Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[Bellhorn04]

Can't hurt to try Wong with Sale. Let's see what Cora does. Surely at some point he switches from the straight platoon.

 

Looks like Wong is catching tonight, so here goes.

[moonslav59]

Looks like Wong is catching tonight, so here goes.

 

If Sale does well, we'll never hear the end of it...

 

[Bellhorn04]

If Sale does well, we'll never hear the end of it...

 

 

Yeah, for 4-5 days at least.

 

After all, being proved right means more than the Sox winning or losing.

[Hugh2]

If Sale does well, we'll never hear the end of it...

 

 

It’s kind of strange, in the past you’ve been the biggest proponent of CERA and I’ve never seen someone put so much stock into it now.

 

I’ve never been into CERA, but If there’s anything there I think you’d need a very very large sample size for the state to stabilize. Like, 1,500 innings or something. Game to game means nothing. Sale is a good pitcher, he should pitcher better, no excuses.

[Bellhorn04]

It’s kind of strange, in the past you’ve been the biggest proponent of CERA and I’ve never seen someone put so much stock into it now.

 

I’ve never been into CERA, but If there’s anything there I think you’d need a very very large sample size for the state to stabilize. Like, 1,500 innings or something. Game to game means nothing. Sale is a good pitcher, he should pitcher better, no excuses.

 

I just don't have time to wait 1,500 innings any more. I'm old, man.

[vegasbob]

I just don't have time to wait 1,500 innings any more. I'm old, man.

 

Less than 2 seasons even with platooning to take advantage of the L/R thing. I suspect you'll be here for the outcome on the CERA in late 2024

[Hugh2]

Less than 2 seasons even with platooning to take advantage of the L/R thing. I suspect you'll be here for the outcome on the CERA in late 2024

 

Or we can just not use CERA which is a widely horrible stat. Both Reese and Wong are above average defenders in my opinion. Defense metrics seem to agree. Reese has a better bat but Won’t had an elite arm, which makes it very interesting given the new base rules

[vegasbob]

I don't foresee Bello going back to Worcester. All I said was that maybe he, Kluber, and Sale--note the company I've put him with--should start less often.

 

Last week Tampa started a 22 year old rookie, Taj Bradley. His first MLB start, and he looked far more competent and confident that Bello did yesterday--and Bello had 11 MLB starts last year.

 

Before Bello's start yesterday, the message traffic from the Sox was that he has great stuff this year, so good that they didn't even have him start at the AA or AAA level before starting in Boston.

 

Max, these are the same coaches and evaluators that wouldn't recognize a pitcher if you gave them an autographed picture of Cy Young. I do want Bello to succeed and this year would not be too soon. The wet game with the Angels was not a true indication of anything except that Renfroe can still lose balls over the Monster

[moonslav59]

Yeah, for 4-5 days at least.

 

After all, being proved right means more than the Sox winning or losing.

 

So, if he pitches 4 IP and lets up 4 ERs, which is a better ERA/CERA than he has now, then what?

[moonslav59]

Max, these are the same coaches and evaluators that wouldn't recognize a pitcher if you gave them an autographed picture of Cy Young.

 

So, they got lucky with Whitlock?

 

Closed their eyes and drew his name from a hat.

[jad]

Seems like a lot of fans, a lot of RS players, and certainly the radio announcers are pretty demonstrative in their support of Vaz. But what do Joe Castiglione or R. Devers know about baseball or team chemistry. (I assume the ovation Vaz got was the same that, say, JH or CB get when they show up for games, even of different sports.)

[a700hitter]

Seems like a lot of fans, a lot of RS players, and certainly the radio announcers are pretty demonstrative in their support of Vaz. But what do Joe Castiglione or R. Devers know about baseball or team chemistry. (I assume the ovation Vaz got was the same that, say, JH or CB get when they show up for games, even of different sports.)

That is irrelevant. Some people here hated him.

[Maxbialystock]

Max, these are the same coaches and evaluators that wouldn't recognize a pitcher if you gave them an autographed picture of Cy Young. I do want Bello to succeed and this year would not be too soon. The wet game with the Angels was not a true indication of anything except that Renfroe can still lose balls over the Monster

 

Sarcastic, but entirely too much truth in that.

