How will the Red Sox do?

[Old Red]

Just as you ask "who has given up," I ask, "who said things would be AWESOME?"

 

Are you kidding me? Really? Bloom said it!

 

But I want to be clear: We’re going to do this. It’s going to be awesome!

Edited April 1, 2023 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

Are you kidding me? Really? Bloom said it!

 

But I want to be clear: We’re going to do this. It’s going to be awesome!

 

He was talking about at some point, not specifically, this year.

 

Once again, context, context, context...

 

You know who we have and you know there’s more coming. You know it’s not always linear. It’s not always easy. We’ve taken a couple of haymakers. You know what? We’re probably gonna take a couple more. This is baseball. It’s not supposed to be easy. But I want to be clear. We’re going to do this. It’s going to be awesome. We are going to get there and I just wanted to thank all of you for your support and hope it’s a little clearer today.”

[Old Red]

He was talking about at some point, not specifically, this year.

 

Once again, context, context, context...

 

You know who we have and you know there’s more coming. You know it’s not always linear. It’s not always easy. We’ve taken a couple of haymakers. You know what? We’re probably gonna take a couple more. This is baseball. It’s not supposed to be easy. But I want to be clear. We’re going to do this. It’s going to be awesome. We are going to get there and I just wanted to thank all of you for your support and hope it’s a little clearer today.”

Yes context, context,context. I never said he was talking about this year, but as usual you took the big jump, and over analyzed. Did you hear the BOO birds yesterday? One game into the season was all it took, and that says it all! Bloom, or JH, or anyone else are not going to get any leeway this year. The fans, or at least some of them are not going to wait for something that may never happen for a bunch of suspects to come, and save the day. A bunch of garbage was thrown out there yesterday on the mound, and it didn’t give a very good first impression to start the season.

[moonslav59]

Yes context, context,context. I never said he was talking about this year, but as usual you took the big jump, and over analyzed. Did you hear the BOO birds yesterday? One game into the season was all it took, and that says it all! Bloom, or JH, or anyone else are not going to get any leeway this year. The fans, or at least some of them are not going to wait for something that may never happen for a bunch of suspects to come, and save the day. A bunch of garbage was thrown out there yesterday on the mound, and it didn’t give a very good first impression to start the season.

 

It's you overanalyzing, and you jump right into talking about this year, anyway.

 

I never said you were talking about this year. I just pointed out Bloom was not.

 

Yes, I heard the boos.

 

Yes, I have said this was Bloom's make or break winter.

 

I agree, there is little or no "leaway."

 

Calling some of our players garbage after one game is classic.

[Old Red]

It's you overanalyzing, and you jump right into talking about this year, anyway.

 

I never said you were talking about this year. I just pointed out Bloom was not.

 

Yes, I heard the boos.

 

Yes, I have said this was Bloom's make or break winter.

 

I agree, there is little or no "leaway."

 

Calling some of our players garbage after one game is classic.

 

The bottom line is that lots of fans are not waiting any longer for Bloom to make things awesome, so if that’s over analyzing then so be it. There has been more than one poster on here trashing Ort, and the Bra Man the last few years, so if I do it you call it classic after 1 game. Or would it be better to call them a clown like you did on another thread? Wow!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The bottom line is that lots of fans are not waiting any longer for Bloom to make things awesome, so if that’s over analyzing then so be it. There has been more than one poster on here trashing Ort, and the Bra Man the last few years, so if I do it you call it classic after 1 game. Or would it be better to call them a clown like you did on another thread? Wow!

 

Losing on Opening Day is never the end of the world, but how it is lost can often make it seem that way. For example, longtime Red Sox fans can remember the downer of brand new closers blowing Opening Days in the last inning.

 

This winter the front office rebuilt the bullpen. The relievers used on Thursday didn't look any different than last year. But let's not ignore the depressing fact that Boston's choice for Opening Day starter averaged around 87 mph. Fans aren't idiots, but neither are the Orioles.

 

They both quickly realized that those weren't change-ups.

 

But all it will take to change the outlook is one great game by Chris Sale. Or more likely, just a good six-inning start by anyone in the rotation, followed by three lights-out relief frames. And a W.

[Bellhorn04]

The bottom line is that lots of fans are not waiting any longer for Bloom to make things awesome, so if that’s over analyzing then so be it. There has been more than one poster on here trashing Ort, and the Bra Man the last few years, so if I do it you call it classic after 1 game. Or would it be better to call them a clown like you did on another thread? Wow!

