2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

I’ve been calling him DFA Fodder since August 3rd. But it’s the only Sox news we’re going to have for a couple weeks…

 

Caleb Hamilton isn't good enough for you?

[mvp 78]

Wash-rinse-repeat you keep saying the same things.What’s going on this year had more to do with injuries, and underperforming than anything else.

 

So if they get healthy and perform to their normal level, they'll be a much better team next year? All this talk about being in last DAMN place is overblown then?

[Bellhorn04]

What exactly do people mean by going “all in”? The team had a payroll of $234 mill last year and people think that’s only going half ass?

 

The Dodgers and Mets went aller inner.

[notin]

I think if they went "all in NOW" but via cashing in their farm pipeline, it could supplement the high cost of a Devers and Bogey contracts. Lots of $$$ is coming off the books that can be spread to those guys. JD, JBJ, Vaz and Eovaldi can all be replaced at a cheaper rate.

 

At some point in the very near future, e we might need a couple of those prospects.

 

When Kike is gone after 2023, I’d rather still have Ceddane Rafaela step in than Corey Rosier or Jarren Duran…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We are seeing what going all in ends up doing. 2018 and the consequences.

 

Repeating that does not seem like a a good plan, and yes, there seems to be vast and fierce differences of opinion of this.

 

I'm in between, but as stated plenty of times they have to start investing in star players again (and that could include extending their own). Even if they think Bello can develop into a #1 or #2, they can't wait around for a few years without acquiring an established ace to transition back to respectability.

 

And at trade deadlines, if the team is winning and in contention for a postseason, it should deal for quality to improve areas of need. MLB clubs are in the business of entertainment, and owe it to customers and employees to provide the best product -- and not take for granted they'll have a shot every year (or a better one, next year).

 

The end of last June was the worst front office inaction -- coming off a winning month, we all could read the upcoming schedule for July. Bloom interns will blame it on injuries, but before the ILs we all saw that the Sox had blatant roster holes to fill. Unfortunately, instead of acquiring actual big leaguers, they chose to rely on obviously inferior minor leaguers. That turned off a lot of viewers and TV sets.

[Bellhorn04]

The end of last June was the worst front office inaction -- coming off a winning month, we all could read the upcoming schedule for July. Bloom interns will blame it on injuries, but before the ILs we all saw that the Sox had blatant roster holes to fill. Unfortunately, instead of acquiring actual big leaguers, they chose to rely on obviously inferior minor leaguers. That turned off a lot of viewers and TV sets.

 

But again, they still ended up with a $234.5 million payroll for tax purposes. Acquiring more actual big leaguers in June-July would only have increased that, and would also have meant trading some prospects, presumably. And probably all for naught.

[mvp 78]

The Dodgers and Mets went aller inner.

 

And what did the Mets really have to show for it? Nothing! Just another embarrassing postseason meltdown.

[mvp 78]

At some point in the very near future, e we might need a couple of those prospects.

 

When Kike is gone after 2023, I’d rather still have Ceddane Rafaela step in than Corey Rosier or Jarren Duran…

 

That's why they need to evaluate which prospects they can deal and which ones they can keep (a la Devers vs Moncada vs Kopech).

[moonslav59]

Why are we replacing 2020 JBJ? He had a career high wRC+ because it was a SSS. Why did you specifically select that year? Just because it was a high point for him? Same with JD and Nate? You pick their best seasons and say "go replace those best seasons." LOL. Instead of replacing the overall player, go replace the best version of that player and do it under the luxury tax because we have to reset this season apparently!

 

To be good, we have to do more than slightly improve on the 2022 JBJ, JD and Nate. That will be costly.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But again, they still ended up with a $234.5 million payroll for tax purposes. Acquiring more actual big leaguers in June-July would only have increased that, and would also have meant trading some prospects, presumably. And probably all for naught.

 

29 of 30 teams that don't win the final game of the World Series could say their season was all for naught. But for fans of clubs who go deep in October, I'll bet they enjoyed the ride. Red Sox fans did last year and didn't even get out of the AL.

 

As for the payroll, forget the dead money owed Price and any others (I won't even count Sale, with his whopping 5.2 IP), but how much did Bloom pay out for actual new player additions -- Wacha, Hill, Diekman, Paxton's gym shorts, etc? That to me, is the accurate guage of whether a franchise is sincere: how much are they spending that year and on whom? And the luxury tax can't be an excuse this season, since they went over and chose to stay over.