 

I'm with you on Bello because I thought he showed real potential last year. I just don't want him to keep starting if he can't get his stuff together.

[Maxbialystock]

That is irrelevant. Some people here hated him.

 

I am not a Vaz fan. In the early days I loved that arm of his and his quick release. Kind of like Wong has been this year. But even then I thought Sandy Leon was better with the pitchers. Later I was furious at the reckless way he ran the bases and into outs. I do not mind admitting he played a lot in 2021 because he was really hitting the ball well.

 

Nevertheless, I did love tonight's game. Wong was terrific behind the plate, and even got a double. Then McGuire pinch hit and got a hit and stayed in to catch the 9th and 10th innings, during which Schreiber, who has been very good this season, gave up that one earned run in the 10th.

 

Meanwhile, Christian Vazquez, who is hitting .325 for the Twins, caught a pretty good game until the the disastrous 10th in which he failed to block a 3d strike wild pitch because he raised his glove to catch the hop instead of blocking it--and the ball went right under his glove. He also got called for catcher interference. So all by himself Vazquez put two Sox players on base. Sweet.

 

Plus, after he was called for interference, he kept pointing to the back of his glove as if to say, "hey, not my fault. The batter hit my glove." The guy is just ignorant as heck.

 

Right now I'm pretty happy with the two young catchers we have. Wong is pretty good defensively and McGuire right now is hitting everything, BA of .393.

 

If I were to applaud Vazquez at Fenway Park, it would be to thank him for not playing for Boston anymore.

[moonslav59]

Sarcastic, but entirely too much truth in that.

 

I'm with you on Bello because I thought he showed real potential last year. I just don't want him to keep starting if he can't get his stuff together.

 

Nobody wants any pitcher starting who can't get his stuff together. Maybe Bello won't, this year or ever, but the potential we saw, last year, did not go away.

 

Remember, the very season you saw potential in, he had a 10.50 ERA after his first 3 starts and 12 IP.

 

This year, he has one start. Give the kid some time.

 

He's got good stuff and some control issues. He had a 3.18 ERA in his last 10 games of 2022.

[Maxbialystock]

Back to the subject of this thread--a shout out to moonslav who more than anyone else has showed faith in the Sox pitching. Tonight was the best I've seen Sale pitch since 2019. His upper 90's fast ball is gone, but his command was terrific, as was the mix of his pitches. And we have already seen Houck, Pivetta, Whitlock, and Crawford pitch some pretty good games. Kluber could/should come around. And Bello wasn't half bad last year. Plus a pretty good bullpen with a terrific closer--Schreiber's stint tonight notwithstanding.

[Bellhorn04]

So, if he pitches 4 IP and lets up 4 ERs, which is a better ERA/CERA than he has now, then what?

 

You saw the results, man.

 

I'll call it right now: Wong is our #1 catcher. If they both stay healthy, he's the one who will get 60-70% of the starts. He just might be a pretty good one.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You saw the results, man.

 

I'll call it right now: Wong is our #1 catcher. If they both stay healthy, he's the one who will get 60-70% of the starts. He just might be a pretty good one.

 

With respect to this position, we finally have a poster admit he's Wong.

[Hugh2]

I know this is going to make me sound like an arrogant D-bag but I really wish I could remember all the people (or maybe it was a person) I had an argument about Sales stuff. Last year, my argument was if Sale comes back healthy he can still be dominant because he still has elite stuff. A concept that Poster xyz just couldn't handle.

 

Now, to be fair, his stuff looked like it took a little step back in ST and even his first start. But his stuff has looked a LOT better his past two starts, with the results showing in this one. Which is very encouraging to me. Sale still has it, and maybe the rust isn't completely shaken off right now, maybe he's still got an egg or two in him before he constantly finds that consistency but what he showed last night was real elite stuff.

 

It will be really exciting if he can stay healthy. That is the key with him.

[moonslav59]

You saw the results, man.

 

I'll call it right now: Wong is our #1 catcher. If they both stay healthy, he's the one who will get 60-70% of the starts. He just might be a pretty good one.

 

Just keep PH'ing McGuire!

 

Maybe calling up Alfaro, so we can PH, more often, makes some sense. He could DH with Turner at 1B, when matchups don't favor Casas.

