Houck is looking for answers on why he can’t get by 5 innings. Of course he’s been looking since pitching for the Sox.

 

The answer is there is no answer. He's great for 3 innings, thus he needs to be in the pen.

[Old Red]

The answer is there is no answer. He's great for 3 innings, thus he needs to be in the pen.

 

Agree 100%, and I have always said Whitlock too.

[Nick]

Agree 100%, and I have always said Whitlock too.

 

As much as I like Whitlock, his starting stats have been underwhelming.

 

Just don't send down Bello.

[notin]

Once again, it's just inexplicable and extremely frustrating that they didn't do more to address the rotation. And if we end the year out of the playoffs and giving up 5 runs a game, Bloom absolutely deserves to lose his job. Inexcusable, especially for a guy who was supposed to be bringing the Rays pitching savvy with him.

 

It’s not the Kluber signing that bothers me. Teams make quick term depth signings all the time and many don’t work out. It’s the repeated insistence that Houck belongs in the rotation when he keeps repeatedly proving he doesn’t…

[Old Red]

As much as I like Whitlock, his starting stats have been underwhelming.

 

Just don't send down Bello.

 

I can’t see Bello getting sent down now.

[notin]

Agree 100%, and I have always said Whitlock too.

 

Whitlock has at least shown something as a starter and even reels off the occasional great start. He might not be an ace in the making, but the floor shouldn’t be that high anyway. The only real issue for him as a starter is the repeated injuries and health issues…

[Old Red]

Whitlock has at least shown something as a starter and even reels off the occasional great start. He might not be an ace in the making, but the floor shouldn’t be that high anyway. The only real issue for him as a starter is the repeated injuries and health issues…

 

I agree, but the only time Whitlock has been pretty much healthy is when he’s been strictly pen.

[moonslav59]

The answer is there is no answer. He's great for 3 innings, thus he needs to be in the pen.

 

It seems so obvious- like DFA'ing Brasier (and next Bleier.)

[moonslav59]

I agree, but the only time Whitlock has been pretty much healthy is when he’s been strictly pen.

 

Is that the "whole truth?"

[Bellhorn04]

It’s not the Kluber signing that bothers me. Teams make quick term depth signings all the time and many don’t work out.

 

Kluber was kind of supposed to be a #2 starter though.

[moonslav59]

Kluber was kind of supposed to be a #2 starter though.

 

I'm not sure they expected Kluber to be our #2, athough naming him the opening day starter shows otherwise.

 

Whitlock was not ready on opening day, and I think most of us felt he projected to being better than Kluber by season's end.

[moonslav59]

The answer is there is no answer. He's great for 3 innings, thus he needs to be in the pen.

 

Why does it take so long for the Sox to see the obvious?

 

I realize some choices have to be made out of necessity, but now we seem to have a glut of SP'er- most mediocre, at best, so what's the issue?

 

Starting Whitlock might end up leading to the same conclusion as Houck, but maybe he deserves a start or two more.

 

Sale, Bello and Paxton all deserve another start or more.

 

It comes down to Whitlock, Pivetta, Crawford, Houck and maybe at some point, later on, Winck or Drohan. To me, Houck is last on this list, not because he's the worst pitcher, but because he'd be damn good in the pen, and we can't keep hoping he can go more than 3 IP.

 

I'm not sure who is second to last, but it might end up being Whitlock for the same reason or out of concerns over his health and workload.

 

That leaves Pivetta and Crawford as the #4 and #5, once the Whitlock situation becomes clearer, IMO.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Kluber was kind of supposed to be a #2 starter though.

 

Tampa knew better. He gave up the game-losing home run that knocked the Rays out of the playoffs, and they moved on.

 

But let's not blame Bloom for signing Corey Consolation Prize to fill in, just so he could field a team in '23.

 

The true turning point in the offseason -- for both clubs -- is when effing Eflin (5-1, 3.38) hosed the Sox.

 

Of course, those kind of match-the-contract schemes might be what forces a CBO to overpay to land prize lunkers (or clunkers).

[moonslav59]

Tampa knew better. He gave up the game-losing home run that knocked the Rays out of the playoffs, and they moved on.

 

But let's not blame Bloom for signing Corey Consolation Prize to fill in, just so he could field a team in '23.

 

The true turning point in the offseason -- for both clubs -- is when effing Eflin (5-1, 3.38) hosed the Sox.

 

Of course, those kind of match-the-contract schemes might be what forces a CBO to overpay to land prize lunkers (or clunkers).

 

It does seem to hurt more when you get outbid by the Rays, and then the guy goes on to be exactly what we needed.

 

On the flip side, I'm glad HOU outbid us for Abreu.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It does seem to hurt more when you get outbid by the Rays, and then the guy goes on to be exactly what we needed.

 

On the flip side, I'm glad HOU outbid us for Abreu.

 

Don't look at me -- I was in on Rodon. He had two really good, healthy years, and looked like his body finally resembled a full-time pitcher...

 

But the question about Eovaldi's longevity should mean nothing for the year-to-year Blooming Red Sox. If Nate is great all year, then shouldn't a team that's all-in absolutely awesome contending for the World Series this year have signed him for this year?

[moonslav59]

Don't look at me -- I was in on Rodon. He had two really good, healthy years, and looked like his body finally resembled a full-time pitcher...

 

But the question about Eovaldi's longevity should mean nothing for the year-to-year Blooming Red Sox. If Nate is great all year, then shouldn't a team that's all-in absolutely awesome contending for the World Series this year have signed him for this year?