 

Fair point. Almost all of us are abusive toward Red Sox players who aren't getting the job done. And "clowns" is not very different from "garbage".

[Old Red]

Fair point. Almost all of us are abusive toward Red Sox players who aren't getting the job done. And "clowns" is not very different from "garbage".

 

Also it’s not after 1 game. Bra Man, and Ort have made enough appearances for a judgement to be made.

[moonslav59]

The bottom line is that lots of fans are not waiting any longer for Bloom to make things awesome, so if that’s over analyzing then so be it. There has been more than one poster on here trashing Ort, and the Bra Man the last few years, so if I do it you call it classic after 1 game. Or would it be better to call them a clown like you did on another thread? Wow!

 

Just pointing out that responding to what a poster implies is what you call overanalyzing, and we all do it.

 

BTW, some "The some have bought into what Bloom is cooking..." statement and other posts that hint or flat out claim there are posters that defend Bloom on everything or even most things, to me, misses the mark.

 

Many of us felt and still feel this:

 

1. Even before 2018 and certainly by the end of 2019, the state of the farm and budget led many of us to think some sort of reckoning was coming. Many did not think it would be so sudden and deep, but the writing was on the wall.

 

2. Many of us feel the way to build and maintain a winning system is by having a strong farm- a farm that continually provides "new blood" at a low cost for several years at a time. A piece may be used for trading, when needed, but never to an extreme. (It looked like Henry did not think DD was the guy for this philosophy.)

 

3. It looked like Bloom was hired to begin this process, and his restricted budgets, early on looked designed to get the longer term budget situation under more control. The massive budget cuts before 2020 (Betts, Price, Porcello and others were not replaced with anything even close to resembling their salaries until maybe March of 2022 with Story and 2023, which also saw the departure of a lot of salary before this past winter.)

 

4. Hardly any top prospects were traded for vets or rentals. I think the most highly ranked one was Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber. The hoarding of prospects was an obvious priority. Many trades for vets or ML ready players also involved us getting a prospect: German with Ottavino, Hamilton & Binelas with JBJ, Seabold w Pivetta, Ferguson & Rosier w Hosmer plus straight out vets for prospect trades like Vaz for Valdez & Abreu. Nobody is claiming these trades were spectacular success, and in fact many of those labeled as Bloom apologists were highly critical of a few of these moves from day one.

 

In short, there was an obvious organizational shift in methodology and strategy. Yes, many of us were and many still are on board with the change in direction, but it does not mean we are sure it has been a success. We don't and can't know. This massive philosophical change takes time to establish and then more time to see results. To me, that is what Bloom was speaking to with his "Awesome" statement. He thinks the guys he has acquired are good enough to become top contenders, at some point. I'm not sure he feels his timetable means we'll win a lot in 2023, but I do know the fans expect it, and who can blame them?

 

Those of us who believe in the new plan, which by the way is very similar to the "plan" used by the Astros, Rays and other winning teams, tend to frown on the idea that spending big on high profile FAs as a viable, continuing solution, although there may be times it is essential. (One might view the Devers extension in this light, although he was not a FA.)

 

When we express agreement or pleasure towards the plan put in action, it is not with the belief that we are sure the moves made will work, of the one making them, Bloom, is a genius or even a very capable GM at making it all work. We applaud the effort and direction, and like any moves or decisions made, wait in hopes that they work. Many of us feel acquiring better-ranked prospects should eventually lead to more prospects making an impact. Yes, to a large extent all are just "suspects" until they prove something at the big level, but to me, increasing the numbers of good prospects and the perceived quality, as well, should lead to better results.

 

The fact is, the results are still a year or more away for many of these prospects, and many of the prospects Bloom acquired via trades have not shown brightly, at all. The vast majority have fizzles or stayed stagnant on the farm. Several are not even around, anymore, like German, Seabold, Potts and others. The best ones appear to be Wink, Valdez & Abreu. Whoop-dee-freakin-doo! Some may argue the players traded away were not all that great or had limited team control remaining on a team looking at a longer term rebuild, but that doesn't make those bad trades any better. Saying "it was the thought that counts" rings hollow to many, including me.

 

The results on the ML field, so far, look mostly bad, except for the glimmer of hope in 2021. There is no denying this. One can speak to expectations and where they should have been after 2019 and the Betts purge and budget cuts, but no doubt, a rebuild on a team spending like ours does should be showing results by this year. Injuries, rising FA costs, and other teams more firmly holding onto their young talent can be used as excuses, here and there, but all teams face much of these things, like we do.

