8/31 SOX @ Twins 7:40PM ET

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

maybe he is cora.

 

lol!

[moonslav59]

Scary win, but fun!

[a700hitter]

Maybe he is Cora.

Even Cora knows that he is doing a terrible job.

[Maxbialystock]

Max, give a baseball explanation as to why Devers cannot adjust his approach at the plate to actually hit the f'ing ball . This has been a full month of misery for him and the team wherein he looks foolish. Does he not respond to coaching ? Is he stupid? Is he the definition of insanity .....you know ?? Talking to yourself at the plate when you continually mess up does not lead to big paydays, except from fools like Arte Moreno, who is now selling anyway.

 

Devers has an issue and needs to be coached out of it whether that includes sitting for a week or getting his mind clear. He will not fix this on his own, that's clear. Slumps for 2 -3 weeks happen but a month of garbage AB's hurts everyone, none more than Raffy.

 

Ortiz had at least one slump worse and longer than this one and was a lot more experienced and ended up in the HOF. These days they have all kinds of video, computer analysis, etc. Plus of course the Sox have had at least 3 days off this month.

 

I just think Raffy's very idiosyncratic swing might be hard to analyze and fix. He has terrific hand-eye coordination and relies on that more than a disciplined approach to hitting. He is the polar opposite of someone like Ted Williams--or JDM for that matter.

 

But, since we're on that topic. Matt Barnes is having an absolutely horrible season, fully as bad as the last of last year when he didn't play in the postseason. So they put him on the IL for 2 months, and in the month he's been back his ERA is a decent 3.18 in 11 appearances and 12.2 innings, 2 holds, 2 saves, and 1 blown save. Tonight I thought he looked pretty scared, but he got the job done.

[Maxbialystock]

No, if Cora was his father , his name would be MaZbialystokZ

 

Since you asked, Cora and I have absolutely nothing in common. But, unlike the rest of you, I don't have the memories of gnats. Cora managed this team to the best season the Sox ever had. Yup, he had the players, but there were tons of games in which he made the right moves. Then MLB kicked him out for a season--damaged goods. Plus John Henry has never been reluctant to dump managers he thinks aren't hacking it.

 

But guess what? Without Cora the Sox absolutely stunk in 2020. And what happened in 2021 with Cora back--a nice 92 game season and a terrific postseason in which--and I can't say this too often--HE HAD NO FREAKING CLOSER AND THE SOX NEVER GOT A SAVE BUT DID GET ONE BLOWN SAVE IN THE SIXTH INNING OF A GAME SALE STARTED AND LASTED 2.2 INNING.

 

You guys remember nothing. Do I also need to recite all the freaking injuries this year or that the Sox team ERA is 14th of 15 teams in the AL?

[vegasbob]

Since you asked, Cora and I have absolutely nothing in common. But, unlike the rest of you, I don't have the memories of gnats. Cora managed this team to the best season the Sox ever had. Yup, he had the players, but there were tons of games in which he made the right moves. Then MLB kicked him out for a season--damaged goods. Plus John Henry has never been reluctant to dump managers he thinks aren't hacking it.

 

But guess what? Without Cora the Sox absolutely stunk in 2020. And what happened in 2021 with Cora back--a nice 92 game season and a terrific postseason in which--and I can't say this too often--HE HAD NO FREAKING CLOSER AND THE SOX NEVER GOT A SAVE BUT DID GET ONE BLOWN SAVE IN THE SIXTH INNING OF A GAME SALE STARTED AND LASTED 2.2 INNING.

 

You guys remember nothing. Do I also need to recite all the freaking injuries this year or that the Sox team ERA is 14th of 15 teams in the AL?

 

I do appreciate your reasoned replies and rational debate. Here is one thing I do remember : Chris Sale has not done one useful thing for this team since he struck out Manny Machado in a sympathy appearance in the wonderful , Cora led 2018 season. This money burner better show up ready to pitch effectively in 2023 . I actually do have some sympathy for Matt Barnes. He has had confidence and execution issues for over a year. You noted that he looked scared. He was sweating bullets, but a win/save is just that no matter how achieved. It's a results business. They print it in the paper and on-line every day.