[moonslav59]

I'm in between, but as stated plenty of times they have to start investing in star players again (and that could include extending their own). Even if they think Bello can develop into a #1 or #2, they can't wait around for a few years without acquiring an established ace to transition back to respectability.

 

And at trade deadlines, if the team is winning and in contention for a postseason, it should deal for quality to improve areas of need. MLB clubs are in the business of entertainment, and owe it to customers and employees to provide the best product -- and not take for granted they'll have a shot every year (or a better one, next year).

 

The end of last June was the worst front office inaction -- coming off a winning month, we all could read the upcoming schedule for July. Bloom interns will blame it on injuries, but before the ILs we all saw that the Sox had blatant roster holes to fill. Unfortunately, instead of acquiring actual big leaguers, they chose to rely on obviously inferior minor leaguers. That turned off a lot of viewers and TV sets.

 

The end result was that McGuire and Pham did okay to very well, and it obviously wasn't enough. To get a lot better we'd have had to trade better prospects.

 

Should we have traded Mayer and Rafaela for Luis Castillo? Would we still be playing, now, if we did?

 

Would making the fans happier for a few weeks have been worth it?

[moonslav59]

 

As for the payroll, forget the dead money owed Price and any others (I won't even count Sale, with his whopping 5.2 IP), but how much did Bloom pay out for actual new player additions -- Wacha, Hill, Diekman, Paxton's gym shorts, etc? That to me, is the accurate guage of whether a franchise is sincere: how much are they spending that year and on whom? And the luxury tax can't be an excuse this season, since they went over and chose to stay over.

 

You forgot Story and Strahm.

 

Overall, the FA signings was a net plus, IMO, but the JBJ trade took a big chunk our of the overall winter gains.

 

The injuries and drops in production by returning vets, to me, was more of a reason for our major drop from 2021. Perhaps we played over our level in 2021, so maybe that was part of the total equation, too.

[harmony]

At some point in the very near future, e we might need a couple of those prospects.

 

When Kike is gone after 2023, I’d rather still have Ceddane Rafaela step in than Corey Rosier or Jarren Duran…

Ceddanne Rafaela's stock has risen since being unprotected and untouched in last year's Rule 5 draft:

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/examining-the-american-leagues-2022-40-man-crunch/

 

Will the 22-year-old Rafaela sustain his progression after a single breakout season?

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/ceddanne-rafaela/sa3005581/stats?position=3B/OF

[Hugh2]

Beni was a college guy. People liked him, but he wasn't really seen as a sure thing. Nomar was taken 12th, so that hype was definitely further behind. The hype for those guys developed after they started hitting in the minors.

 

From my recollection, Beni was also a guy who popped on the radar last minute. A lot of teams reportedly didn't start scouting him until late because he was a draft-eligible sophomore and I guess people were slow to pick up on that.

[notin]

That's why they need to evaluate which prospects they can deal and which ones they can keep (a la Devers vs Moncada vs Kopech).

 

IMO keep Rafaela.

 

Mayer is a good thought, but 1) extending Bogaerts and 2) drafting Romero should put him in the evaluation. If they really think Romero is going to be just as good, why wouldn’t Mayer be a little more available?

[Hugh2]

Yes the natives are restless, and there is NO time like the PRESENT to go all in. Like Mic said to Rocky in Rocky II. What are we waiting for?! You don’t take years off just to hope that things will get better down the road. If Bloom can’t do it then let’s get someone who can.

 

Ok, but if you want to use the Rocky movie as an example a better visualization is Rocky smoking, drinking, fat and out of shape. Maybe hit the treadmill up for a few months and take a fight. Sox are close, but you don't get from A to Z by skipping the rest of the alphabet

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The end result was that McGuire and Pham did okay to very well, and it obviously wasn't enough. To get a lot better we'd have had to trade better prospects.

 

Should we have traded Mayer and Rafaela for Luis Castillo? Would we still be playing, now, if we did?

 

Would making the fans happier for a few weeks have been worth it?

 

It all depends on one's definition of "worth it." If you asked a hundred Red Sox fans at the end of the '21 regular season if they thought signing Kike Hernandez for $14 million after he hit .250 was worth it, what do you think the majority would say? What if you asked them after the postseason, when he hit .408 with four doubles, one triple and five homers in 11 games?

[mvp 78]

To be good, we have to do more than slightly improve on the 2022 JBJ, JD and Nate. That will be costly.

 

Get a starting rotation that is more likely to stay healthy. Get a bullpen that isn't a complete trainwreck. Re-sign Bogey. Find a RFer.