 

Let's wait on anointing Nate the "one that got away."

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Let's wait on anointing Nate the "one that got away."

 

I never said he was Cy Young or Jack Lalanne, but no one can deny that Eovaldi is a good pitcher who succeeded in Boston and wanted to stay in Boston... or that he's worth his current market value.

[moonslav59]

I never said he was Cy Young or Jack Lalanne, but no one can deny that Eovaldi is a good pitcher who succeeded in Boston and wanted to stay in Boston... or that he's worth his current market value.

 

True, for now.

 

After that half season in 2018, he was up and down for us. He was an essential component of that 2021 team, for sure.

 

Last 4 years:

4.15 ERA

1.27 WHIP

73 GS out of a possible 110

 

That's not bad, but not great, either.

[Maxbialystock]

Sox are 22-20, which is better than I expected, 27th in team ERA, which has to be a disappointment; and 4th in runs scored, which is completely unexpected.

 

The 8 game winning streak ended 9 days ago. Since then, the rotation looks better, but the bullpen is a disaster, and the hitting--the "no name" lineup that has been so great--is looking less great.

 

To paraphrase Bette Davis from All About Eve, "fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy season."

[notin]

It does seem to hurt more when you get outbid by the Rays, and then the guy goes on to be exactly what we needed.

 

On the flip side, I'm glad HOU outbid us for Abreu.

 

Well, the Sox gout “outbid” by geography. Orlando-area native Eflin had his agent take the Sox offer to Tampa, who matched it. Eflin had a clear desire to play near his home. I don’t know if the Sox were even given a chance to counter…

[moonslav59]

Sox are 22-20, which is better than I expected, 27th in team ERA, which has to be a disappointment; and 4th in runs scored, which is completely unexpected.

 

The 8 game winning streak ended 9 days ago. Since then, the rotation looks better, but the bullpen is a disaster, and the hitting--the "no name" lineup that has been so great--is looking less great.

 

To paraphrase Bette Davis from All About Eve, "fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy season."

 

Our pitching has been bad, but I think we are slightly better than 27th.

 

25th in ERA- at 112 (just passed by STL)

23rd in WHIP

18th in xFIP

15th K-BB%

14th in SIERA

 

[moonslav59]

Well, the Sox gout “outbid” by geography. Orlando-area native Eflin had his agent take the Sox offer to Tampa, who matched it. Eflin had a clear desire to play near his home. I don’t know if the Sox were even given a chance to counter…

 

Maybe not, but he looks to have been worth a hefty counter-offer- not that I thought so at the time.

[Maxbialystock]

Well, the Sox gout “outbid” by geography. Orlando-area native Eflin had his agent take the Sox offer to Tampa, who matched it. Eflin had a clear desire to play near his home. I don’t know if the Sox were even given a chance to counter…

 

Great point!! I had no idea.

[mvp 78]

Well, the Sox gout “outbid” by geography. Orlando-area native Eflin had his agent take the Sox offer to Tampa, who matched it. Eflin had a clear desire to play near his home. I don’t know if the Sox were even given a chance to counter…

 

The Sox lost out to a Chicken Tenders Pub Sub. Sad!

[Old Red]

Our pitching has been bad, but I think we are slightly better than 27th.

 

25th in ERA- at 112 (just passed by STL)

23rd in WHIP

18th in xFIP

15th K-BB%

14th in SIERA

 

The eye test tells you different, or at least it should.

[moonslav59]

The eye test tells you different, or at least it should.

 

Like you know just how good every other teams' pitching is.

 

Come on, be wholly truthful.

 

These are rankings.

 

Our pitching sucks. I have never said otherwise. My eye test agrees.

 

My point was that we might not be 29th as the ERA stat shows. Hell, maybe we're 30th.

 

I'm just trying to show the whole truth and let people decide, but only facts that back up your eyes count as being truthful, it appears.

[Bellhorn04]

Let's wait on anointing Nate the "one that got away."

 

His health is the X factor of course. But a $34 million risk is not that big for a team with the Red Sox wealth. We've thrown away multiples of that before and got nothing for it.

 

Admittedly I'm an Eovaldi fanboy.

[moonslav59]

His health is the X factor of course. But a $34 million risk is not that big for a team with the Red Sox wealth. We've thrown away multiples of that before and got nothing for it.

 

Admittedly I'm an Eovaldi fanboy.

 

Health is just half of the equation, and that is why I am more skeptical than you and others on Nate.

 

I'm not trying to diss him. He was a big hero in 2018 and was our true ace in 2021. I'll never forget that or stop appreciating what he did for us.

 

To me, it was not just the missed starts (about 30%.) Maybe, needing him to be our ace made me feel worse about what he gave us in 2019, 2020 and 2022 than I should have. He was not signed to ace money.

 

I've never been big on FIP, and he was very good in that area, for us (3.73 vs a 4.05 ERA.) I probably let 2019 sour me, too much. He was not alone in his massive downturn. He pitched pretty well in 2020 and 2022, when healthy, but in the last 4 years he...

 

Was hurt in 3 of them.

Pitched poorly in one (2019), Okay to good in 2022, and well in 2020 (9 GS) and 2021.

 

He's 33, now. I'd certainly prefer him to Kluber, even with the higher cost, but I'd have preferred someone else.

 

I liked Wacha. It looks like Eflin would have been better. Not sure about Senga. I was against overpaying for Rodon.