A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Nick]

So you’re not sold on the GM, whose job does include predicting the future? But you’re completely sold on Cora, who Kike/SS situation showed he struggles to recall the recent past?

 

Thank you. Finally a poster with unbiased view on Cora.

 

Cora is a good manager. But he was wrong on Kike.

 

I like Bloom. But he has made many missteps. Going over the tax limit last year without going for it was a big mistake. Don't half ass it Bloom.

[Dipre]

Cora likes to give players a chance to break out of their slumps, sometimes it works (Casas), sometimes it doesn't (Kike), but some slack must be cut considering his lack of options for a while there.

[notin]

What about game-calling? That's kind of an X factor. There was a game after which Paxton highly praised Wong's game-calling.

 

Catchers only execute a pre-determined plan…

[notin]

Cora likes to give players a chance to break out of their slumps, sometimes it works (Casas), sometimes it doesn't (Kike), but some slack must be cut considering his lack of options for a while there.

 

Kike didn’t look like a defensive slump. He just looked incapable of handling the position…

[Dipre]

Kike didn’t look like a defensive slump. He just looked incapable of handling the position…

 

What options did he have during most of Kike's run?

[Nick]

Cora likes to give players a chance to break out of their slumps, sometimes it works (Casas), sometimes it doesn't (Kike), but some slack must be cut considering his lack of options for a while there.

Kike is a veteran. His low offensive production was secondary to his bad defense.

 

Casa was a high ranking rookie.

 

You stick him in 9th hole and carry him.

 

It's paid off.

[Dipre]

Kike is a veteran. His low offensive production was secondary to his bad defense.

 

Casa was a high ranking rookie.

 

You stick him in 9th hole and carry him.

 

It's paid off.

 

Remember he did not only play him at SS, and that is where his defensive value was really in the negatives.

[Nick]

What options did he have during most of Kike's run?

 

Bring up a guy that can field ss. There must be hundreds of these guys. You know defense first shortstops.

 

Christ we got Reyes from Oakland for $75K. Think hard about that.

 

What option did a ball club with $215M payroll have?

 

You guys kill me.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Nick

[Dipre]

Bring up a guy that can field ss. There must be hundreds of these guys. You know defense first shortststops.

 

Christ we got Reyes from Oakland for $75K. Think hard about that.

 

What option did a balk club with $215M oayroll have?

 

You guys kill me.

 

The problem is that you seem to think that roster management and team morale aren't a thing, and they are. This team both had a roster crunch, weren't going to rush any of their prospects, and Kike was well liked by both players and manager. They were going to give him every chance to show he could produce. It's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. Was Cora right? No. Was he entirely to blame? Tell me if you expected Story and Chang to both be injured at the same time and then answer that question.

[Larry Cook]

Did anybody else think our depth at shortstop was thin going into the season?

[Maxbialystock]

Thank you. Finally a poster with unbiased view on Cora.

 

Cora is a good manager. But he was wrong on Kike.

 

I like Bloom. But he has made many missteps. Going over the tax limit last year without going for it was a big mistake. Don't half ass it Bloom.

 

The Sox won more games than the lost (I think 44-41) with Kike in the lineup.

 

July has been a great month for the Sox, and lousy, stinking, rotten Kike--the guy everyone wanted DFA'd months ago--played in 12 July games before departing--and the Sox won 8 of them. Plus, as soon as he joined the Dodgers, who are leading the NL West, they installed him in the middle infield, where he played for the Sox.

 

I do not disagree that Kike was not nearly as good as expected this year. His overall WAR with the Sox was -0.7, mostly because of his rotten hitting (OPS .599). But he was playing out of position and moved to the infield only because the Sox were desperate. Story has been on the IL 3 months now, and Chang and Reyes were both on the IL for I'm guessing a month apiece: Chang has played in 33 games out of 104 and Reyes in 28 games.

[moonslav59]

Did anybody else think our depth at shortstop was thin going into the season?

 

Does anybody expect a GM on a reset budget to build a roster 3 deep and strong at every position?

 

Yes, many of us wanted more SS depth.

Yes, we could have added someone like Iggy midseason- maybe.

 

SS depth was not close to our biggest weakness to start the year. It just became it.

[moonslav59]

Sox Games Behind:

 

-1.5 TOR WC

-1.5 HOU WC

-3.5 TEX (If HOU passes TEX, they will be WC team)

-5.5 TBR WC#1

-7.0 BAL Div lead and AL best record

 

We are currently tied with PHI for the 9th best record in MLB.

-0.5 MIL

-2.5 LAD

-10.0 ATL

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Does anybody expect a GM on a reset budget to build a roster 3 deep and strong at every position?

 

Yes, many of us wanted more SS depth.

Yes, we could have added someone like Iggy midseason- maybe.

 

SS depth was not close to our biggest weakness to start the year. It just became it.

 

Please, no more injury excuses when it comes to shortstop -- the most important non-battery defensive position on the field.