[Old Red]

So if they get healthy and perform to their normal level, they'll be a much better team next year? All this talk about being in last DAMN place is overblown then?

 

Being in last place is never overblown. Winning a WS in 2018 did not make it all right for 2020, and 2022 to happen.

[mvp 78]

IMO keep Rafaela.

 

Mayer is a good thought, but 1) extending Bogaerts and 2) drafting Romero should put him in the evaluation. If they really think Romero is going to be just as good, why wouldn’t Mayer be a little more available?

 

I think Rafaela has a good chance of being dealt. While he's a great fielder, his batting eye is atrocious. If he was called up to the MLB club in September, he would have had a 40% k rate.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

IMO keep Rafaela.

 

Mayer is a good thought, but 1) extending Bogaerts and 2) drafting Romero should put him in the evaluation. If they really think Romero is going to be just as good, why wouldn’t Mayer be a little more available?

 

I have had the same thought. Trades often involve positions of depth.

 

I'd also keep Rafaela because he's already the system's best defensive player. Maybe he won't have a repeat Mookie extra base hit season, but good defense doesn't go into slumps (and having solid D is the quickest way for pro teams to regain respectability). I also think he'll be in Boston sooner than most predict, depending on how much infield Kike has to play.

[mvp 78]

Being in last place is never overblown. Winning a WS in 2018 did not make it all right for 2020, and 2022 to happen.

 

They had 78 wins. They were a below average but not miserable team. If they were in the AL West or Central, they would have been in 3rd place.

[mvp 78]

I have had the same thought. Trades often involve positions of depth.

 

I'd also keep Rafaela because he's already the system's best defensive player. Maybe he won't have a repeat Mookie extra base hit season, but good defense doesn't go into slumps (and having solid D is the quickest way for pro teams to regain respectability). I also think he'll be in Boston sooner than most predict, depending on how much infield Kike has to play.

 

Did JBJ's defense outweigh his poor offense every year? I vaguely remember trade JBJ threads popping up annually around these parts.

[Old Red]

They had 78 wins. They were a below average but not miserable team. If they were in the AL West or Central, they would have been in 3rd place.

 

Moon has brought this company line up more than once, and if that’s how you want to look at things, and it makes you feel better fine, but to me they were a losing team, and that’s how I look at it.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Old Red

[mvp 78]

Moon has brought this company line up more than once, and if that’s how you want to look at things, and it makes you feel better fine, but to me they were a losing team, and that’s how I look at it.

 

How is it a company line? It's reality. Go look at the standings. Were you this upset at the 1987 Red Sox who had the same exact record?

[Old Red]

How is it a company line? It's reality. Go look at the standings. Were you this upset at the 1987 Red Sox who had the same exact record?

 

A losing record is a losing record, and that is a fact, and a reality, and anything else you want to call it is it not? Like I said if it’s fine for you to look at things your way then go for it, but I just look at it another way, which is fine for me.

[Bellhorn04]

A losing record is a losing record, and that is a fact, and a reality, and anything else you want to call it is it not? Like I said if it’s fine for you to look at things your way then go for it, but I just look at it another way, which is fine for me.

 

A losing record can be 80-82, or the 1962 Mets 40-120.

 

Some see differences in the two.

[Old Red]

A losing record can be 80-82, or the 1962 Mets 40-120.

 

Some see differences in the two.

 

So if you want to say the 2022 team was not as bad as the 2020 team then fine, but it’s still a losing team. Going with the glass just isn’t as empty.

[mvp 78]

A losing record is a losing record, and that is a fact, and a reality, and anything else you want to call it is it not? Like I said if it’s fine for you to look at things your way then go for it, but I just look at it another way, which is fine for me.

You even said yourself that what went on was because of injuries and underperformance so the team must not have been THAT bad. Sounds like you shouldn't even be too mad at Bloom!

[moonslav59]

It all depends on one's definition of "worth it." If you asked a hundred Red Sox fans at the end of the '21 regular season if they thought signing Kike Hernandez for $14 million after he hit .250 was worth it, what do you think the majority would say? What if you asked them after the postseason, when he hit .408 with four doubles, one triple and five homers in 11 games?

 

Kike had a great second half to 2021- not just the playoffs. He was clearly worth $7M.

 

IMO, if the majority of Sox fans thought a 108+ OPS with GG-type defense isn't worth $7M, I'd say I don't care what they think.

 

He and Dalbec just about carried the team in July and August. Kike had some big hits in September, too.

 

Kike hit .876 after June 27th (73 games). I think the recency affect would have given him a favorable vote, even before his playoff heroics.