2023 Free Agents

[moonslav59]

I never said that, but there's no point in arguing how good the Astros' bullpen is now, or that they are great in finding, signing and developing international starting pitchers, young star replacements like Tucker and Pena, and minor league trade targets like Yordan.

 

The Red Sox need to do all those things to narrow the gap, but which area to improve upon is the quickest route to returning to respectability?

 

I totally agree.

 

I think they have attempted to fix the prospect pipeline, and have seemingly been stepping up their international acquisition game to where it was years ago. It's all speculative on how well they have done, but on paper, we are now at the point where was can expect several prospects to get significant playing time not just in 2023 but also each year afterwards. That has not been true for about 5 years.

 

Player development improvement will take time to judge if we have improved.

 

Identifying and acquiring prospects or younger players that become studs like the Astros did with Yordan and we did with Papi years ago is another area we can only wait and see.

 

Bloom did find Whitlock and maybe Schreiber and Refsnyder will extend their plus play and join Whitlock as savvy acquisitions.

 

I'm optimistic about our direction back to meaningfulness. I may be in the minority. I expected it to take some time, and I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of DD prospects that upped their expectations and will be helping the team in the next few years- hopefully.

[moonslav59]

Here's the other scenario, which makes every bit as much sense, IMHO:

 

1) The Red Sox didn't want to pay above a certain amount, and they didn't think Mookie would accept that amount.

2) By trading him before 2020 they got some talent for him, and they removed a $27 million salary obligation and were able to get under the tax threshold by getting the Dodgers to also take on $15 million a year for Price.

 

It's my belief that if we were able to extend Betts at more than our first offer, we'd have traded other salary, instead. Who knows what our roster would have looked like had we gone down that path.

 

IMO, cuts to the budget were coming- somehow- someway- somewhere.

[Hugh2]

Here's the other scenario, which makes every bit as much sense, IMHO:

 

1) The Red Sox didn't want to pay above a certain amount, and they didn't think Mookie would accept that amount.

2) By trading him before 2020 they got some talent for him, and they removed a $27 million salary obligation and were able to get under the tax threshold by getting the Dodgers to also take on $15 million a year for Price.

 

Again, that's just conjecture, as is my stance.....but at least there is some supporting evidence in the rumor mill that Mookie did not want to stay here. I know it's a tough pill for Sox fans to swallow but the reality is I think Betts just did not want to stay here. So hypothetically it may make just as much sense but there's a lot more evidence that the former is true.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mookie-betts-says-he-doesnt-regret-turning-down-300-million-offer-from-red-sox/

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/dodgers/news/dodgers-mookie-betts-reveals-why-he-turned-down-red-sox-contract-extension

 

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2020/07/mookie-betts-contract-if-boston-red-sox-had-given-him-similar-deal-would-he-have-re-signed-its-a-very-valid-question-he-says.html

[Bellhorn04]

Again, that's just conjecture, as is my stance.....but at least there is some supporting evidence in the rumor mill that Mookie did not want to stay here. I know it's a tough pill for Sox fans to swallow but the reality is I think Betts just did not want to stay here. So hypothetically it may make just as much sense but there's a lot more evidence that the former is true.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mookie-betts-says-he-doesnt-regret-turning-down-300-million-offer-from-red-sox/

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/dodgers/news/dodgers-mookie-betts-reveals-why-he-turned-down-red-sox-contract-extension

 

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2020/07/mookie-betts-contract-if-boston-red-sox-had-given-him-similar-deal-would-he-have-re-signed-its-a-very-valid-question-he-says.html

 

I see nothing there indicating he didn't want to stay in Boston for the right deal.

 

One of these mentions the earlier $200 million extension offer that he said, on record, he came very close to accepting.

[Hugh2]

I see nothing there indicating he didn't want to stay in Boston for the right deal.

 

One of these mentions the earlier $200 million extension offer that he said, on record, he came very close to accepting.

 

Come one man, that's still a mountain more of evidence than your theory. We see what we want to see, Sox made three contract offers to Betts, and he gave every indication he wanted to go to FA.

 

Again, and again, I think this is the case of us fans seeing what we want to see and putting our fingers over our ears and going "la la la la la la la la" Betts was gone, Betts was never going to sign an extension here, maybe the Sox could have signed him in FA but they would have had to top 12/365 at the very least because we know LA would have offered that.