 

To me, the trend looks to be upward, despite the win loss records not showing it. The infusion of young and QUALITY talent added to the 26 and 40 man rosters each year has greatly ticked up. I know I sound like a broken record, but this point is a major reason why we have sucked after 2018: after Devers, only Houck has given us any significant value from the farm. That was a five year period (2017-2021.) That is an eternity in baseball, when your roster is 40 men deep.

 

Now, many of the recent additions to the 40 and 26 are still suspect or even highly suspect, I find it hard for any fan to not been encouraged by the improved young talent outlook, when compared to 2017-2020.

 

Beyond some young (at the time) ML talent Bloom acquired, like Pivetta, Verdugo, Arroyo, Schreiber, Refsnyder, McGuire and others who have contributed in some ways, part of his philosophy of not trading away prospects and trying to acquire some- beyond drafting and IFA signings- has allowed these players to already have some ML experience under their belt:

 

DD's guys not traded...

Houck

Casas

Bello

Crawford

(Dalbec)

 

Blooms guys...

Whitlock

Winckowski

Wong

Kelly

 

Soon to come...

Mata

Rafaela

Walter

Valdez

Murphy

Hamilton

Abreu

Mills

 

To me, this looks, on paper, like a massive improvement to the team's longer term outlook. Call me a "homer" or a "Bloom lover" all you want, but I don't see it like that. I feel like the optimism is justified, and I haven't even mentioned father away guys like Mayer, Bleis and maybe Yorke, Perales, Anthony, Wikleman, Paulino and others.

 

I think a major philosophical change was needed, and I think we chose the right direction. Did we choose the right GM to do it? I'm not sure. I have said, and still believe, this last winter was Bloom's "legacy winter" or "make or break" time. Unlike others, here, I like our chances in 2023, but see the longer plan as being more important.

 

Fans are beyond restless, and justifiably so. It could very well be Bloom's sink or swim season. If we suck, again, it will be hard to justify keeping him on board, unless, somehow, the 2024 and beyond future looks remarkably better and extremely promising.

 

We'll see what unfolds.

 

 

 

[jacksonianmarch]

slav, did you just admit that there was a cliff without saying there was a cliff? All the years of you guys giving me s*** and validation feels very good

[moonslav59]

Fair point. Almost all of us are abusive toward Red Sox players who aren't getting the job done. And "clowns" is not very different from "garbage".

 

Clowns are at least likeable buffoons who at least try to be entertaining and are usually not viewed with despair.

 

Garbage is what it is. I think the connotations for each word are miles apart, but that's just my opinion.

 

(BTW, I don't view Kluber as garbage or clownish. The book on Kelly is largely unwritten.)

[jacksonianmarch]

I am sorry, the sox team doesn't hunt. You do not let a generational talent walk and replace him with nobody. You do not let a durable generational talent walk while your internal replacement holds an IL reservation on the yearly. You build a suspect, injury prone rotation and back it up with a terrible, washed up pen. This team is so poorly constructed it makes me wonder if Bloom is actively tanking to await the Yanks pulling back a bit

[Old Red]

Just pointing out that responding to what a poster implies is what you call overanalyzing, and we all do it.

 

BTW, some "The some have bought into what Bloom is cooking..." statement and other posts that hint or flat out claim there are posters that defend Bloom on everything or even most things, to me, misses the mark.

 

Many of us felt and still feel this:

 

1. Even before 2018 and certainly by the end of 2019, the state of the farm and budget led many of us to think some sort of reckoning was coming. Many did not think it would be so sudden and deep, but the writing was on the wall.

 

2. Many of us feel the way to build and maintain a winning system is by having a strong farm- a farm that continually provides "new blood" at a low cost for several years at a time. A piece may be used for trading, when needed, but never to an extreme. (It looked like Henry did not think DD was the guy for this philosophy.)

 

3. It looked like Bloom was hired to begin this process, and his restricted budgets, early on looked designed to get the longer term budget situation under more control. The massive budget cuts before 2020 (Betts, Price, Porcello and others were not replaced with anything even close to resembling their salaries until maybe March of 2022 with Story and 2023, which also saw the departure of a lot of salary before this past winter.)