You know, I know, we all know that after Bogaerts left, Bloom chose not to acquire a legitimate MLB starting shortstop going into the season.

 

We can debate the reasons why the CBO rolled the dice with a career utility man who never played SS fulltime, the ghost of Mondesi, a WBC hero who played for four big league teams last year, and a Triple A guy who couldn't even make the worst club in the majors (not to mention a converted second baseman with an elbow wrapped in Tommy John underwear).

 

But is there any doubt the shortstop debacle is a main reason the Sox are chasing a wild card, rather than sporting a record that would have them ahead of at least a few other contenders right now...

[Bellhorn04]

Sox Games Behind:

 

-1.5 TOR WC

-1.5 HOU WC

-3.5 TEX (If HOU passes TEX, they will be WC team)

-5.5 TBR WC#1

-7.0 BAL Div lead and AL best record

 

We are currently tied with PHI for the 9th best record in MLB.

-0.5 MIL

-2.5 LAD

-10.0 ATL

 

 

Sorry moon, but we're 2.5 games behind the Jays and Stros.

[moonslav59]

Please, no more injury excuses when it comes to shortstop -- the most important non-battery defensive position on the field.

You know, I know, we all know that after Bogaerts left, Bloom chose not to acquire a legitimate MLB starting shortstop going into the season.

 

We can debate the reasons why the CBO rolled the dice with a career utility man who never played SS fulltime, the ghost of Mondesi, a WBC hero who played for four big league teams last year, and a Triple A guy who couldn't even make the worst club in the majors (not to mention a converted second baseman with an elbow wrapped in Tommy John underwear).

 

But is there any doubt the shortstop debacle is a main reason the Sox are chasing a wild card, rather than sporting a record that would have them ahead of at least a few other contenders right now...

 

I was all for signing Swanson.

I was all for Andrus.

I had hopes we’d add Iggy when he was available after the season started.

 

I also thought Kike would be okay at SS.

Nobody thought Mondesi would miss the full year.

Chang was and still is a decent back up.

DHam was apparently protected for a reason.

 

It’s not excuse making. We all know Bloom chose to fill other high need areas over SS and SP. I remember some poster bitching about not adding a catcher, 1Bman and bettter OF choices.

 

SS was an issue day one. The hope was Kike and Chang could hold it down until Mondesi (May) and Story (August) returned. DHam offered some minor depth. It all failed, miserably, but at the time it was just one of many worries, at a time when the money was just about all spent.

 

Had Casas and Turner bombed, we’d be bitching about Bloom missing the boat at 1B.

 

Had Kluber done well, we might have not cared so much about the SS mess.

 

Had Wong flipped, we’d be saying Bloom’s neglect at C was his major mistake, and who here didn’t see it?

 

Our OF was putrid, last year. We had so many holes to fill from that and departing respectable players. Bloom made his choices on which ones needed more attention. Many were right that he miss guessed on some areas over others, at the time. In hindsight, it’s clear he missed at SS and SPer.

 

I guess he could have not signed Yoshida or traded Duran for a SS.

 

It’s easy to say he should not have signed Kluber or counted on Mondesi, but to me, that’s less than the norm for”mistakes” when you consider he had about 13 slots to fill or improve on. He rolled the dice on 1B and C, so he could steer more resources to the pen and OF. Good job. He rolled the dice on Bello, Paxton, Sale, Kluber, Pivetta, Whit,Houck and others and got mixed results. He rolled the dice on 3 healthy SSs and 2 injured ones and lost, bigly. All GMs are graded in hindsight, and he gets an F at SS.

 

When the season started, I was more worried about the rotation, OF and maybe 1B and C as much as SS.

 

 

on.

[moonslav59]

Sorry moon, but we're 2.5 games behind the Jays and Stros.

 

My bad.

[Bellhorn04]

I was all for signing Swanson.

I was all for Andrus.

I had hopes we’d add Iggy when he was available after the season started.

 

One of these things is not like the others.

[moonslav59]

One of these things is not like the others.

 

Just one and we’d be sitting in a WC seat, right now.

 

I just find it hard to get super angry, when so many other choices were good to great ones (so far.)

[Bellhorn04]

Just one and we’d be sitting in a WC seat, right now.

 

I just find it hard to get super angry, when so many other choices were good to great ones (so far.)

 

I know. But our season is still in a very precarious state. If we fall short it's inevitable that you look at the mistakes that cost us.

[oldtimer]

I was all for signing Swanson.

I was all for Andrus.

I had hopes we’d add Iggy when he was available after the season started.

 

I also thought Kike would be okay at SS.

Nobody thought Mondesi would miss the full year.

Chang was and still is a decent back up.

DHam was apparently protected for a reason.

 

It’s not excuse making. We all know Bloom chose to fill other high need areas over SS and SP. I remember some poster bitching about not adding a catcher, 1Bman and bettter OF choices.