[Old Red]

Cora really sucks as a manager. Even the Twins' announcers are asking why there was no pinch runner.

 

Not running for JD cost the team a run, and shouldn’t be defended in any way. No coaches, or Cora could see that?WOW!

[Old Red]

Since you asked, Cora and I have absolutely nothing in common. But, unlike the rest of you, I don't have the memories of gnats. Cora managed this team to the best season the Sox ever had. Yup, he had the players, but there were tons of games in which he made the right moves. Then MLB kicked him out for a season--damaged goods. Plus John Henry has never been reluctant to dump managers he thinks aren't hacking it.

 

But guess what? Without Cora the Sox absolutely stunk in 2020. And what happened in 2021 with Cora back--a nice 92 game season and a terrific postseason in which--and I can't say this too often--HE HAD NO FREAKING CLOSER AND THE SOX NEVER GOT A SAVE BUT DID GET ONE BLOWN SAVE IN THE SIXTH INNING OF A GAME SALE STARTED AND LASTED 2.2 INNING.

 

You guys remember nothing. Do I also need to recite all the freaking injuries this year or that the Sox team ERA is 14th of 15 teams in the AL?

 

Max, calm down,and have a Gansett.

[jad]

Max, calm down,and have a Gansett.

 

I don't miss Gansett, but I sure miss their ads. Call me a taxi.

[Bellhorn04]

Since you asked, Cora and I have absolutely nothing in common. But, unlike the rest of you, I don't have the memories of gnats. Cora managed this team to the best season the Sox ever had. Yup, he had the players, but there were tons of games in which he made the right moves. Then MLB kicked him out for a season--damaged goods. Plus John Henry has never been reluctant to dump managers he thinks aren't hacking it.

 

But guess what? Without Cora the Sox absolutely stunk in 2020. And what happened in 2021 with Cora back--a nice 92 game season and a terrific postseason in which--and I can't say this too often--HE HAD NO FREAKING CLOSER AND THE SOX NEVER GOT A SAVE BUT DID GET ONE BLOWN SAVE IN THE SIXTH INNING OF A GAME SALE STARTED AND LASTED 2.2 INNING.

 

You guys remember nothing. Do I also need to recite all the freaking injuries this year or that the Sox team ERA is 14th of 15 teams in the AL?

 

I'm with ya, Max. And I stay out of game threads because guys are so mean to Cora.

[Bellhorn04]

As far as not running for JD, from what I've seen the standard managerial practice there is not to pinch run until the guy gets to second base.

[Old Red]

As far as not running for JD, from what I've seen the standard managerial practice there is not to pinch run until the guy gets to second base.

 

This was the 9th inning in a 1 run ballgame. No excuse to wait for a runner to get to second base.

[Bellhorn04]

This was the 9th inning in a 1 run ballgame. No excuse to wait for a runner to get to second base.

 

It's not an excuse. It's a percentage play. I've seen it done that way many times (waiting till the runner gets to second).

[moonslav59]

It's not an excuse. It's a percentage play. I've seen it done that way many times (waiting till the runner gets to second).

 

The idea is that JD might get up to bat again, later in the game, and you want to keep your bench ready and stocked for more important situations that may arise, later.

 

It's a trade off.

 

This situation was certainly a "close call," but I do think most managers would not have PR, there. However, as badly as JD is hitting, that should factor in, too.

 

I don't think Cora's call rises to the level of harsh criticism- not that anyone is saying it was unforgivable.

[Bellhorn04]

The idea is that JD might get up to bat again, later in the game, and you want to keep your bench ready and stocked for more important situations that may arise, later.

 

It's a trade off.

 

That's exactly it.

 

The funny thing is I remember a number of times when Ortiz was pinch run for late in a game, and it came back to haunt us, and fans would heap abuse on the manager for it.

 

It can be a thankless job.

 

One thing I'm sure of is that Cora was not snoozing on the play, it was a conscious decision.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm with ya, Max. And I stay out of game threads because guys are so mean to Cora.