 

4. Hardly any top prospects were traded for vets or rentals. I think the most highly ranked one was Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber. The hoarding of prospects was an obvious priority. Many trades for vets or ML ready players also involved us getting a prospect: German with Ottavino, Hamilton & Binelas with JBJ, Seabold w Pivetta, Ferguson & Rosier w Hosmer plus straight out vets for prospect trades like Vaz for Valdez & Abreu. Nobody is claiming these trades were spectacular success, and in fact many of those labeled as Bloom apologists were highly critical of a few of these moves from day one.

 

In short, there was an obvious organizational shift in methodology and strategy. Yes, many of us were and many still are on board with the change in direction, but it does not mean we are sure it has been a success. We don't and can't know. This massive philosophical change takes time to establish and then more time to see results. To me, that is what Bloom was speaking to with his "Awesome" statement. He thinks the guys he has acquired are good enough to become top contenders, at some point. I'm not sure he feels his timetable means we'll win a lot in 2023, but I do know the fans expect it, and who can blame them?

 

Those of us who believe in the new plan, which by the way is very similar to the "plan" used by the Astros, Rays and other winning teams, tend to frown on the idea that spending big on high profile FAs as a viable, continuing solution, although there may be times it is essential. (One might view the Devers extension in this light, although he was not a FA.)

 

When we express agreement or pleasure towards the plan put in action, it is not with the belief that we are sure the moves made will work, of the one making them, Bloom, is a genius or even a very capable GM at making it all work. We applaud the effort and direction, and like any moves or decisions made, wait in hopes that they work. Many of us feel acquiring better-ranked prospects should eventually lead to more prospects making an impact. Yes, to a large extent all are just "suspects" until they prove something at the big level, but to me, increasing the numbers of good prospects and the perceived quality, as well, should lead to better results.

 

The fact is, the results are still a year or more away for many of these prospects, and many of the prospects Bloom acquired via trades have not shown brightly, at all. The vast majority have fizzles or stayed stagnant on the farm. Several are not even around, anymore, like German, Seabold, Potts and others. The best ones appear to be Wink, Valdez & Abreu. Whoop-dee-freakin-doo! Some may argue the players traded away were not all that great or had limited team control remaining on a team looking at a longer term rebuild, but that doesn't make those bad trades any better. Saying "it was the thought that counts" rings hollow to many, including me.

 

The results on the ML field, so far, look mostly bad, except for the glimmer of hope in 2021. There is no denying this. One can speak to expectations and where they should have been after 2019 and the Betts purge and budget cuts, but no doubt, a rebuild on a team spending like ours does should be showing results by this year. Injuries, rising FA costs, and other teams more firmly holding onto their young talent can be used as excuses, here and there, but all teams face much of these things, like we do.

 

To me, the trend looks to be upward, despite the win loss records not showing it. The infusion of young and QUALITY talent added to the 26 and 40 man rosters each year has greatly ticked up. I know I sound like a broken record, but this point is a major reason why we have sucked after 2018: after Devers, only Houck has given us any significant value from the farm. That was a five year period (2017-2021.) That is an eternity in baseball, when your roster is 40 men deep.

 

Now, many of the recent additions to the 40 and 26 are still suspect or even highly suspect, I find it hard for any fan to not been encouraged by the improved young talent outlook, when compared to 2017-2020.

 

Beyond some young (at the time) ML talent Bloom acquired, like Pivetta, Verdugo, Arroyo, Schreiber, Refsnyder, McGuire and others who have contributed in some ways, part of his philosophy of not trading away prospects and trying to acquire some- beyond drafting and IFA signings- has allowed these players to already have some ML experience under their belt:

 

DD's guys not traded...

Houck

Casas

Bello

Crawford

(Dalbec)

 

Blooms guys...

Whitlock

Winckowski

Wong

Kelly

 

Soon to come...

Mata

Rafaela

Walter

Valdez

Murphy

Hamilton

Abreu

Mills

 

To me, this looks, on paper, like a massive improvement to the team's longer term outlook. Call me a "homer" or a "Bloom lover" all you want, but I don't see it like that. I feel like the optimism is justified, and I haven't even mentioned father away guys like Mayer, Bleis and maybe Yorke, Perales, Anthony, Wikleman, Paulino and others.

 

I think a major philosophical change was needed, and I think we chose the right direction. Did we choose the right GM to do it? I'm not sure. I have said, and still believe, this last winter was Bloom's "legacy winter" or "make or break" time. Unlike others, here, I like our chances in 2023, but see the longer plan as being more important.