[Hugh2]

And what is the right deal? if he preferred to not play in Boston the right deal could have been 450. Maybe it was 400, which were his demands.

 

I mean if someone says "sure I'll stay here for the right deal give me a billion dollars" I mean come on. 300 million was a very reasonable offer by the Sox which at the very least negates the false narrative they didn't try to sign him to an extension.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

I'm optimistic about our direction back to meaningfulness. I may be in the minority. I expected it to take some time, and I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of DD prospects that upped their expectations and will be helping the team in the next few years- hopefully.

 

I also expect top prospects that were signed as teenagers to be in Boston in two or three years. For the best ones, as their bodies and minds continue to mature with experience, there will be no holding them back (bar injury or another pandemic).

 

And I don't necessarily mean U.S. high schoolers liker Mayer and Yorke, who need the game reps, but internationals like Bleis, Ravelo, Perales, etc. These are guys whose entire job is baseball...

 

Bogaerts and Devers made it to the majors when they were 20, called up by good teams. For bad teams, a youthful infusion can provide hope for the future for fans, and a less-than-pennant-race-stress transition.

[Hugh2]

I also expect top prospects that were signed as teenagers to be in Boston in two or three years. For the best ones, as their bodies and minds continue to mature with experience, there will be no holding them back (bar injury or another pandemic).

 

And I don't necessarily mean U.S. high schoolers liker Mayer and Yorke, who need the game reps, but internationals like Bleis, Ravelo, Perales, etc. These are guys whose entire job is baseball...

 

Bogaerts and Devers made it to the majors when they were 20, called up by good teams. For bad teams, a youthful infusion can provide hope for the future, and a less-than-pennant-race-stress transition.

 

That's top of the top prospects. Reaching the majors at 21 is no easy feat, and there are plenty of all stars who didn't reach the majors until after then. Devers and Bogery were also international guys who started their pro careers at 16.

[mvp 78]

Not under Bloom, love him or hate him, but he leaks almost nothing. But I vaguely remember it reported that the Sox were rumored to have offered him up to $300 million>?!> no?

 

I don't think the leaks were coming from the baseball ops side, it was from the ownership level (aka John Henry, Tom Werner).

[Hugh2]

Sorry, Bogaerts at 17. Devers at 16

[Hugh2]

I don't think the leaks were coming from the baseball ops side, it was from the ownership level (aka John Henry, Tom Werner).

 

I'd believe that. I don't think there are very many "unplanned" leaks within this organization.

[mvp 78]

Also, if you trust Felger& Mazz, they reported that they heard the Sox ultimately caved in and gave Betts what he wanted but he said no. I have heard from other places that Betts ultimately wanted to go to FA. There's a lot of evidence Betts didn't want to resign here....something some Sox fans may never accept and/or get over.

 

They are the yahoos.

[Bellhorn04]

Come one man, that's still a mountain more of evidence than your theory. We see what we want to see, Sox made three contract offers to Betts, and he gave every indication he wanted to go to FA.

 

Again, and again, I think this is the case of us fans seeing what we want to see and putting our fingers over our ears and going "la la la la la la la la" Betts was gone, Betts was never going to sign an extension here, maybe the Sox could have signed him in FA but they would have had to top 12/365 at the very least because we know LA would have offered that.

 

Hugh, their offers topped out at $300 mill. We know that was below what he could get on the open market. It's not like he turned down $360 mill.

[Hugh2]

They are the yahoos.

 

Yeah but it was reported by Lou too, and I trust Lou.

[mvp 78]

And what is the right deal? if he preferred to not play in Boston the right deal could have been 450. Maybe it was 400, which were his demands.

 

I mean if someone says "sure I'll stay here for the right deal give me a billion dollars" I mean come on. 300 million was a very reasonable offer by the Sox which at the very least negates the false narrative they didn't try to sign him to an extension.

 

Not that reasonable if another team wanted to give him 20% more.

[mvp 78]

I'd believe that. I don't think there are very many "unplanned" leaks within this organization.

 

They are very planned. Grossly planned sometimes.

[mvp 78]

My opinion changes daily, but my new current offseason wish list includes: Senga/Correa

 

Senga instead of Eovaldi.

 

Correa instead of Bogey and an OFer?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That's top of the top prospects. Reaching the majors at 21 is no easy feat, and there are plenty of all stars who didn't reach the majors until after then. Devers and Bogery were also international guys who started their pro careers at 16.