 

Thanks. I overlooked 2019, which was probably why DD got fired. Sox went from 108-54 in 2018 to 84-78 the very next season. Everyone on Talksox went ape especially after the starters mostly pitched fewer innings in ST and the Sox started the season with an unprecedented 11 game west coast road trip on which they went 3-8. The lineup still had all those good hitters--Raffy (OPS vastly improved to .919), Bogey, Mookie, JDM, Beni, JBJ (OPS .738 with 21 dingers), Vazquez (.798), Moreland (.785). But the rotation was a shambles. ERod was the ace, 19-6 with an ERA of 3.81, but Porcello's ERA was 5.52, Sale 4.40, Price 4.28 (on 9 starts), Eovaldi 5.99 (on 12 starts).

 

Last night the two big "fire Cora" points seemed to be not starting Arroyo and not pinch running for JDM in the 9th. To be perfectly honest, I have no quarrel with either point. Indeed, they are the stuff of game threads--and in this case good stuff.

 

The problem is that the boobirds who post cite each instance as overwhelming evidence Cora is clueless and should be fired.

 

As for Arroyo, I like him too, but at 2b, SS, or even 3b, but those slots are occupied by three of the Sox best players/hitters, and two of them, Story and Bogey, delivered last night. So did JDM. When we knew Story was about to return, I opined that maybe Arroyo could play 1b, but that was probably too risky at this point and with no prep for Arroyo. Plus, and the boobirds have all dismissed this simple fact as irrelevant, the Sox won the game by scoring 6 runs. Leaving Arroyo out and Devers in was not a bad decision.

 

Pinch running for JDM in the 9th made sense. My guess is that Cora wanted him on 2d base before doing that. Watching the replay, I'm not sure a pinch runner would have scored from 1b because that ball was fielded cleanly and quickly, and the throw to the infield arrived about the time JDM hit 3b. I would like to argue that JDM could have come to bat again in extra innings, but with this bullpen I think that was very unlikely. However, the Sox won the game while scoring 6 runs.

 

The boobirds also left out something about Barnes. I think all of us noticed he was not himself, maybe scared silly. But he did get the GIDP and the save right after--wait for it--Cora, not the pitching coach but Cora--went out to talk to him. He probably said something like: "just throw the dang ball and try to throw strikes. This is what you do. Forget all the other bs." Barnes threw two freaking fastballs, both near the middle of the plate--and by some miracle got the GIDP and a save. And the Sox won the game, which on this game thread has been seen as absolutely irrelevant. Barnes still stinks, and Cora should be fired.

 

Managers are hired to be fired. I know that. But I like this guy. He is in his 4th season--2018, 2019, 2021, and 2022--and before this season he had 3 out of 3 winning seasons and two really brilliant postseasons (2018 and 2021). The Sox were absolutely awful in the truncated season, 2020, when Cora was rightfully banned from baseball because of stealing signals at Houston. So, once he'd done his time in coventry, Cora was rehired by an owner who in the past has never hesitated to fire managers. This season, with a team ERA that's next to the worst in the AL, the Sox still have a shot at .500 even though the postseason is very unlikely.

 

A further word on the pitching. Much has been made on Talksox this year of Cora' presumed imbecilic failure to put the right guy in as the closer. As I've said before, one of my favorite Sox players ever was Uehara, he was at his best in the 2013 postseason. I like great closers. Kimbrel in 2018 was about as good as Uehara, but relied on an upper 90's fastball and big breaking knuckle curve--Uehara had a slow fast ball and a splitter. In the 2018 regular season Kimbrel had 42 freaking saves with an ERA of 2.74. However, in that glorious postseason when the Sox whipped the Yankees 3 games to 1, the Astros 4 games to 1, and the Dodgers 4 games to 1, Kimbrel's ERA was 5.91 (!!!!!!!). He still got 6 saves because his manager knew when to leave him in despite appalling evidence to the contrary.

[Maxbialystock]

Max, calm down,and have a Gansett.

 

That's typical when you can't think of an intelligent response.

[moonslav59]

Nice post, Max. Lots of truth, there.

[jad]

That's typical when you can't think of an intelligent response.

 

Max, when a guy tries to defuse an argument like Old Red just did, why not just go with it instead of trying to prolong bad feelings.

[Maxbialystock]

Max, when a guy tries to defuse an argument like Old Red just did, why not just go with it instead of trying to prolong bad feelings.

 

A fair point. The argument isn't really about any moves Cora made or didn't make in this game. This is, after all, a game thread.