 

Fans are beyond restless, and justifiably so. It could very well be Bloom's sink or swim season. If we suck, again, it will be hard to justify keeping him on board, unless, somehow, the 2024 and beyond future looks remarkably better and extremely promising.

 

We'll see what unfolds.

 

 

 

 

What a word salad, and a perfect example of quantity not quality. YUCK!

[Old Red]

Clowns are at least likeable buffoons who at least try to be entertaining and are usually not viewed with despair.

 

Garbage is what it is. I think the connotations for each word are miles apart, but that's just my opinion.

 

(BTW, I don't view Kluber as garbage or clownish. The book on Kelly is largely unwritten.)

Once again YUCK!

[moonslav59]

slav, did you just admit that there was a cliff without saying there was a cliff? All the years of you guys giving me s*** and validation feels very good

 

Huh?

 

I have always been firmly in the cliff-dwelling camp.

 

I saw it coming. I had hoped we could get to 2020 with the residuals of the 2018 team carrying us to further competitiveness, but the writing was clearly on the wall.

 

2021 may have actually caused more harm to the rebuild than we know.

 

I do not view 2023 as part of the cliff, and the big club should be looking better, on paper, than it does, now. Obvious mistakes were made, as with every team (see the Montas trade,) but to me, the direction of this team is on a significant rise, and I like our chances, this year, enough to think we are not in the midst of a cliff.

 

I think the statement by Bloom, which mentions the likelihood of some further blips on the way towards sustained success, could imply or suggest 2023 might no go as well as hoped or expected, and I do not disagree with that, but I think we are easily not still in the "cliff" era.

 

I think Bloom has done a pretty good job building up the farm and improving the budget by minimizing long term albatrosses. It's all on paper, though.

 

I do not share your Sox doom and gloom outlook, but I certainly know 2023 may go horribly wrong.

[moonslav59]

What a word salad, and a perfect example of quantity not quality. YUCK!

 

Thank you for your non-overanalyzation post.

 

Very insightful and telling.

 

[Old Red]

Thank you for your non-overanalyzation post.

 

Very insightful and telling.

 

 

Yuck, yuck, yuck day, and night, and the amazing part is Jacks, and Stork get things right more than you do. How do you account for that? It’s just as simple as 1-2-4.

[moonslav59]

Yuck, yuck, yuck day, and night, and the amazing part is Jacks, and Stork get things right more than you do. How do you account for that? It’s just as simple as 1-2-4.

 

Insightful as always. I just stated how I see the situation, If you don't want to talk the actual issues, fine. I think I know why, but I won't say what should be said.

 

Defending Stork pretty much sums you up to a tee.

[Bellhorn04]

I see the Moon and Old Red Show is back on. Beautiful.

[Old Red]

I see the Moon and Old Red Show is back on. Beautiful.

 

No that was just a commercial.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought you two said you were going to cut out this crap. Somebody needs to put somebody on ignore, rather than subjecting the rest of the forum to this again and again.

[Old Red]

I thought you two said you were going to cut out this crap. Somebody needs to put somebody on ignore, rather than subjecting the rest of the forum to this again and again.

 

Ding dong it’s drizly!

[Old Red]

I thought you two said you were going to cut out this crap. Somebody needs to put somebody on ignore, rather than subjecting the rest of the forum to this again and again.

 

I’m not the only one who goes, or has gone back, and forth with him.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m not the only one who goes, or has gone back, and forth with him.

 

You're the leader by a landslide.

[Old Red]

You're the leader by a landslide.

 

All time maybe, but if you go back the last 30 days I would say no. Probably even longer than that, and it’s not something I’m proud about either.

[mvp 78]

I thought you two said you were going to cut out this crap. Somebody needs to put somebody on ignore, rather than subjecting the rest of the forum to this again and again.

 

Yup

[jad]

I have had them both on Block for a long time. Keep me informed how their middle-school spat goes.

[moonslav59]

Seems like there are a lot less posts after a win.

[sk7326]

Seems like there are a lot less posts after a win.

 

If the team keeps scoring 8 runs a game, gotta like their chances.

[moonslav59]

If the team keeps scoring 8 runs a game, gotta like their chances.

 

I never doubted our O would be good, but this is mind-boggling.

 

It was the O's pitching, and now we face PIT, so ....

 

Yes, gotta like the start.