 

SS was an issue day one. The hope was Kike and Chang could hold it down until Mondesi (May) and Story (August) returned. DHam offered some minor depth. It all failed, miserably, but at the time it was just one of many worries, at a time when the money was just about all spent.

 

Had Casas and Turner bombed, we’d be bitching about Bloom missing the boat at 1B.

 

Had Kluber done well, we might have not cared so much about the SS mess.

 

Had Wong flipped, we’d be saying Bloom’s neglect at C was his major mistake, and who here didn’t see it?

 

Our OF was putrid, last year. We had so many holes to fill from that and departing respectable players. Bloom made his choices on which ones needed more attention. Many were right that he miss guessed on some areas over others, at the time. In hindsight, it’s clear he missed at SS and SPer.

 

I guess he could have not signed Yoshida or traded Duran for a SS.

 

It’s easy to say he should not have signed Kluber or counted on Mondesi, but to me, that’s less than the norm for”mistakes” when you consider he had about 13 slots to fill or improve on. He rolled the dice on 1B and C, so he could steer more resources to the pen and OF. Good job. He rolled the dice on Bello, Paxton, Sale, Kluber, Pivetta, Whit,Houck and others and got mixed results. He rolled the dice on 3 healthy SSs and 2 injured ones and lost, bigly. All GMs are graded in hindsight, and he gets an F at SS.

 

When the season started, I was more worried about the rotation, OF and maybe 1B and C as much as SS.

 

 

on.

My view as early as May was that we weren't a playoff caliber team let alone a WS competitor. We were missing quality at too many positions and my thought was to trade away the players with value who wouldn't be around for 2024 on and by doing so make us competitive. It appears I was wrong in my assessment as Duran, Casas and Yoshida all exceeded expectations and the pitching, while short of starters due to injuries, held together. Now, with Story and 3 starters likely back in August, the team may be able to overtake at least a couple of teams and looks competitive.

 

Getting rid of the underperforming Kike was a good idea but I would avoid letting go of others who are helping us despite the likelihood of them being gone next year. Trades of Dalbec or some of our mid quality prospects to get additional pitching would be agreeable to me. I have been pleasantly surprised by the Sox streak and hope it can continue.

[Nick]

The problem is that you seem to think that roster management and team morale aren't a thing, and they are. This team both had a roster crunch, weren't going to rush any of their prospects, and Kike was well liked by both players and manager. They were going to give him every chance to show he could produce. It's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. Was Cora right? No. Was he entirely to blame? Tell me if you expected Story and Chang to both be injured at the same time and then answer that question.

 

It's odd that in another chat site, fans were insinuating that Kike was selfish and some of his teammates were getting tired of his me first antics.

[Bellhorn04]

It's odd that in another chat site, fans were insinuating that Kike was selfish and some of his teammates were getting tired of his me first antics.

 

How would said fans know this, is the question. If there are any actual quotes from players, by all means let's have 'em, I say.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How would said fans know this, is the question. If there are any actual quotes from players, by all means let's have 'em, I say.

 

Those old teammates were just jealous of his green shoes. And that his wife was Miss Puerto Rico...

[moonslav59]

I know. But our season is still in a very precarious state. If we fall short it's inevitable that you look at the mistakes that cost us.

 

That's natural.

 

Not acquiring a SP'er might prove to be the biggest mistake.

 

If we get one at the deadline, that might be enough. If we had one from couple days ago, that could start tonight or tomorrow, it might have meant one more win. If we lose by 1 game, we may look back at these pre-deadline deals and ponder...

[moonslav59]

It's odd that in another chat site, fans were insinuating that Kike was selfish and some of his teammates were getting tired of his me first antics.

 

Why keep spreading unfounded rumors?

[Bellhorn04]

That's natural.

 

Not acquiring a SP'er might prove to be the biggest mistake.

 

If we get one at the deadline, that might be enough. If we had one from couple days ago, that could start tonight or tomorrow, it might have meant one more win. If we lose by 1 game, we may look back at these pre-deadline deals and ponder...

 

We're on a great run right now, 16-6.

 

But the 40-42 start might ultimately do us in.

[moonslav59]

We're on a great run right now, 16-6.

 

But the 40-42 start might ultimately do us in.

 

Nah...

 

We just need to play TOR and NYY, again.

[notin]

What options did he have during most of Kike's run?

 

Pablo Reyes was largely ignored as a shortstop. Chang didn’t get his first start until 5 errors into Kike’s run. When both got hurt, Bloom took too long to call up Hamilton. But even once he did, Kike still played SS on occasion.

 

Cora did insist on occasionally injecting Kike at SS throughout the starting tenur of all 3 players, despite his poor play and the Sox poor (re:losing) record when Kike played SS. And it’s not like Kike was hitting.

 

I get players needing the occasional off day, but Kike never seemed to get one. But everyone else did to give Kike a chance to play…

[notin]

Those old teammates were just jealous of his green shoes. And that his wife was Miss Puerto Rico...

 

No no no.

 

His wife missed Puerto Rico. That’s all…