[moonslav59]

That is irrelevant. Some people here hated him.

 

Untrue.

[Hugh2]

Untrue.

 

If you didn't completely bash Bloom and the trade you hated him. People aren't allowed to do analysis around here....they are only allowed to hate.

[notin]

I know this is going to make me sound like an arrogant D-bag but I really wish I could remember all the people (or maybe it was a person) I had an argument about Sales stuff. Last year, my argument was if Sale comes back healthy he can still be dominant because he still has elite stuff. A concept that Poster xyz just couldn't handle.

 

Now, to be fair, his stuff looked like it took a little step back in ST and even his first start. But his stuff has looked a LOT better his past two starts, with the results showing in this one. Which is very encouraging to me. Sale still has it, and maybe the rust isn't completely shaken off right now, maybe he's still got an egg or two in him before he constantly finds that consistency but what he showed last night was real elite stuff.

 

It will be really exciting if he can stay healthy. That is the key with him.

 

It wasn’t me, but probably just a matter of opportunity.

 

I’m glad Sale had a great outing. Not actually surprised because 1) Fangraphs had his average fastball velocity at a respectable 93mph before that outing and 2) the Twins’ offense is dreadful. Still he managed to exceed my meager expectations and (more important) not get hurt.

 

Now I can go back to my off-season prediction that the Sox season depends heavily on Sale…

[moonslav59]

If you didn't completely bash Bloom and the trade you hated him. People aren't allowed to do analysis around here....they are only allowed to hate.

 

I only had issues with how Vax handled the staff and said over and over I would was never in favor of benching him. I also said he had been a net plus.

 

I like the two trade that essentially gave us McGuire and sent Vaz packing, because Vaz was a rental during what I felt was an already "lost season." I was also for trading anybody and everybody that was not tied down, and I certainly did not hate JD, Bogey, Wacha, Hill and Strahm.

 

I got called out for wrongly claiming Red "hated" Kike, and I still have my doubts, but he never said it, and I've apologized.

 

No way I would have paid what Vaz ended up getting from the Twins, but I wish him luck vs the Yanks, Jays, Rays...

[moonslav59]

It wasn’t me, but probably just a matter of opportunity.

 

I’m glad Sale had a great outing. Not actually surprised because 1) Fangraphs had his average fastball velocity at a respectable 93mph before that outing and 2) the Twins’ offense is dreadful. Still he managed to exceed my meager expectations and (more important) not get hurt.

 

Now I can go back to my off-season prediction that the Sox season depends heavily on Sale…

 

I think jacko has been pretty rough on Sale's chances at returning to somewhere near what he was.

 

I'm still trying to temper my excitement over last night's outing. He may still have some blips, along the way, but as I have said before, I don't know any baseball player that seems to be as fierce a competitor as...

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

 

[notin]

Seems like a lot of fans, a lot of RS players, and certainly the radio announcers are pretty demonstrative in their support of Vaz. But what do Joe Castiglione or R. Devers know about baseball or team chemistry. (I assume the ovation Vaz got was the same that, say, JH or CB get when they show up for games, even of different sports.)

 

Vazquez was a free agent. He was going to leave in 2 months unless the Sox topped the Twins’ offer.

 

Also didn’t his replacement have a big hit last night?

[mvp 78]

Looks like Wong is catching tonight, so here goes.

 

Today, I am falling on my sword. McGuire sucks until he proves otherwise.

[Bellhorn04]

McGuire can hit a bit, though. That was a beauty last night.

[mvp 78]

Meanwhile, Christian Vazquez, who is hitting .325 for the Twins, caught a pretty good game until the the disastrous 10th in which he failed to block a 3d strike wild pitch because he raised his glove to catch the hop instead of blocking it--and the ball went right under his glove. He also got called for catcher interference. So all by himself Vazquez put two Sox players on base. Sweet.

 

Plus, after he was called for interference, he kept pointing to the back of his glove as if to say, "hey, not my fault. The batter hit my glove." The guy is just ignorant as heck.

 

Vaz is great, but that first paragraph may be the most Vazquez thing ever written.

[mvp 78]

McGuire can hit a bit, though. That was a beauty last night.

 

Great inside out swing on that one for sure.