 

It's really about the incessant drumbeat in every game thread that Cora is incompetent and should be fired. I'm getting tired of it as are others.

 

I have provided compelling evidence--which none of the boobirds has challenged--on why Cora will be back next year. Simply put, in four seasons, he managed the best season/team in Sox history, then had a down season (but a winning season) when the pitching fell off, then had to leave MLB (justifiably) for a shortened season in which the Sox really were terrible, than came back for 2021 and a splendid postseason, and is now trying to get to .500 with the 2d worst pitching staff in the AL.

 

So, if you and the boobirds want me to stop, you have three easy options: 1) stop reading my posts; 2) stop the incessant drumbeat on firing Cora--I have no objection to discussions/arguments about whether any move was good or bad--or 3) address the larger issue of Cora's overall competence over five seasons (one of which he missed).

Edited September 1, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[vegasbob]

A fair point. The argument isn't really about any moves Cora made or didn't make in this game. This is, after all, a game thread.

 

It's really about the incessant drumbeat in every game thread that Cora is incompetent and should be fired. I'm getting tired of it as are others.

 

I have provided compelling evidence--which none of the boobirds has challenged--on why Cora will be back next year. Simply put, in four seasons, he managed the best season/team in Sox history, then had a down season (but a winning season) when the pitching fell off, then had to leave MLB (justifiably) for a shortened season in which the Sox really were terrible, than came back for 2021 and a splendid postseason, and is now trying to get to .500 with the 2d worst pitching staff in the AL.

 

So, if you and the boobirds want me to stop, you have three easy options: 1) stop reading my posts; 2) stop the incessant drumbeat on firing Cora--I have no objection to discussions/arguments about whether any move was good or bad--or 3) address the larger issue of Cora's overall competence over five seasons (one of which he missed).

 

You are certainly welcome and entitled to continue voicing your opinions. I think that AC going out to my fav Matt Barnes last night and getting all up in him with energy and advice was one of the first times Alex showed his stuff . It was more than welcome, and displayed some competitive attitude. I think many of the negative comments this season have emanated from the TV images of Cora hanging on the dugout rail as if he 85 years old, the nonchalant reactions to incredibly poor plays by his guys and the tired responses in interviews of "We have to get better". Well, no kidding AC, but show some fire about it like you did with Barnes. A player's manager surrounded by capable veterans ( 2018?) is a different personality than one with a rookie laden, patchwork injury team.

 

And yes, I know the preferred method of "counseling" towards better performance is to do it in private behind closed doors. Occasionally, you need to show the guys a serious rip session to get their attention, particularly when many here have consigned the rest of the season to the draft dumpster upgrade.

[jad]

A fair point. The argument isn't really about any moves Cora made or didn't make in this game. This is, after all, a game thread.

 

It's really about the incessant drumbeat in every game thread that Cora is incompetent and should be fired. I'm getting tired of it as are others.

 

I have provided compelling evidence--which none of the boobirds has challenged--on why Cora will be back next year. Simply put, in four seasons, he managed the best season/team in Sox history, then had a down season (but a winning season) when the pitching fell off, then had to leave MLB (justifiably) for a shortened season in which the Sox really were terrible, than came back for 2021 and a splendid postseason, and is now trying to get to .500 with the 2d worst pitching staff in the AL.

 

So, if you and the boobirds want me to stop, you have three easy options: 1) stop reading my posts; 2) stop the incessant drumbeat on firing Cora--I have no objection to discussions/arguments about whether any move was good or bad--or 3) address the larger issue of Cora's overall competence over five seasons (one of which he missed).

 

I agree: the anti-Cora sentiment is just today's version of the constant "Fran-coma" b.s. which wasn't really funny the first time it came up, much less the 1000x. But everyone has their target in a season like this: some choose Bloom, others Henry, others (myself) the obsession with trading away great players for prospects, others are pissed at contracts, or lack of them, others are Bloom or bust apologists. F*ck it. What we think doesn't matter. I have enough people who think I'm an a-hole in life; I don't need more of them on a sports forum. That's what's so great about Eck; he talks off the cuff the same way we do. Only he does it in an amusing, professional, and appealing way. We alas lack his skill