Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[moonslav59]

Finally, the language I can understand.

 

Then, how do we understand this?

 

8-7 w Arroyo

 

2-3 w others

[Maxbialystock]

It seems like Kluber starts out games doing okay, but then loses it after a coupe innings.

 

(Note: some of these games, he allowed too many base-runners early, but they just didn't score.)

 

Game 1: 3 IP 1 ER, then in the 4th- BB & HR. He loads the bases and is pulled. Kelly allows 2 of his runners to score.

 

Game 2: 5 IP 1 ER (4H & 2BB w 7Ks vs PIT)

 

Game 3: 4.1 IP w 0 ER, then he allows a run and leaves with 2 out and 2 on. Bleier allows both to score and then some. (vs Rays)

 

Game 4: He lets up 3 in the first (BB, 2B, HR) then 4 in the 3rd (BB, HBP, 1B, HR)

 

In other words, he's a loser and needs to go to the bullpen or into rehab or whatever.

 

I do understand the point that the Sox are paying him $10M. Thus someone else's comment he should get 10 starts before any change is made. After all, he's an investment.

 

However, my furor at keeping him in the rotation is that starters and only starters can make a huge difference in winning and losing. It used to be--and often still is--that managers would leave starters in until they had given up 7 runs. Why? Because you want to get some innings out of your starter, even one who gets off to a bad start. And, of course, right now the Sox are well into playing 19 games without a break.

 

My furor is strengthened by the realization that we know five other starters are better and that Bello has more potential right now than a veteran clearly in decline.

[Maxbialystock]

Then, how do we understand this?

 

8-7 w Arroyo

 

2-3 w others

 

Not much difference in my view. The numbers I cited on games in which Wong has played vs games in which McGuire has played are more persuasive.

 

I was high on Arroyo coming into this season. No longer, but I also haven't given up hope.

[notin]

Then, how do we understand this?

 

8-7 w Arroyo

 

2-3 w others

 

 

The Sox are 5-3 in games in which Yu Chang starts at SS. 5-7 when anyone else does…

[Nick]

Then, how do we understand this?

 

8-7 w Arroyo

 

2-3 w others

 

Catching position has more impact defensively for pitcher than a second baseman?

 

Moon, I just made a flippant comment on the post you responded to....let's not have that Red vs Moon epic dialogue.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

Catching position has more impact defensively for pitcher than a second baseman?

 

It just might.

[Hugh2]

The Sox are 5-3 in games in which Yu Chang starts at SS. 5-7 when anyone else does…

 

If we started CHang on day 1 we'd win 101 games this year.

 

This is preposterous.

[Bellhorn04]

Indeed. People can also talk about why certain areas are talked about more than others, and that we feel the other areas are more pressing and deserving of discussion.

 

Jeez, what is this, school?

[Bellhorn04]

If we started CHang on day 1 we'd win 101 games this year.

 

This is preposterous.

 

Very.

[moonslav59]

Catching position has more impact defensively for pitcher than a second baseman?

 

Moon, I just made a flippant comment on the post you responded to....let's not have that Red vs Moon epic dialogue.

 

I do agree that a catcher has more to do with wins than 2B.

 

I also think the fact that only Wong has caught Houck and Whitlock, any numbers will be skewed.

 

Let's see how all these numbers pan out over a full season.

[moonslav59]

Jeez, what is this, school?

 

LOL.

 

Nobody needs my permission to think or talk about anything they want and for as long as they want. They can also feel free to tell me they think I'm focusing on one area too much, too, and I think they have a few times.

 

[Hugh2]

Maybe we should start a catcher thread? How man pages have we not been talking about the starting rotation now?

[moonslav59]

Maybe we should start a catcher thread? How man pages have we not been talking about the starting rotation now?

 

The rotation has gotten a lot of attention, too, as has SS, 2B and CF.

 

Maybe the position most underrepresented, in terms of it being a very high need area is maybe 1B. We have sucked at 1B for way too long.

[mvp 78]

LOL.

 

Nobody needs my permission to think or talk about anything they want and for as long as they want. They can also feel free to tell me they think I'm focusing on one area too much, too, and I think they have a few times.

 

 

Hallmonitorslav59

[Nick]

Here's my latest Red Sox Core Group Watch..building for the future. (Team Control assuming options picked up)

 

1B Casas (6 years) He has already broken the record for single season check swings, previously held by Xander

2B Story (5 years)

SS Mayer (6+ years, when promoted)

3B Devers (11 years)

LF Yoshida (5 years)

 

New to the group

RF Verdugo, yep only 2 years of team control but EXTENSION maybe on the way? Hey we jumped the gun on Barnes.

CF Duran, (6 years) yep on the heels of good hitting week. He looks like a rock star

C WONG (6 years)....He looks to be the guy that will lead us to more wins than any other catcher.