 

Bleis and Perales signed when they were 16, Ravelo 17.

[Hugh2]

Bleis and Perales signed when they were 16, Ravelo 17.

 

Most IFA guys sign when they’re 16. Devers is an exception not a norm

[moonslav59]

notin, your man crush dude, Elieser Hernandez, was just dealt to the Mets.

[notin]

notin, your man crush dude, Elieser Hernandez, was just dealt to the Mets.

 

I know. Moment of silence as Hernandez gets to see MLB from the perspective of a whole new injured list…

[Deja Doh]

We really need to go after Judge. Let Xander go.

[Hugh2]

We really need to go after Judge. Let Xander go.

 

In a world where money doesn’t matter Judge would be my #1 target. Unfortunately we don’t live in that world.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

More likely Bloom targets: Cody Bellinger and Joey Gallo, both Gold Glove outfielders.

 

Here are some 162-game averages from baseball-ref:

Bellinger (6 years) -- 33 HR, 92 RBI, .248 BA, .332 OBP, .819 OPS, 150 Ks (23.2% K-rate)

Gallo (8 years) -- 38 HR, 83 RBI, .199 BA, .325 OBP, .794 OPS, 226 Ks (37.3% K-rate)

Both are coming off a couple serious down years, but Bellinger at 26 may be a better risk to rebound than Gallo, who turned 29 today. Bellinger is also a fast baserunner, with double figures in stolen bases in four seasons; Gallo doesn't run ever... this should be a factor with the new speed rules.

 

That said, if Gallo costs $1 dollar less than Bellinger, who do you think Bloom signs?

[Old Red]

More likely Bloom targets: Cody Bellinger and Joey Gallo, both Gold Glove outfielders.

 

Here are some 162-game averages from baseball-ref:

Bellinger (6 years) -- 33 HR, 92 RBI, .248 BA, .332 OBP, .819 OPS, 150 Ks (23.2% K-rate)

Gallo (8 years) -- 38 HR, 83 RBI, .199 BA, .325 OBP, .794 OPS, 226 Ks (37.3% K-rate)

Both are coming off a couple serious down years, but Bellinger at 26 may be a better risk to rebound than Gallo, who turned 29 today. Bellinger is also a fast baserunner, with double figures in stolen bases in four seasons; Gallo doesn't run ever... this should be a factor with the new speed rules.

 

That said, if Gallo costs $1 dollar less than Bellinger, who do you think Bloom signs?

 

Let’s go get Bellinger to play CF, and then bring Renfroe back to play RF, and Dugy can go back to LF. Sounds like a plan to me, and the Red Sox love reclamation projects.

[notin]

One guy I totally missed as a free agent is Carlos Estevez. He should be near the top off of the priority list…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

One guy I totally missed as a free agent is Carlos Estevez. He should be near the top off of the priority list…

 

... comes from a hockey family -- his brother coached the Mighty Ducks.

[Hugh2]

I’m going to go cryogenically freeze myself now. Can someone wake me when the off-season starts???

[notin]

Let’s go get Bellinger to play CF, and then bring Renfroe back to play RF, and Dugy can go back to LF. Sounds like a plan to me, and the Red Sox love reclamation projects.

 

So… you pass on Bogaerts?

[notin]

More likely Bloom targets: Cody Bellinger and Joey Gallo, both Gold Glove outfielders.

 

Here are some 162-game averages from baseball-ref:

Bellinger (6 years) -- 33 HR, 92 RBI, .248 BA, .332 OBP, .819 OPS, 150 Ks (23.2% K-rate)

Gallo (8 years) -- 38 HR, 83 RBI, .199 BA, .325 OBP, .794 OPS, 226 Ks (37.3% K-rate)

Both are coming off a couple serious down years, but Bellinger at 26 may be a better risk to rebound than Gallo, who turned 29 today. Bellinger is also a fast baserunner, with double figures in stolen bases in four seasons; Gallo doesn't run ever... this should be a factor with the new speed rules.

 

That said, if Gallo costs $1 dollar less than Bellinger, who do you think Bloom signs?

 

In the last 3 seasons, Bellinger has an OPS+ of 74 and 3 DRS. In the same timeframe, Gallo has an OPS+ of 101 and 32 DRS.

 

At $1 less, Gallo is a steal among steals. At $5-7mill more, he’s still the right choice…