 

PS for entertainment purpose only.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Nick

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Sox are 5-3 in games in which Yu Chang starts at SS. 5-7 when anyone else does…

 

I dunno, could it be possible these records reflect that Chang is the only actual shortstop who's played there so far?

[Hugh2]

I dunno, could it be possible these records reflect that Chang is the only actual shortstop who's played there so far?

 

Or it could be that we are using such small sample sizes (for everything) here. If that's all Chang then Chang wins you 34 more games. Chang is not the difference between 67 and 101 wins

[mvp 78]

Or it could be that we are using such small sample sizes (for everything) here. If that's all Chang then Chang wins you 34 more games. Chang is not the difference between 67 and 101 wins

 

Intangibles? No!

 

Inchangibles? YES!

[moonslav59]

Hallmonitorslav59

 

No name calling.

 

[moonslav59]

McGuire starting, tonight.

 

(I don't see a game thread.)

[Maxbialystock]

McGuire starting, tonight.

 

(I don't see a game thread.)

 

Jad has already told us he is not from this planet.

[Bellhorn04]

McGuire starting, tonight.

 

(I don't see a game thread.)

 

We're now 3-6 in McGuire starts.

 

But, he got pinch-hit for in the 6th inning, and the CERA gap increased.

 

Yes, I have become a bit obsessed with this, but I'm convinced that Cora and the team are paying a lot of attention to it too.

[Hugh2]

We're now 3-6 in McGuire starts.

 

But, he got pinch-hit for in the 6th inning, and the CERA gap increased.

 

Yes, I have become a bit obsessed with this, but I'm convinced that Cora and the team are paying a lot of attention to it too.

 

It's not a zero-sum game.

[Bellhorn04]

It's not a zero-sum game.

 

Not sure how that applies to baseball. A zero-sum game is like when you play poker for money with your friends.

[Hugh2]

Not sure how that applies to baseball. A zero-sum game is like when you play poker for money with your friends.

 

I use the term zero-sum game as it is often applied in game-theory in which the benefit of one player results in the net loss of benefit to another player.

 

Just because Wong may be the starting catcher, doesn't mean McGuire is a bad catcher. Someone has to take the lions share behind the dish.

[Bellhorn04]

Wong will almost certainly catch tonight with Whitlock.

 

McGuire will likely catch Bello for the second time tomorrow.

[Maxbialystock]

We're now 3-6 in McGuire starts.

 

But, he got pinch-hit for in the 6th inning, and the CERA gap increased.

 

Yes, I have become a bit obsessed with this, but I'm convinced that Cora and the team are paying a lot of attention to it too.

 

I'm kind of obsessed too, and I like to back that up with specific mistakes McGuire makes in games. Like the bad throw to 2b last night when a good one would have nailed the runner, who promptly came home on a single. And the bad positioning on the excellent throw home by Verdugo. Good positioning would have nailed the runner because the throw beat the runner and was just up the 3d base line where it should have been.

[Maxbialystock]

I use the term zero-sum game as it is often applied in game-theory in which the benefit of one player results in the net loss of benefit to another player.

 

Just because Wong may be the starting catcher, doesn't mean McGuire is a bad catcher. Someone has to take the lions share behind the dish.

 

Ahem. Cough, cough. I think your use of zero sum is really dim sum.

 

Wong is clearly the better catcher and should start most of the games. McGuire has repeatedly demonstrated his unfitness for duties behind the plate. McGuire should be the backup and available for pinch-hitting for Wong in the later innings.

 

Right now McGuire seems to be the better hitter and in fact has the 3d highest OPS, .900, on the team. Rather than have him start most of the games because of his bat, it would make sense to let him DH (with Turner replacing Casas at 1b) or even play 1b.

[Bellhorn04]

Ahem. Cough, cough. I think your use of zero sum is really dim sum.

 

Wong is clearly the better catcher and should start most of the games. McGuire has repeatedly demonstrated his unfitness for duties behind the plate. McGuire should be the backup and available for pinch-hitting for Wong in the later innings.

 

Right now McGuire seems to be the better hitter and in fact has the 3d highest OPS, .900, on the team. Rather than have him start most of the games because of his bat, it would make sense to let him DH (with Turner replacing Casas at 1b) or even play 1b.

 

Except that Wong can't possibly catch every game.

 

McGuire is a work in progress as a catcher, I think.

[Hugh2]

Except that Wong can't possibly catch every game.

 

McGuire is a work in progress as a catcher, I think.

 

Precisely, a starting catcher isn’t playing every game like a short stop or centerfielder.

 

Wong actually didn’t convert and fully commit to catching until he joined the Sox Organization. So I think it’s reasonable to assume he can continue to get even better behind the plate. He might be an elite defender